Morals vs. Religious Beliefs

[JohnCU]

I got into this discussion the other night with my friends, thought I'd throw it to ATOT. We were talking about religion and I was talking about all the Christians I know who are supposed to be the carriers of God's message and all that mess (these are the people with bible verses in their AIM profiles and the ones who are always referencing to the bible or some other biblical allusion), yet they are some of the most hateful, meanest people I've ever met! I got to thinking about all the Christians who have been saved and "supposedily" accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts, but they don't practice what they are talking about!

They talk about the love of Jesus and all that, but they treat all their fellow human beings like total crap. The problem is, according to their beliefs, these people will go to Heaven. What about Agnostics or Athiests who are some of the nicest, most astounding people on the face of the earth? Well, they will go to hell. That doesn't make any sense to me! Why should people who believe in God but are hateful go to Heaven while people who have trouble believing but are some of utmost citizens in society go to hell?

I'm not saying all Athiests are nice (most of the ones I've met are) nor am I saying all Christians are hateful hypocrits, but its just that so many people judge a person on their religious beliefs. Like, in my small town where everyone goes to church, an Athiest would be cast out immediately and probably most of the town wouldn't associate with him or her. But why? If this person is morally straight, ethical, and carries a strong sense of integrity, what's the fvcking problem? Just because they aren't Christian doesn't mean they are bad.

 

[Yzzim]

They talk about the love of Jesus and all that, but they treat all their fellow human beings like total crap. The problem is, according to their beliefs, these people will go to Heaven.

Umm...no. That's not how it works. You need to practice what you preach.

This is the exact reason why Christians get a bad rap. Many of them (this is very judgmental, but it needs to be said) are hypocrites and there is no way in hell (pun intended) that they're going to heaven unless they change their ways.
I know that many people on this forum will agree with you and say that all Christians are hypocrites and today it's really starting to look that way. But I promise you there are some true Christians out there somewhere.

 

[pyonir]

This is why i don't tell anyone really that i am an Atheist. Too many presumptions. funny thing is, i have better morals and more integrity than quite a few of the people i met in college, and they were generally devout christians. *shrug* oh well.

 

[xospec1alk]

Im an atheist, so in my mind, the christian hell is totally different from my own beliefs...in fact..i dont believe a heaven or hell exists...so me being me...im not going anywhere after i die...

back to the point, i hate christians because they never or hardly ever practice what they preach...their "morals" are derived from the bible and they dont know how to choose between right and wrong unless its in the bible. i make my own decisions, and i stick to them, because they are mine, and the only thing that affects my morals is me, myself, and i

 

[pyonir]

personally, i could care less if christians practice what they preach. that is their business. i don't hate christians because of it. i hate when they think that my business is theirs and feel the need to push their beliefs on me. that is about the only thing i can think of that bothers me.

otherwise, to each their own. stay out of my business, and i'll do the same.

 

[TNTrulez]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

They talk about the love of Jesus and all that, but they treat all their fellow human beings like total crap. The problem is, according to their beliefs, these people will go to Heaven.

Umm...no. That's not how it works. You need to practice what you preach.

This is the exact reason why Christians get a bad rap. Many of them (this is very judgmental, but it needs to be said) are hypocrites and there is no way in hell (pun intended) that they're going to heaven unless they change their ways.
I know that many people on this forum will agree with you and say that all Christians are hypocrites and today it's really starting to look that way. But I promise you there are some true Christians out there somewhere.

yep

 

[Red Dawn]

back to the point, i hate christians

Oh man you should have never said that. This will just add more fuel to their "We are persecuted" whining.

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

back to the point, i hate christians

Oh man you should have never said that. This will just add more fuel to their "We are persecuted" whining.

haha, yeah i saw that and just shook my head. i don't lump christians into one stereotype by saying i hate all christians, because that is what a lot of christians and others do to atheists, and that bothers me.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

back to the point, i hate christians

Oh man you should have never said that. This will just add more fuel to their "We are persecuted" whining.

Kind of odd...but I don't blame him for saying it.

I know I would be pissed if some guy came up to me saying "You need to be saved!" but then when he gets off his religious high horse he sleeps with his brother's wife and pisses on his brother's mailbox.

Christians are suppose to draw people to Christ by setting a good example. People are suppose to see the love and good that Christians do and say "I want some of that!" Sadly, it just doesn't happen too much these days

 

[Red Dawn]

don't lump christians into one stereotype by saying i hate all christians, because that is what a lot of christians and others do to atheists, and that bothers me.

That's a hell of a lot of people to hate. On top of that there are some mighty fine people why call themselves Christians. Of course they aren't the ones who whine about being persecuted and worry about what others believe. They also don't go around trying to force their beliefs down others throats and they definately don't associate their religious beliefs with patriotism.

 

[vi edit]

Remember. Atheists don't have morals.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Yzzim

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

back to the point, i hate christians

Oh man you should have never said that. This will just add more fuel to their "We are persecuted" whining.

Kind of odd...but I don't blame him for saying it.

I know I would be pissed if some guy came up to me saying "You need to be saved!" but then when he gets off his religious high horse he sleeps with his brother's wife and pisses on his brother's mailbox.

Christians are suppose to draw people to Christ by setting a good example. People are suppose to see the love and good that Christians do and say "I want some of that!" Sadly, it just doesn't happen too much these days

That is unless his brother's wife is Hot! Then I want to be Christian.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

don't lump christians into one stereotype by saying i hate all christians, because that is what a lot of christians and others do to atheists, and that bothers me.

That's a hell of a lot of people to hate. On top of that there are some mighty fine people why call themselves Christians. Of course they aren't the ones who whine about being persecuted and worry about what others believe. They also don't go around trying to force their beliefs down others throats and they definately don't associate their religious beliefs with patriotism.

I'd like to know how people "force their beliefs" on other people. What do they say? How are they doing it?

This is a true question here...I'm not being a smart ass. I don't see myself or my friends force their beliefs on other people....but I haven't really taken a good look at it before.

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

don't lump christians into one stereotype by saying i hate all christians, because that is what a lot of christians and others do to atheists, and that bothers me.

That's a hell of a lot of people to hate. On top of that there are some mighty fine people why call themselves Christians. Of course they aren't the ones who whine about being persecuted and worry about what others believe. They also don't go around trying to force their beliefs down others throats and they definately don't associate their religious beliefs with patriotism.

exactly.

 

[XZeroII]

Actually, you don't have to be a good person to get into heaven (theoretically). The only requirement is that you belive in God and accept the fact that Jesus died to save you. Being nice and such is just a way to make your life easier because people who are nice are typically happier too. This is the way I see it...

 

[AreaCode707]

Many of them (this is very judgmental, but it needs to be said) are hypocrites and there is no way in hell (pun intended) that they're going to heaven unless they change their ways.

Okay, according to Christian theology (religious beliefs), how you act actually doesn't impact your going to heaven, strange as it sounds. See, established by the New Testament, you're either a sinner or you're not, and only people free from sin get into heaven. Impossible right, we're all screw ups. Christians believe that getting into heaven is contingent upon accepting the gift of Christ - that is, that he lived a sinless life, died, taking our deserved punishment, and rose again, conquering death. Salvation, forgiveness of sins, is offered freely to everyone through him.
Now, how Christians act is a different story. You can't, I agree, lump everyone into one pile because "Christians" is a group made up of individuals. I think that if you truly understand the gift of salvation and the message of Christ, you try to live as a servant to others, displaying the joy and peace that is part of the gift of salvation. It's not going to be perfect, obviously, but, as you may have heard said, Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.
That's why I cringe when I hear door-to-door evangelists shouting at people that they're sinners. So? So we all are. I apologize on behalf of my fellow Christians to anyone who's been hurt, insulted, annoyed, or otherwise offended by Christians. We're instructed to leave people alone who aren't interested in hearing our message.

 

[Red Dawn]

This is a true question here...I'm not being a smart ass. I don't see myself or my friends force their beliefs on other people....but I haven't really taken a good look at it before.

Hey like I said, the good Christians/Muslims/Buhdist/Satanist/HIndu's don't.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

This is a true question here...I'm not being a smart ass. I don't see myself or my friends force their beliefs on other people....but I haven't really taken a good look at it before.

Hey like I said, the good Christians/Muslims/Buhdist/Satanist/HIndu's don't.

I suppose it depends on how you're defining "good".

Good as in, they don't talk to you about their beliefs and they hide them. They don't share their beliefs with anyone.

or

Good as in, they truly follow what they believe

 

[Red Dawn]

Good as in, they don't talk to you about their beliefs and they hide them. They don't share their beliefs with anyone.

Those aren't the good, those are the best!

 

[Michael1897]

hypocrisy reigns supreme sadly with a lot of "christians and other devoted peoples" I think it is one thing to believe in something and something completely different in being able to practice your beliefs and radiate your morals b/c of it.

I don't like evangelism either. let people decide for themselves what they want to believe

 

[ScottyB]

Hu? I am a christian and I am not a hateful person. I don't tell people they are going to hell, I follow my own morals I set for myself.

back to the point, i hate christians because they never or hardly ever practice what they preach...their "morals

Isn't that being a hateful person?

 

[Red Dawn]

Quote

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back to the point, i hate christians because they never or hardly ever practice what they preach...their "morals
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Isn't that being a hateful person?

Ignore him, xospec1alk is the Mr.Palco of the Atheists

 

[bassoprofundo]

I think HotChic hit the nail on the head. Everyone of us has sinned and continues to do so on a daily basis, whether or not we're Christian and whether or not we want to sin. The difference in being a Christian is that you've accepted God's forgiveness for your sins and strive not to sin. Among Christians, as in any group of people, there are those who are the real thing and those who are not. There are also those who believe the Bible on an intellectual basis, but it's never quite reached their hearts, if you know what I mean. Those are the ones you'll find being the most hypocritical, hateful, spiteful (and so on). My personal motto is something like this, "You don't have to tell everyone you're a Christian, but don't let them be surprised when they find out." In other words, the way that you treat people and conduct your life will be the biggest witness possible. It will mean more than any number of words you speak. I don't try and cram my beliefs down anyone's throat, but I won't hesitate to tell someone what I believe if asked or if I don't believe that something is right that is affecting me or those I love. I personally feel that it's no one's place to judge another. That responsibility ultimately belongs to God and God alone.

However, having said that and having been a Christian most of my life, I've often been appalled at how those who don't believe the way that I do misuse the word "judge." I've been accused of "judging" people simply by being present at a party but not choosing to engage in some of the activities that I don't feel are right. In such instances, I've haven't said a cross word, given a dirty look or a reprimand, but yet I find out later that others think I'm judging them or better than them. These are people who consider themselves to be among the most open-minded, tolerant, and accepting people, but yet I often find that they "accept" everything but what doesn't fall in with their line of thought. If I'm questioned about my beliefs and explain them, I'm labeled as narrow-minded or hypocritical or accused of "forcing" my beliefs on another. For the record, let's set one thing straight. I can not force anyone to believe something they don't want to believe, and no one can force me to believe something I don't want to believe. Each person is an individual and chooses what to believe on his or her own. I say to anyone who feels like someone is trying to "cram their beliefs down his/her throat" that he/she has a free will. For pete's sake, walk away... Agree to disagree... More often than not, I've found that those who make this accusation aren't truly secure in their own beliefs. I've dealt with numerous other religions and had many try to convince me that their beliefs were correct. I don't have a problem with this. Why should I? Why should I feel threatened if I'm secure in what I believe? If both parties are civilized and don't get belligerent about it, there's no harm done. If you really feel threatened, maybe it's time that you examined why you feel this way and paid more attention to finding out what you really believe.

I've said all this to make this point: Everyone needs to give everyone else a break and stop holding others to some ridiculous standard of perfection, Christian or not. I believe what the Bible says, and every day I try to be more like Christ, but do I even come close? No. That doesn't make me a hypocrite. It just makes me human. Nothing I can do or say will ever make me good enough to deserve God's grace, so I do the best I can and thank him every day that he gives that grace freely whether or not I'm deserving. That's what makes God (and my life) so wonderful.

 

[lebe0024]

Religion says, "be better than the next guy (be more moral, do more things that help humanity), and God will send you to heaven."
The Gospel (different from religion) says, "on your own, you're no better than anybody else. You're identity in Christ is utterly by grace." And if you really understand the Gospel, you'll never be pissed-off and judgemental and self-righteous about anybody else, because you'll have a clear understanding of the grace that God gave you.

 

[lebe0024]

Jonathon Edwards, one of the greatest geniuses this country has ever known, says this about True Christians:
"He hath chosen them as his treasure, as a man chooses out gems from a heap of stones, with this difference, the man finds gems very different from other stones, and therefore chooses. But God chooses them, and therefore they become gems, and very different from others. Mal iii 17 "And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.' "