Moral decisions & our society

ryan256

Platinum Member
Jul 22, 2005
2,525
0
71
The cops running traffic lights thread made me think of this. I was going to post it there but this is likely to spark a whole other discussion of its own.

I believe all of this cops running lights, corporations robbing people blind, stealing a PS3 and substituting a phone book, ect., ect. stems from a problem that I think goes to the very root of our society.
When most of our society is making a moral decision the question is no longer "Is this right or wrong?" The question is "Can I get away with this?" People will do almost anything if they believe they will never get caught.

You agree or disagree?
Discuss
 
Feb 24, 2001
14,550
4
81
Problem is there is no shame in society anymore.

A 16 year old with a baby should be ashamed, not heroes on the front page of the news.
 

E equals MC2

Banned
Apr 16, 2006
2,676
1
0
I disagree with both of the poll options. I also do not think it's 'our society'.

It's human nature. We've been human for thousands of years. Thousands of years of bloodshed politics, war, corruption, peace, war again, jealousy, envy, vying for power, etc. This is all-inclusive of all cultures from Roman empires to Asian kingdoms to Hitler to our world today.

It's just human nature. We naturally want the best for ourselves and sometimes we good totally good selfless deeds, but most of the time we do what's best for us.

So it's not just our society. It's people- just as we have been and will be.
 

ryan256

Platinum Member
Jul 22, 2005
2,525
0
71
Originally posted by: E equals MC2
I disagree with both of the poll options. I also do not think it's 'our society'.

It's human nature. We've been human for thousands of years. Thousands of years of bloodshed politics, war, corruption, peace, war again, jealousy, envy, vying for power, etc. This is all-inclusive of all cultures from Roman empires to Asian kingdoms to Hitler to our world today.

It's just human nature. We naturally want the best for ourselves and sometimes we good totally good selfless deeds, but most of the time we do what's best for us.

So it's not just our society. It's people- just as we have been and will be.

True. Perhaps I should have said 'people' instead of 'our society'.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,136
1,610
126
Some people live by the golden rule.
Other people abuse things and try to get away with as much as possible.

"People" are split between the two.
 

steppinthrax

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2006
3,990
6
81
I?ve thought about this for some time and have made the following conclusions. First, if you look throughout human history, us as humans have made some pretty immoral decisions (i.e. black slavery, holocaust). A lot of people talk about having a conscious is very important and keeps people in check from doing what we consider is ?right?.


But everybody has a different view of what right and wrong is. Some of these become a very laws that govern our society. However, you can take a person with what we consider very moral conscious and make them do wrong. Things they would not do on their own. A good example is the Milgram experiment, (google it). I feel people by themselves have jobs to do in society and of course each of these jobs have priorities.

However, the job that has the absolute priority is self. A good example are the credit card companies. For the longest time these companies had little regulation to do what they have been doing to people today. The executives know there weren?t any laws to prevent this type of behavior and with the amount of money that could be made they went ahead and did the immoral. Giving CC to people they know statistically can?t pay off.

Giving supper high interest rate CC coupled with high credit lines to unemployed poor people. We now are in a world of shit when millions now have these sorts of problems and it affects our economy. We came from animals (evolution) if you look at our ancestors (monkeys) they will fight over a banana till death. How different are we?
 

Flash1969

Golden Member
May 11, 2001
1,784
7
81
I still believe most people have morals. But a lot of people do have that "can I get away with this" mentality. It's quite sad.

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Problem is there is no shame in society anymore.

A 16 year old with a baby should be ashamed, not heroes on the front page of the news.

16 year olds so quick to turn in the hot teacher they have sex with. no balls, no honor. the missed story
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,736
565
126
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Some people live by the golden rule.

Thats me. I gotta screw over those fuckers at least as good as they got me!


:D


I do think most people act good only because of a believe in something higher than themselves, karma, god's judgement, jail time or whatever. The golden rule is just an extension of those concepts.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
The majority of people are stopped from committing crimes because they are afraid of the punishment, not because they know that it is wrong. This is a key problem with people. They are fully willing to do something bad that benefits them if they think they will get away with it.

It is my opinion that 90-95+% of all people think on a punishment or not basis. In my experience, very rarely does someone make choices based solely on right and wrong.

It isn't just society either. It is human nature to be this way. The majority of people are all out to help themselves and maybe their immediate family. This can be at the expense of others if need be. The willingness to harm others as long as it helps your own cause is too prevalent these days.
 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,939
0
76
People in general will have unlimited wants, which might explain why people run up massive credit card debts buying stuff they won't remember buying a year later.

 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Originally posted by: dguy6789
The majority of people are stopped from committing crimes because they are afraid of the punishment, not because they know that it is wrong. This is a key problem with people. They are fully willing to do something bad that benefits them if they think they will get away with it.

It is my opinion that 90-95+% of all people think on a punishment or not basis. In my experience, very rarely does someone make choices based solely on right and wrong.

It isn't just society either. It is human nature to be this way. The majority of people are all out to help themselves and maybe their immediate family. This can be at the expense of others if need be. The willingness to harm others as long as it helps your own cause is too prevalent these days.

I don't think it's so much that people are "willing" to hurt others to advance their own interests. At least not most people. I think it is more like they are just indifferent or apathetic. I think most people would not be inclined do something they know would directly and immediately harm another person, especially when they can witness the suffering of the other individual first-hand and personally. But when it comes to things like littering or stealing from a store, they don't stop to think about how those immoral acts affect others in the community because there is no immediate or directly apparent harm to anybody. They think of it as just risking getting caught or not. They don't stop to think about the broader social, environmental, or economic impacts of their immoral acts. It's the same kinda thing like why people can turn into such assholes when they get behind the wheel of their car or post on ATOT. Yet to your face they might be very nice. We are much less likely to reveal our true natures to people when we are face to face. It's how people behave when they believe that nobody is watching or when they are removed from direct human contact that defines their true character. It's the rare person who truly removes their mask for the world to see. And usually, unfortunately, that person usually is an asshole in my experience.
 

imported_Imp

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2005
9,148
0
0
No distinct line, but generally, people will do whatever if there are no rules. Even the good people who start out "fair" will turn to crap cause if they don't join the fray, they're just screwing themselves.
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
It isn't so much the big things. But things like stealing someone else's parking spot is what I am talking about. Both people need the spot, but by taking it yourself when the other person was waiting for the car to pull out first, you are helping yourself at their expense. It isn't anything major, but the willingness to do it to save yourself some time at another's expense is an attitude that is harmful to society. I completely agree with your last sentence.

A quote I have read somewhere that I like:

"The best index to a person's character is A: How he treats someone who can't do him any good, and B: How he treats someone who can't fight back."
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,506
11,823
136
IME, people in general are a bunch of "takers." Morality, (adherence to a common set of behavior standards) varies over time, but under it all, people will do what they can get away with.
For me, the mark of a person's character is what he/she does when no one is watching. THAT says a lot about the person...MUCH more than what they do in public.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,511
1
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Originally posted by: Imp
No distinct line, but generally, people will do whatever if there are no rules. Even the good people who start out "fair" will turn to crap cause if they don't join the fray, they're just screwing themselves.

You know, you're wrong, not all people will bend their morals. I've been screwed over in the past, but it doesn't make me want to go out and screw other people over. Sure it makes me mad, but by loosing your convictions you loose your self. You are no longer a person you are the mob. I don't care how bad it is, I wont compromise my morals or convictions for a quick advance or for money, because in the end you have to live with yourself.

The Joker from Batman had it right when he said "This town needs an enema" except it should be country. We need to clean all the crap out of our country and work on building a more solid foundation for our society. And Honestly it really all begins with entertainment. IE TV, Music and Movies.
The crap TV shows on now are all about the pretty people, and they are all rich. This makes the impressionable youths of today think that that is what everyones life should be like.
How can parents fight against such a strong influence? If it's not on TV it's in the movies. If it's not in the movies it's in the music with rappers that come from nothing and get millions for shitty music. And if not there, it's from sports where athletes get paid millions of dollars to play a fucking game, and cheat and get caught and nothing happens to them, or like a lot of athletes they are the 1 in a million kid that made it from the street to the pros and all the kids idolize them and that's all they do is play sports hoping to make the shot, and the parents think their kid is the greatest and push them, meanwhile things like an education are secondary.
So I guess it really does boil down to the all mighty dollar and people not being satisfied with what they have and not wanting to actually work hard to achieve. There is a reason the ww2 generation was called the greatest generation.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Originally posted by: ryan256
The cops running traffic lights thread made me think of this. I was going to post it there but this is likely to spark a whole other discussion of its own.

I believe all of this cops running lights, corporations robbing people blind, stealing a PS3 and substituting a phone book, ect., ect. stems from a problem that I think goes to the very root of our society.
When most of our society is making a moral decision the question is no longer "Is this right or wrong?" The question is "Can I get away with this?" People will do almost anything if they believe they will never get caught.

You agree or disagree?
Discuss

there's less stigma with bad things nowadays.

ie:
having a baby @ 16
declaring bankrupcy

it's now all ME ME ME ME and middle finger to what anyone else thinks
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,606
27,935
136
I think most people are moral and will do what they see as right most of the time. However, what people have come to believe is moral is all out of whack, i.e. violence, cruelty, rapacious greed, wanton destruction.
 

bullbert

Senior member
May 24, 2004
718
0
0
[/sarcasm on]
People can not be trusted to make moral decisions. Only Congress is responsible enough to make our moral decisions for us, and Congress continues to work tirelessly to legistlate morality. Thanks God we have Congress to guide us.
[/sarcasm off]
 

bullbert

Senior member
May 24, 2004
718
0
0
Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Some people live by the golden rule.
Other people abuse things and try to get away with as much as possible.

"People" are split between the two.

There are sure a lot of people pissed off about other's morality.

WHICH golden rule is that you reference? Hillary's Golden Rule?

"It is better to be pissed on,
than to be pissed off." -Hillary C, 1992

But then, you only have to look at who she married...
 

flxnimprtmscl

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2003
7,962
2
0
:music:

If consequences dictate
course of action and it
doesn't matter what's right
it's only wrong if you get caught.

:music:

:beer: and :cookie: for whoever gets that.