MOO3 DirectX surface error

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imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Originally posted by: wanderer27
Well, several hours later I've figured out a lot more about GCII.

There's still quite a bit more to investigate and learn, but to me it's just not worth it.

I find myself actually forcing myself to play this game - it's just not that interesting. It's even more of a clickfest than MOO3, and that's hard to even imagine :( One game I was playing (I was several hundred clicks into it) I just had to quit - nothing was going on, it was just next, next ,next, new Tech, next, next . . . .

I have to agree, GC2 wasn't a great game. In fact for me its the reason I started playing MOO3 again.... after all the player made mods became available I was heavily into MOO3...


In fact I keep it on my laptop as its great on the road when you can't guarantee an internet connection
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
Originally posted by: Shivetya
Originally posted by: wanderer27
Well, several hours later I've figured out a lot more about GCII.

There's still quite a bit more to investigate and learn, but to me it's just not worth it.

I find myself actually forcing myself to play this game - it's just not that interesting. It's even more of a clickfest than MOO3, and that's hard to even imagine :( One game I was playing (I was several hundred clicks into it) I just had to quit - nothing was going on, it was just next, next ,next, new Tech, next, next . . . .

I have to agree, GC2 wasn't a great game. In fact for me its the reason I started playing MOO3 again.... after all the player made mods became available I was heavily into MOO3...


In fact I keep it on my laptop as its great on the road when you can't guarantee an internet connection

As long as I don't get the DXSU error I'm fairly happy with it.

I know it was a mess when it first came out and that people were upset by the implementation of things.

It can be a very complex game or a fairly simple one, it all depends on your mood and how deep you want to dig into the details. I still get a bit annoyed at all the armies it likes to build, and more detailed combat would be nice, but it's passable as is.

A bit better AI (Diplomacy) would be nice too - "We're PO'd at you for doing what you're doing", okay, so what am I doing?


I do hope to give GCII another chance someday. Maybe I was expecting too much, or it was just too frustrating not being able to connect the dots as easily as it should have been. From my perspective, I don't see how the game got as high a review as it did just on those issues alone.



 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Gal Civ 2 is pretty much in the civilization style, and I believe civilization DOES have good tutorials, so it's likely people who came from civ 4 had no problem picking up gal civ 2.
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
Originally posted by: Fox5
Gal Civ 2 is pretty much in the civilization style, and I believe civilization DOES have good tutorials, so it's likely people who came from civ 4 had no problem picking up gal civ 2.

I've played the Civ series since inception. GC II may be similar, it's just too hard to tell:

- Already mentioned Starbase and extra Constructor for each upgrade.
- I had -64% approval from Population alone with no explanation I can find as to why - and that's after all the "Happy" buildings are built :(
- If you don't claim the one other inhabitable planet in your starting System within a couple of turns you're stuck with just one planet. Either way you're boxed in within a handful of turns. Boxed in at the beginning of a SPACE game? How absurd!
- Tech descriptions could sure be better. I only get a vague idea of what a lot of them will do.
- I had all these "Trade" bonuses, and yet I couldn't build a Cargo ship to trade, and I had researched a couple Techs relating to Trade. Unless it's pretty deep into the Tech tree (which is crazy), I can't figure this one out.
- Of the four games I've played, two ended by the Altarians (Allies) winning, and the other two I quit out of boredom (one being a few hundred clicks into the game).

In short, I was spending more time fighting the game mechanics than the enemy I was playing.

I wish it had been otherwise I wanted to like the game. For now it's going have to sit on the side a few days until I finish my current MOO3 campaign, and even then I'm not sure if I'll pick it back up yet.

Maybe I'm just getting too old, I've been gaming for nearly 30 years now . . . . senility must be setting in ;)

 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: wanderer27
Originally posted by: Fox5
Gal Civ 2 is pretty much in the civilization style, and I believe civilization DOES have good tutorials, so it's likely people who came from civ 4 had no problem picking up gal civ 2.

I've played the Civ series since inception. GC II may be similar, it's just too hard to tell:

- Already mentioned Starbase and extra Constructor for each upgrade.
- I had -64% approval from Population alone with no explanation I can find as to why - and that's after all the "Happy" buildings are built :(
- If you don't claim the one other inhabitable planet in your starting System within a couple of turns you're stuck with just one planet. Either way you're boxed in within a handful of turns. Boxed in at the beginning of a SPACE game? How absurd!
- Tech descriptions could sure be better. I only get a vague idea of what a lot of them will do.
- I had all these "Trade" bonuses, and yet I couldn't build a Cargo ship to trade, and I had researched a couple Techs relating to Trade. Unless it's pretty deep into the Tech tree (which is crazy), I can't figure this one out.
- Of the four games I've played, two ended by the Altarians (Allies) winning, and the other two I quit out of boredom (one being a few hundred clicks into the game).

In short, I was spending more time fighting the game mechanics than the enemy I was playing.

I wish it had been otherwise I wanted to like the game. For now it's going have to sit on the side a few days until I finish my current MOO3 campaign, and even then I'm not sure if I'll pick it back up yet.

Maybe I'm just getting too old, I've been gaming for nearly 30 years now . . . . senility must be setting in ;)



-Approval has to do with population and taxes. High taxes kill approval, as well as high population. You can build multiple morale buildings. Also, a weak civ also hurts approval, as does an enemy civ with high influence.
Also, 64% approval is not bad. The game is tiered so that population growth occurs differently depending on approval. 100% gives you the highest boost, then there's a range that's like 75% to 99%, then the next range is something like 50% to 74%, then the next range is like 24% to 49%, and anything below 24 goes negative in growth. (could be wrong on the ranges here)

-The hapitable planet thing depends on the map. On the absolute smallest sized map, yes, you really only have the choice on the first planet you find and then it's war time. On the next map size above that, you can usually make a grab for a few planets outside your system, though you may have to outright purchase colony ships rather than let production finish. Each map size increase makes it easier and easier to grab planets, but the computer will make a beeline for the best ones, so it's up to you to do the same, which means purchasing colony ships. On a huge galaxy, you probably won't find yourself boxed in at all. It's often a good idea to ignore the other planet in your starting system and to go find a better one.
The latest expansion alleviates this somewhat by giving each race a planetary environment its best in, which other civs may not be able to settle at all or only with a penalty.

-Tech descriptions suck, insofar as they require an understanding of how the game actually works. There's also too many incremental upgrades.
The latest expansion also fixes this by cleaning up the tech tree, fixing descriptions, and giving each race a unique tech tree.

-Trade ships are easy to build. I think you just need to research instellar trade to get the module. The actual trade ship may require some research into life support and engines as well, but the game boasts an elaborate ship editor which you MUST play with. Even if you don't care for insanely customized ships, the game plays its prebuilt ships with weird tech requirements that makes them useless (takes too long to get) and the built in ships are quickly outdated in engine speed. You're forced into designing your own ships, even if it just consists of double clicking on a hull size, your best engine, and a few weapons.
It's also useful to exploit a cpu's weakness if they research into a certain offensive or defensive tech.

-Well, the altarians winning one was a campaign game, and campaign sucks.
Also, you can't play this game on such an easy difficulty otherwise the computer just rolls over and dies for you. Play on normal or the difficulty 1 above normal and the computer is very beatable, but will wipe you out until you learn how to play. (honestly, they really needed a tutorial on how to do a good start)

And this game is heavy on colonization and trade. You have to colonize aggressively at the start, and trade on most map sizes will contribute a sizable portion of your income, if not most of it. (though you can pick race picks to try to make yourself more self-sufficient, or go combat focused and just survive through conquering)

Also, if you do pick up gal civ 2 again, don't bother with the original game, jump right into the dark avatar expansion, it includes a ton of improvements.
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
Is MOO3 anything like imperium galactica II? Is there ever going to be anything as good as imperium galactica II again?

I really miss that kind of game, real time space combat, real time ground combat, its all pretty simple too but theres some strategy to it. I remember getting crushed in my first and only (since noone played it online) multiplayer game by what i saw as a vastly inferior heavy cruiser fleet, i was wrong lol, i don't remember why but they messed up my iberion battleships real good, ah memories.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Originally posted by: Soviet
Is MOO3 anything like imperium galactica II? Is there ever going to be anything as good as imperium galactica II again?

I really miss that kind of game, real time space combat, real time ground combat, its all pretty simple too but theres some strategy to it. I remember getting crushed in my first and only (since noone played it online) multiplayer game by what i saw as a vastly inferior heavy cruiser fleet, i was wrong lol, i don't remember why but they messed up my iberion battleships real good, ah memories.
No it is not at all like IG2 and there probably wont be anything like it again.
The rights to IG3 gort sold and the company that was going to do it had plans to make a completely different game. After a lot of nonsense it ended up being published as "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident".

I just got done playing Space Empires V, and while it is decent fun, its not anything phenominal. I do like the easy access to buttload of information. Its all organized very well but the game itself is a pain to play. Moving ships and having them do things is a chore, even with the automation. Building up your planets is also a pain, (again, even with the ability to automate it). Your ships and planets both have very limited storage for resources, and you have to waste hardpoints or terrain slots to put in more storage. The ship design is cool, but eventually gets annoying, and combat is uninspired.

I still prefer GC2. I noticed a few folks made points that they were constantly clicking. That can be cured with the simple, yet powerful auto-move and auto-build commands in the game. You can send out massive fleets and expand your bases hundreds of times without clicking constantly. And once you set policy or automation, the game doesnt ingore it or override it, which is the exact opposite of MOO3 and one of the many reasons I wont play it.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
Originally posted by: Soviet
Is MOO3 anything like imperium galactica II? Is there ever going to be anything as good as imperium galactica II again?

I really miss that kind of game, real time space combat, real time ground combat, its all pretty simple too but theres some strategy to it. I remember getting crushed in my first and only (since noone played it online) multiplayer game by what i saw as a vastly inferior heavy cruiser fleet, i was wrong lol, i don't remember why but they messed up my iberion battleships real good, ah memories.

Never played it, but that Star Wars strategy game (empire at war) is a 4x-ish game with real time ground and space combat.
You may also want to check out Sins of a Solar Empire coming out soon.
 

imported_Shivetya

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2005
2,978
1
0
Wasn't the IG series Real time play?

If so I wouldn't have touched it... Real Time and Strategy don't belong in the same sentence
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
Originally posted by: Fox5
Originally posted by: wanderer27
Originally posted by: Fox5
Gal Civ 2 is pretty much in the civilization style, and I believe civilization DOES have good tutorials, so it's likely people who came from civ 4 had no problem picking up gal civ 2.

I've played the Civ series since inception. GC II may be similar, it's just too hard to tell:

- Already mentioned Starbase and extra Constructor for each upgrade.
- I had -64% approval from Population alone with no explanation I can find as to why - and that's after all the "Happy" buildings are built :(
- If you don't claim the one other inhabitable planet in your starting System within a couple of turns you're stuck with just one planet. Either way you're boxed in within a handful of turns. Boxed in at the beginning of a SPACE game? How absurd!
- Tech descriptions could sure be better. I only get a vague idea of what a lot of them will do.
- I had all these "Trade" bonuses, and yet I couldn't build a Cargo ship to trade, and I had researched a couple Techs relating to Trade. Unless it's pretty deep into the Tech tree (which is crazy), I can't figure this one out.
- Of the four games I've played, two ended by the Altarians (Allies) winning, and the other two I quit out of boredom (one being a few hundred clicks into the game).

In short, I was spending more time fighting the game mechanics than the enemy I was playing.

I wish it had been otherwise I wanted to like the game. For now it's going have to sit on the side a few days until I finish my current MOO3 campaign, and even then I'm not sure if I'll pick it back up yet.

Maybe I'm just getting too old, I've been gaming for nearly 30 years now . . . . senility must be setting in ;)



-Approval has to do with population and taxes. High taxes kill approval, as well as high population. You can build multiple morale buildings. Also, a weak civ also hurts approval, as does an enemy civ with high influence.
Also, 64% approval is not bad. The game is tiered so that population growth occurs differently depending on approval. 100% gives you the highest boost, then there's a range that's like 75% to 99%, then the next range is something like 50% to 74%, then the next range is like 24% to 49%, and anything below 24 goes negative in growth. (could be wrong on the ranges here)

-The hapitable planet thing depends on the map. On the absolute smallest sized map, yes, you really only have the choice on the first planet you find and then it's war time. On the next map size above that, you can usually make a grab for a few planets outside your system, though you may have to outright purchase colony ships rather than let production finish. Each map size increase makes it easier and easier to grab planets, but the computer will make a beeline for the best ones, so it's up to you to do the same, which means purchasing colony ships. On a huge galaxy, you probably won't find yourself boxed in at all. It's often a good idea to ignore the other planet in your starting system and to go find a better one.
The latest expansion alleviates this somewhat by giving each race a planetary environment its best in, which other civs may not be able to settle at all or only with a penalty.

-Tech descriptions suck, insofar as they require an understanding of how the game actually works. There's also too many incremental upgrades.
The latest expansion also fixes this by cleaning up the tech tree, fixing descriptions, and giving each race a unique tech tree.

-Trade ships are easy to build. I think you just need to research instellar trade to get the module. The actual trade ship may require some research into life support and engines as well, but the game boasts an elaborate ship editor which you MUST play with. Even if you don't care for insanely customized ships, the game plays its prebuilt ships with weird tech requirements that makes them useless (takes too long to get) and the built in ships are quickly outdated in engine speed. You're forced into designing your own ships, even if it just consists of double clicking on a hull size, your best engine, and a few weapons.
It's also useful to exploit a cpu's weakness if they research into a certain offensive or defensive tech.

-Well, the altarians winning one was a campaign game, and campaign sucks.
Also, you can't play this game on such an easy difficulty otherwise the computer just rolls over and dies for you. Play on normal or the difficulty 1 above normal and the computer is very beatable, but will wipe you out until you learn how to play. (honestly, they really needed a tutorial on how to do a good start)

And this game is heavy on colonization and trade. You have to colonize aggressively at the start, and trade on most map sizes will contribute a sizable portion of your income, if not most of it. (though you can pick race picks to try to make yourself more self-sufficient, or go combat focused and just survive through conquering)

Also, if you do pick up gal civ 2 again, don't bother with the original game, jump right into the dark avatar expansion, it includes a ton of improvements.


Now this is some useful information.

I said I was getting -64% from just Population, I also had something like -36% (not sure on this) from Taxes, and then the positives were for great planet, leader abilities, buildings, and influence. My net approval after dropping taxes from the default to where I was just making money was about 51%.

Right here this seems like a game balance/mechanic error. I have 100% PO'd people from either:

A.) 64% don't like me because of Population and the remaining 36% don't like me because of Taxes.
or
B.) 64 out of 100 don't like me because of Population and 36 out of 100 don't like me because of Taxes - meaning I could be getting a double penalty in some cases.

So, it seems here that one of the strategys would be to starve your people to keep population low. I'm not even sure if this would work, and if it does it sure seems to be counter productive.

On the Map size thing. How long should a typical game last on a large Map as opposed to a small one?

For the Cargo ships, I had the "Cab" part of the ship, but no Pods, Cargo bays, or whatever it is you call them, so building a Cargo ship wasn't really and option.
Since I'm already building Colony ships, Constructors, etc., shouldn't I already have the Engines, Life Support, etc. ?
See, here's something that makes no sense if that's the case, plus I'm not sure I recall seeing those in the Tech tree.

In regards to multiple "Happy" buildings, I pretty much figured you could build duplicates, but wasn't sure if it would make a difference. The other issue with this is that there aren't enough useable planet squares early on to do this, even after researching a couple of planet type improvement Techs.

Seems like there's a lot of hand tying and obsfucation going on in this game. Maybe the problem is that there's too much micro management going on here with a lack of information - that's just too much like my job :)

I do want to thank you for your help and patience.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
It's very difficult to keep the population very happy, especially if you haven't picked a race with bonuses to that area. The 40% to 60% range is generally what you want to aim for, but you can let it drop all the way to ~30% with no penalties (other than a possible revolt if your neighbors are influential).

You keep the population low by not building too many farms. Every world (except your homeworld) starts with a pop cap of 6 billion. The max you want to raise that to is about 20 million or your people will become tragically unhappy. (the actual max is 100 million)

There's also a lot of technologies to improve happiness.
And yes, there aren't a lot of usuable planet squares. Quite often you have to make the choice and start specializing in something.

I think you start with the colony ship module from the start. You have to research the trade module, comes with the first or 2nd level of trade tech.

Engines and life support are in the tech tree. You probably need the first or 2nd tech level of both before you can really build any ships. You do start with some level of life support, but it only allows you to build the initial ships.

The game could really use a clearly laid out tech tree listing requirements and such. It may be in there somewhere, but I haven't seen it, I basically had to learn what techs beget what through trial and error. (though the game does tell you upon finishing research what that tech benefitted, and how many more techs are needed)
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
Originally posted by: watty
so... how is the direct x surface error fixed?

There are a couple of causes for this that I've found, the worst being Anti-Virus programs.

For this, either disable your AV program while playing, or have it ignore *.mob files (MOO3 data).

A tool to have handy is the MOO3Installcheck program:

http://www.moo3.at/files/various.php

Run this in your MOO3 directory to check the files for corruption. If you find a corrupt file you can generally just copy the same file from the CD over the corrupted one and you'll be fine.

 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
Originally posted by: Fox5
It's very difficult to keep the population very happy, especially if you haven't picked a race with bonuses to that area. The 40% to 60% range is generally what you want to aim for, but you can let it drop all the way to ~30% with no penalties (other than a possible revolt if your neighbors are influential).

You keep the population low by not building too many farms. Every world (except your homeworld) starts with a pop cap of 6 billion. The max you want to raise that to is about 20 million or your people will become tragically unhappy. (the actual max is 100 million)

There's also a lot of technologies to improve happiness.
And yes, there aren't a lot of usuable planet squares. Quite often you have to make the choice and start specializing in something.

I think you start with the colony ship module from the start. You have to research the trade module, comes with the first or 2nd level of trade tech.

Engines and life support are in the tech tree. You probably need the first or 2nd tech level of both before you can really build any ships. You do start with some level of life support, but it only allows you to build the initial ships.

The game could really use a clearly laid out tech tree listing requirements and such. It may be in there somewhere, but I haven't seen it, I basically had to learn what techs beget what through trial and error. (though the game does tell you upon finishing research what that tech benefitted, and how many more techs are needed)

Okay, I've had some more time to check into Gal Civ II without a bunch of other distractions.

You were right about skipping the Campaign and just going into the freeform games.

It turns out the Campaign is/was the problem in compounding my confusion with learning about the game. I would get Pop-ups to develop certain Techs, or see that I needed certain Techs for particular items and I couldn't seem to find them.

Well, I couldn't find them because they weren't available :(

Apparently the Campaign has multiple branches missing in the Tech tree, so your options are severely limited. What gets me is they were telling me to develop Trade for example, and it wasn't even in the Tree :confused:


That aside, it turns out this is decent game. There's still a lot to learn about it, but it's nowhere near as bad as I was thinking it was.

Thanks for suggesting it and for trying to help me get through the issues :thumbsup:





 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,603
9
81
Im reading through this thread thinking "why the hell hasent anyone mentioned sins of a solar empire?!" only to discover a post i made on it and then see its 6 months old and sins wasent even out then lol :p

Give sins a try, its real time and pretty fun. Really needs a campaign though... thats coming in the expansion theyre making.
 

wanderer27

Platinum Member
Aug 6, 2005
2,173
15
81
Originally posted by: Soviet
Im reading through this thread thinking "why the hell hasent anyone mentioned sins of a solar empire?!" only to discover a post i made on it and then see its 6 months old and sins wasent even out then lol :p

Give sins a try, its real time and pretty fun. Really needs a campaign though... thats coming in the expansion theyre making.

Yeah, this was a fairly old post. I just wanted to thank Fox5 and let him know I had put some more time in on this and had found the major cause of my issues.


I picked up Sins a couple months ago but haven't played it yet.

As far as a Campaign mode for Sins, I thought someone on another thread had posted that they were going to put in a Campaign with one of the upcoming patches. That's kinda one of the reasons I haven't started it up yet - waiting on that Patch.