Montreal bans pit bull dogs

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
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I read this earlier today and think it is ridiculous. I have a 55lb lab/pit mix who is the friendliest fucker you'd ever meet. He goes gaga when meeting new people - wiggling and wagging like a maniac with his tail going back and forth like crazy. He is a cutie.

i-TvkSjsQ-L.jpg


with his hiking backpack on:

i-rR4sjzH-L.jpg
 
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EduCat

Senior member
Feb 28, 2012
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All the ones I know are friendly as well, however there is one in my hood that is a straight beast. When I dog sit a GS and have him in the front, gated, he will walk into the street around my house. Anything less than 300lb man would prob have a hard time controlling it. As it looks to me, very aggressive. Fighter or breeder I would assume.

It is one of those shorter rounder ones, head about the size of a basketball.
 
Nov 25, 2013
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Every few years the "dangerous" dog changes. In my lifetime it's been German Shepherds, then Dobies, then Rotweilers, and now it's Pit Bulls. In a few more years it will be a different breed. It's an ever evolving moral panic.
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Been around pit bulls my whole life, whether my own or owned by friends. I like the breed personally.

That being said, most any accurate statistical study will point out that pit bulls and rotties will usually account for 70-75% of attacks annually.

With stats like that I can see why they're targeted for being banned.

IMO, it's more a matter of negligent/ignorant owners who are to blame for most of those attacks.
 
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Nov 25, 2013
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Been around pit bulls my whole life, whether my own or owned by friends. I like the breed personally.

That being said, most any accurate statistical study will point out that pit bulls and rotties will usually account for 70-75% of attacks annually.

With stats like that I can see why they're targeted for being banned.

IMO, it's more a matter of negligent/ignorant owners who are to blame for most of those attacks.

Yes.
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,112
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My daughter in law fosters Pits and they have had over 25 dogs they have kept until proper homes have been found. They've all seemed like really nice gentle dogs. But...
A few nights ago my nephew's previous math teacher was out walking his small dog, when a Pit, which was on a leash, saw his dog and went nuts. It pulled out of it's collar and attacked the small dog and the teacher, killing the little dog and sending my nephew's teacher to the hospital with multiple lacerations. The owner of the dog could not get it to stop. Apparently the dog had never done anything like that before.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
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Every few years the "dangerous" dog changes. In my lifetime it's been German Shepherds, then Dobies, then Rotweilers, and now it's Pit Bulls. In a few more years it will be a different breed. It's an ever evolving moral panic.

For once we agree upon something.

Why can't you realize what you just said on a more meta level?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,697
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My daughter in law fosters Pits and they have had over 25 dogs they have kept until proper homes have been found. They've all seemed like really nice gentle dogs. But...
A few nights ago my nephew's previous math teacher was out walking his small dog, when a Pit, which was on a leash, saw his dog and went nuts. It pulled out of it's collar and attacked the small dog and the teacher, killing the little dog and sending my nephew's teacher to the hospital with multiple lacerations. The owner of the dog could not get it to stop. Apparently the dog had never done anything like that before.

That's a problem with certain breeds, they can be hyper territorial. My sister in law had some Argentinian Dogos that were great dogs, but if another dog came into the yard or was seen during a walk the Female became very difficult to control. She'd just turn psycho. The Male was much more calm about such things, except when they were together he'd follow her lead. They were really friendly around people though, too much at times, they were big strong dogs and could knock down practically anyone who was unprepared to get their face licked. :grinning: They both died a few years back and I rather miss the drama of going to my Bro's place though, the first 10 minutes was all wagging tails, yelping, and getting a face wash.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
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34 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2015. Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 82% (28) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6.6% of the total U.S. dog population.

Pit bulls are one of a very few breeds prohibited from every military reservation in the U.S.

From 2005 to 2015, there were 360 documented fatalities of Americans due to dog bite injuries; 232--or 64.4%--were by pit bulls.



http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/11-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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What prevents a person with a Pitt from saying they have across breed mutt or cross breed hound?

Same thing that prevents gun owners and manufacturers from making minor modifications to make weapons compliant with various bans and restrictions, namely new laws that further proscribe what's considered a "pit bull."
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Same thing that prevents gun owners and manufacturers from making minor modifications to make weapons compliant with various bans and restrictions, namely new laws that further proscribe what's considered a "pit bull."

Thing is guns have parts & published specs, plus since they are machined all the parts are identical (for that model)
My Mutt does not have published specs and he's alive so he's not identical to any other Mutt

While I'll agree you could do some kind of DNA test, observe the dogs behavior, measure muscle mass and jaw ratios to get a pretty good idea but these methods sound impractical for a City.
 
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bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
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My daughter in law fosters Pits and they have had over 25 dogs they have kept until proper homes have been found. They've all seemed like really nice gentle dogs. But...
A few nights ago my nephew's previous math teacher was out walking his small dog, when a Pit, which was on a leash, saw his dog and went nuts. It pulled out of it's collar and attacked the small dog and the teacher, killing the little dog and sending my nephew's teacher to the hospital with multiple lacerations. The owner of the dog could not get it to stop. Apparently the dog had never done anything like that before.

And this is why I would like to see the breed go away. 82% if ALL fatal dog bites.

  • 34 U.S. dog bite-related fatalities occurred in 2015. Despite being regulated inMilitary Housing areas and over 700 U.S. cities, pit bulls contributed to 82% (28) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up about 6.6% of the total U.S. dog population.2
  • Together, pit bulls (28) and rottweilers (3), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 91% of the total recorded deaths in 2015. This same combination also accounted for 76% of all fatal attacks during the 11-year period of 2005 to 2015.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
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Diversion politics... Montréal has huge issues, but the entire city council is focusing on this dog breed idiocy.

Breed profiling and discrimination serves no useful purpose as both sides have verifiable and contradictory statistics.

To ensure an owner has control over their dog, it should probably weigh no more than 20 pounds similar to airline in-cabin regulations.

http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/a-pet-owners-bill-of-rights-airline-travel

Any heavier and a person of smaller stature does not have complete control over their dog, or most other animals for that matter.
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Thing is guns have parts & published specs, plus since they are machined all the parts are identical (for that model)
My Mutt does not have published specs and he's alive so he's not identical to any other Mutt

While I'll agree you could do some kind of DNA test, observe the dogs behavior, measure muscle mass and jaw ratios to get a pretty good idea but these methods sound impractical for a City.

Since when has impracticality ever stopped a city government? Governments all over the place love to pass ridiculous and hard to enforce laws like banning people from walking around Sunday with an ice cream code in your pocket, or banning Happy Meal toys, or any other number of things.
 

Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
31,270
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they are banned here in Ontario.

I have no problems with BSL. Those who don't like BSL can go move somewhere else.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
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They are a litigation hazard and a Public Safety / Community hazard based on police reports and Insurance Industry injury claims. Lawyers love litigation against Pit Bull owners..the case is usually won before the jury is selected..and if the Pit Bull was off the leash when the attack / injury / bite occurred..the Jury will always side with the victim(s). Pit Bulls are a Litigation Hazard.
 
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Cozarkian

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
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You know what would be a better law? Mandatory training with the owner and dog under the tutelage of a professional trainer. Let's try less restrictive potential solutions before jumping to an outright ban.

Pit bulls are extremely eager to please and if they aren't socialized and trained properly the dog will assume that protecting it's territory and owner are the desired behavior. I suspect mandatory training would greatly reduce the risk of an incident occurring and the speed with which an owner can stop an attack if it does occur.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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You know what would be a better law? Mandatory training with the owner and dog under the tutelage of a professional trainer. Let's try less restrictive potential solutions before jumping to an outright ban.

Pit bulls are extremely eager to please and if they aren't socialized and trained properly the dog will assume that protecting it's territory and owner are the desired behavior. I suspect mandatory training would greatly reduce the risk of an incident occurring and the speed with which an owner can stop an attack if it does occur.
Biggest problem here is most attacks by pit bulls occur off property. Typically ones that are allowed to roam or have gotten out. You can force training on everyone but you can't force them to keep the discipline up after the fact and any dog breed needs consistency for training to have any value.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
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This is why when you go to the shelter every dog in there is a pit bull but all the signs say "Lab Mix".

Went to the Newark ASPCA to adopt a dog in February. Besides a few small dogs, in the kennels it was 50+ dogs and I saw nothing but Pit and Pit mixes. My dog was listed as a pit/lab mix and he definitely has some lab characteristics including his coat. I don't remember seeing other dogs their labeled lab anything though.

Anyway here is another article talking about the numbers:

http://stubbydog.org/2012/05/pit-bulls-by-the-numbers/

"
What do you do when you read a news story that claims pit bulls make up only 5 percent of the dog population but account for a third or even half of the dog bite related fatalities? Where did these numbers come from, and are they accurate? Here, we examine the truth behind these commonly quoted studies and what the other side is leaving out.

Some of the most frequently cited statistics come from the Center for Disease Control’s Special Report on fatal human dog attacks between 1979 and 1998. The report attributes a third of the fatalities between 1981 – 1992 to “pit-bull type dogs,” but what the other side fails to include is that the report comes with many warnings about its “statistics”:

• First, let’s look at where the CDC and other studies get their information: You guessed it – largely from media accounts. Of course, the media reports on pit bull-related incidents far more than those involving other types of dogs, a fact clearly detailed in the Canine Research Council’s publication, “The Pit Bull Placebo,” and the ASPCA’s “Pit Bull Bias in the Media.” Another commonly cited source, the anti-pit bull website Dogsbite.org, also sites studies that use press accounts to compile their numbers.

Aside from the fact the collection methods were faulty, the CDC study notes that guessing a dog’s breed is just that, a guess. And what’s more, people are influenced by a dog’s reputation and may attribute breed to a dog involved in an incident based on that rather than any real knowledge. To quote the report: “… to the extent that attacks by 1 breed are more newsworthy than those by other breeds, our methods may have resulted in differential ascertainment of fatalities by breed. … ecause identification of a dog’s breed may be subjective (even experts may disagree on a breed of a particular dog), DBRF [dog bite related fatalities] may be differentially ascribed to breeds with a reputation for aggression.” It gets muddier from there, considering that “pit-bull type dogs” are not a breed at all but a type encompassing several breeds and mixes that resemble those breeds. This means you have a very loose category of dogs that it’s easy for people to miss-identify.

• Sites like Dogsbite.org like to claim that pit bulls only make up 5 percent of the total dog population in the United States and are therefore “attacking” at a much higher rate than other dogs, but the truth is that there are no accurate statistics kept on the total number of dogs in this country, let alone dogs by type. The CDC clearly states this on its website: “There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.” And while it’s anyone’s guess exactly how many pit bull type dogs there are in this country, it’s clear from looking around most cities, neighborhoods and shelters that dogs labeled as pit bulls are far more common than 5 percent.

• Of course, there are even more factors to consider. The CDC study begins at the same time pit bulls’ “Evolution of a Bad Rap” started. Prior to that, according to “The Pit Bull Placebo,” pit bulls were nowhere to be found on bite lists. “In a 10-year span, from 1966 – 1975, there is only one documented case of a fatal dog attack in the United States by a dog which could even remotely be identified as a ‘Pit bull,’ ” writes the book’s author, Karen Delise. (And there are no incidents to date of a spayed/neutered indoor family pit bull ever having killed anyone.)

It’s also important to note which types of dogs are listed as responsible for bites or fatalities changes over time, depending on which types of dogs are popular for negative functions, such as guarding, at that time. The CDC report also discusses this: “reeds responsible for DBRF have varied over time. … As ascertained from our data, between 1979 and 1980, Great Danes caused the most reported human DBRF. … ince 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people, including Dachshunds, a Yorkshire Terrier, and a Labrador Retriever.” (It’s also key to point out that you are more likely to be killed by lightening than a dog, anddog bites are at historic lows.)

• The CDC report concludes that many factors contribute to whether a dog bites or not and recommends breed-neutral laws that focus on owner responsibility and individual dog behavior rather than breed-discriminatory legislation.

What’s the take home message of all this? It’s important to question statistics related to how many pit bulls there are in the United States and how often they bite for all the reasons listed above. And, if you’re in need of some positive statistics, consider this: Temperament evaluations by the American Temperament Test Society give American Pit Bull Terriers an extremely high passing rate of 82.6 percent. The average passing rate for the other 121 breeds of dogs tested was 77 percent. Pit bulls share their homes with all types of people – from celebrities to senators to everyday families like you and me. They work as search and rescue dogs, therapy dogs and service dogs, and they are our faithful companions and best friends."
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
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You would do well to remember that the pit bull has been selected my man for certain characteristics. Those characteristics make the breed dangerous.

The deceptive propaganda about the breed, "It's all how you raise them," promoted by pit bull owners, breeders, animal groups, television programs and more, is clearly evoked in these two photographs. This false narrative wholly denies the heritage of the breed, involving centuries of selection for bull baiting then dogfighting. The purposely-bred form and function of a fighting dog is to attack without warning signs, to execute the killing bite and to relentlessly attack until death.

A pit bull never nips. The damage from a pit bull bite is a horror show. They sink their teeth in and shake vigorously. The breed should not exist. The worst is that they attack without warning with NO previous signs of a problem.

http://blog.dogsbite.org/2015/04/2015-dog-bite-fatality-family-pit-bull.html