Montana Man Slams 13-Year-Old to Ground, Fracturing His Skull, for Not Removing Hat During Anthem

[jackstar7]

Then can we ban all forms of smoking? I'm particularly sensitive to the smell and it makes me ill. The day after I will vote for a complete gun ban.

Toxic masculinity? So is being masculine now bad? Or is being just being unnecessarily violent bad and any way of justifying it pure evil?

Being a toxic male is bad. Being a non-toxic person is great. Are you telling on yourself here?

Also, I've no issues banning smoking, but it's hardly the point and just a nonsense whataboutism.

 

[pmv]

Then can we ban all forms of smoking? I'm particularly sensitive to the smell and it makes me ill. The day after I will vote for a complete gun ban.

Well we're getting there, and I'm glad that we are. I hate the smell as well, and I remember when you couldn't travel on a train or go to a pub without being made to feel ill and coming away stinking of tobacco smoke. Nowadays it's banned in almost every public place, and increasingly few people have the habit anyway, and I never have to worry about it.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Are you saying that evil exists? If so, I agree with you. I don't concern myself much with quibbling over mentally ill vs evil. Some folks bent on harming others are sick and some are evil. Try to help the mentally ill and exterminate the other.

But this idea that evil lurks in the heart of all men and the weapon brings it out (because that's where I feel you are going with this) is utter BS. Just like I don't believe violent video games turns normal folks into killers, but that a lot of killers enjoy violent video games. Same goes for music with a violent, or these day patriotic, theme.

I personally don't use the word evil, but I think the concept is close enough that we don't need to quibble over the semantics. Some people do bad things.

I am not trying to say that the firearm is what causes it. Weapons are just tools. It is simply a really good tool for that job. At least I'm not making that argument here. I can and will make the argument that the tool shapes the finished product though. Give a person a hammer and everything looks like a nail, but that is for another thread.

Honestly, what I want to talk about here is how we go about convincing people to seek out mental health resources when they need it, and how our attitude towards it prevents people from doing so. If we want to reduce violence caused by mental illness we need to fix how our society treats the mentally ill.

It's a definition issue. Traditional mental illness, I agree with you. However, someone who plans out violence you wouldn't say is 'normal' would you?

Yes, quite often they are. That is what I'm telling you. People can do terrible things and not be mentally unstable or even very different from you or I. All they need is a reason. What we see in a lot of these situations is that the person was convinced that what they were doing was justified. That they were the good guys. The only reason you see them as mentally ill is because you disagree with them.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Yes, quite often they are. That is what I'm telling you. People can do terrible things and not be mentally unstable or even very different from you or I. All they need is a reason. What we see in a lot of these situations is that the person was convinced that what they were doing was justified. That they were the good guys. The only reason you see them as mentally ill is because you disagree with them.

Fair enough.

 

[Amused]

@Amused, you may want to change the title of the thread with this new info.

Claims made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. When I see evidence of service connected disability I'll buy it.

Also, what made him think Trump wanted him to attack people who don't respect the anthem? Could it be Trump?

Finally, what about this requires a change to the thread title? Did he not crack the kid's skull?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Yes, quite often they are. That is what I'm telling you. People can do terrible things and not be mentally unstable or even very different from you or I. All they need is a reason. What we see in a lot of these situations is that the person was convinced that what they were doing was justified. That they were the good guys. The only reason you see them as mentally ill is because you disagree with them.

A great example of this is religion.

 

[IronWing]

Then can we ban all forms of smoking? I'm particularly sensitive to the smell and it makes me ill. The day after I will vote for a complete gun ban.

Works for me. Actually, I don't really care about the gun ban part but if we can ban smoking, that would be good.

 

[IronWing]

Because assaults, rapes, shootings and murders don't happen in other states every single day?

Do guys on probation for prior violent offenses who crack the skulls of children get released w/o bail in other states?

 

[ch33zw1z]

@Paladin3 - if you want to ban all forms of smoking, works for me.

 

[soundforbjt]

@Paladin3 - if you want to ban all forms of smoking, works for me.

Except marijuana and I'm in. And include diesel vehicles, those make me sick when one's near me.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Except marijuana and I'm in. And include diesel vehicles, those make me sick when one's near me.

I would submit there's healthier ways to ingest MJ. Smoking affects the body negatively. I know there's a difference between smoking tobacco and MJ, but neither should be allowed to affect others.

I would have a hard time justifying my own support for universal healthcare and reducing medical costs without including both in smoking.

MJ smell doesn't bother me, never has. Tobacco smoke has a tendency to trigger migraines for me, so I do my best to avoid it.

Edit: yea exhaust from internal combustion is tough, especially Diesel fumes, sometimes I gotta roll up my windows because it's so bad.

 

[soundforbjt]

Claims made without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. When I see evidence of service connected disability I'll buy it.

Also, what made him think Trump wanted him to attack people who don't respect the anthem? Could it be Trump?

Finally, what about this requires a change to the thread title? Did he not crack the kid's skull?

I thought the fact that "Trump made him do it" was interesting and you might want to include it. No problem.

 

[mikeymikec]

Toxic masculinity? So is being masculine now bad?

Were you trying to be a stereotypical angry old man here?

"The world keeps on changing and I can't keep up! Better ridicule everything and hope it goes back to normal! Heaven forbid the notion that I try to inform myself before giving an opinion!"

 

[darkswordsman17]

Then can we ban all forms of smoking? I'm particularly sensitive to the smell and it makes me ill. The day after I will vote for a complete gun ban.

Toxic masculinity? So is being masculine now bad? Or is being just being unnecessarily violent bad and any way of justifying it pure evil?

Your clown act isn't as amusing as the other conservatives. Mostly because I know you're at least smart enough to know better than to pull this type of shit. Although because you are a conservative you just can't help being a dumbass when given the opportunity.

Even you can see how stupid that analogy is. Which of course is why you're making it (but you somehow think that's a somehow a legitimate comparison and highlighting how stupid you view others' comments). The dumbest part is that you seem to think the people wanting stricter gun control (as usual you're pulling this moronic shit where any gun control somehow amounts to a total and complete ban) wouldn't also be for banning smoking (especially cigarettes). But hey, let me know next time one of your right wing pals goes and kills a bunch of people by blowing smoke in their face. Hell, wouldn't even need to be a Right Supremacist, let me know when cigarrette smoke kills 10 people in the span of 30 seconds.

So are you yet another conservative that struggles with understanding the English language? You see there's a reason they put toxic in front of masculinity, as a qualifier, meaning, forms of masculinity that are toxic. If they were saying all masculinity is toxic, then they would have said just masculinity. Did you just have a stroke (and I don't mean you stroking your gun which is clearly a substitute for your penis because apparently without a gun you can't be a man)?

 

[Victorian Gray]

As extreme as executing him sounds, I'm *almost* in agreement with you. He served 10 years for a previous assault with a weapons charge and that wasn't enough to teach him not to assault children. Society has no further use for Mr. Curt Brockway and will be better off without him, as he has proven by his actions.

He did not serve 10 years. He got 10 years probation.

 

[pmv]

Yes, quite often they are. That is what I'm telling you. People can do terrible things and not be mentally unstable or even very different from you or I. All they need is a reason. What we see in a lot of these situations is that the person was convinced that what they were doing was justified. That they were the good guys. The only reason you see them as mentally ill is because you disagree with them.

Yes, but what made them the kind of people who would think what they were doing was justified, were their experiences. And how is that radically different from someone who is mentally ill because their experiences made them so? I'm just not 100% convinced there's a very clear line between the two. People's experiences determine their character, but sometimes we decide that what they have become constitutes mental-illness and sometimes we decide it's just a moral issue or character flaw, and I'm not sure we really know which is which.

I have similar doubts about less morally-charged things like ADD or dyslexia or 'oppositional defiant disorder' (a new one to me, which sounds like just a clincal-sounding term for 'bolshy'). I'm not making a sneering point that 'dyslexics are just thick', rather it's that I'm not sure that someone who just has trouble learning to read but isn't classed as dyslexic should be blamed or disparaged any more than someone who has a diagnosis.

Some people with certain problems and behaviours get defined as having a 'medical condition' while others don't and just get morally-judged instead - when probably everyone who has issues has an reason for being the way they are.

I'm being a bit abstract and wandering off into philosophical concerns, but it's unsettling that we can blame someone for being who they are, right up to the point where it gets a diagnostic label, then suddenly we are supposed to be more understanding.

 

[BurnItDwn]

nationalism is a disease.

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind
-- Albert Einstein

 

[ch33zw1z]

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind
-- Albert Einstein

That beta cuck was an idiot anyways.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Some people with certain problems and behaviours get defined as having a 'medical condition' while others don't and just get morally-judged instead - when probably everyone who has issues has an reason for being the way they are.

This is a good point, sometimes I think it is questionable. Sometimes I wonder if we are blaming people for problems that we just don't understand yet, that maybe eventually our science will get good enough to be able to fix everyone. Then I wonder if that is a good thing.
Everyone probably does have a reason for being the way they are, but we decide which reasons are good one and which are not, because we have to believe that people have freewill. Some things we can't overcome, at least not on your own. Other things form us based on how we decide to frame them. We can see that many people have abusive parents, sometimes even to an extreme, and don't become monsters. Some use it as an excuse to hurt others, some use it as an inspiration to help others. Everyone has reasons, but some of those reasons are due to their own choices.

 

[jackstar7]

In terms of people who do bad things, I think of the guy who thought he was going to stop Pizzagate, but got there, reflected on everything and then DID NOT shoot up the place or himself or anyone else.

He's one of the few I cling to as an example of someone breaking free of the cult, but I'm saddened by the lengths to which he had to go to get there.

 

[Ichinisan]

Wanna know how to prevent gun violence. Keep people like this child abusing monster away from guns permanently. If you don't have the temperament to be around people in public you don't get no pew pews.

I'm pretty sure that was a condition of his 10-year probation.

 

[Ichinisan]

... The argument is not whether or not people are violent, it's how much they get to impact others before it stops.

Not really. It's about defending yourself from ever allowing the harm to happen in the first place, or deterring it from starting.

The first [x] people deserve to defend themselves. They are not expendable.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Not really. It's about defending yourself from ever allowing the harm to happen in the first place, or deterring it from starting.

The first [x] people deserve to defend themselves. They are not expendable.

You're arguing a separate but generally related topic.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

**warning** haven’t read the thread

I heard on the radio this guy had a traumatic brain injury while in the service. Someone said it impacts decision making and (I forgot the word) makes him take directions very literally.
His lawyer argued that the brain injury caused the slamming from being in the military and flag respect plus the Presidents words “you ought to....”

The guy is obviously troubled and not a normal person regarding decision making.
Should he be free and roaming around to clock someone else, absolutely not but he is absolutely different than most.

 

[DrDoug]

**warning** haven’t read the thread

I heard on the radio this guy had a traumatic brain injury while in the service. Someone said it impacts decision making and (I forgot the word) makes him take directions very literally.
His lawyer argued that the brain injury caused the slamming from being in the military and flag respect plus the Presidents words “you ought to....”

The guy is obviously troubled and not a normal person regarding decision making.
Should he be free and roaming around to clock someone else, absolutely not but he is absolutely different than most.

Since there is nothing they can do to keep him from doing whatever he thinks he's being told to do, the best thing for Montana to do is to slap his hand and let him loose again. And again, and again and...

I think they might do something once he kills someone, so at least there's at least that one positive possibility!