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Monitors: CRT or LCD?

T

thewretched

Junior Member
Hi 🙂

i have started shopping for a monitor since i will be purchasing one within a month's time.
now i have kinda lost touch with hardware over the last 3-4 years and so i had a look at the LCD buyers guide thread only to have it confuse me with tons of things i just hadn't thought of.
hopefully some of you guys can help me into the right direction for a top notch monitor.

mostly, i just will just be using the new monitor for gaming and perhaps dabbling here and there with Photoshop and similar programs.

what brand/model would you recommend?
i am open to LCD's but am still very skeptical as to if they can handle fast paced action that fps games have.

and while i know CRT's are quickly (if already they haven't ) running out of fashion, i won't think twice and will easily take a CRT for my gaming needs.

that said, perhaps you guys can tell me about 2-3 brands/models you yourself would buy if you were in the market right now.

i am not restricted to retail purchases, i can purchase online but would obviously prefer getting a monitor locally...however i do want the best one for my needs.
my budget? well i want the best i can get for gaming. (hmm... $600-$800 a good number? i dunno)
size wise? hmm...i hadn't thought of that so um...i guess 21" ?? i dunno...i'll setttle for a 19" if the monitor is one of the top ones around.

brands? my current monitor is a Viewsonic and after having issues with brightness levels when i first got this monitor, i have been fairly happy with this one but clearly its time for another monitor as this one has lasted about 6 years now.

any help?
 
I bought the cheapest LCD I could find, it had a claimed 12ms response time.
No issues at all with FPS games (going from a 19" CRT -> 17" LCD).
 
The NEC 20WMGX2 is a great monitor for ~$630. Very fast, great colors, CRT-like viewing angles. Many CRT users are impressed. I wouldn't get anything less if you're willing to spend $600-800 because there's a chance you'd be disappointed. It has the OptiClear coating much like the DiamondTrons, and also a comparable brightness to their SuperBright features in 'Advanced DVM' mode. NEC makes incredible CRTs and they also make amazing LCDs. 🙂
 
I would never buy an LCD with the intention of gaming/movies and particularly Photoshop work. They're fine for browsing ATOT, no doubt.

If you have a CRT at the moment, you're likely to be disappointed. I have an LCD myself (Hyundai L90D+), but I bought it with the primary purpose of applications with low visual priority; as I've taken a temporary gaming vacation for the most part. I figured I might as well and spare myself some heat output so I bought the best I could find at the time.

Coming from a Sony G500 that began to fail, it took no time no notice the drastic difference in color fidelity, even over DVI. With further inspection, the mild banding, dithering, ghosting, and very unpleasant wishy-washy dark-color performance; it all just confirmed what I already knew. And keep in mind this is the best LCD I could find, everything else wasn't even that good.

Perhaps coming from a CRT of a lower class, the transfer to LCD would be more acceptable, but that doesn't change the fact; brute forcing light through color filters is a half-ass approach to making a screen.

My next purchase would be more gaming/movie oriented than the last so LCD is definitely off my list. I'm looking forward to OLED/SED monitors; along with other potential technologies (nanocrystals, LP retinal laser projection, etc). Although I might be waiting longer than I'd like to so I might just settle with another CRT; which wouldn't at all concern me as far as IQ goes, I'd just have to deal with the massive size and heat output again.

If I was going to buy within the next month, I'd look into Sony G/F or widescreen models. They're still Grade-A around the web, not hard to find.
 
Originally posted by: xtknight
NEC makes incredible CRTs and they also make amazing LCDs. 🙂
Click to expand...

Yea, amazing lcds with amazing mirror-capabilities. :I Otherwise it would be objectively outstanding monitor.
 
I have used several Dell LCDs and CRTs and honestly there's not much difference, except that the 1905FP in my main rig is much brighter than the UltraScan 17" Trinitron CRT I still occassionally use. Neither have any lag, even in games. So I would suggest an LCD for your system since the space savings and more modern technology come with basically no performance loss.
 
I tried this one from Newegg - Link. Read all the reviews, or some of them, see how many people claim it's a great monitor for gaming. It has a very low 5ms repsonse time, is widescreen, has good brightness/contrast specs, especially for the price. It seemed like the ideal move for me from CRT to LCD for gaming. Well, I was quite disappointed, even with 5ms, I still noticed a good bit of ghosting in Quake 2, and wasnt' too impressed with movie playback either.

I'd say stick with a CRT if the main thing you'll be doing on your computer is gaming, or using photoshop, which also depends on accurate color reproduction, etc. (so I hear), and a fast 6-bit LCD won't have that like a slower 8-bit or CRT will.
 
Originally posted by: OCNewbie
I tried this one from Newegg - Link. Read all the reviews, or some of them, see how many people claim it's a great monitor for gaming. It has a very low 5ms repsonse time, is widescreen, has good brightness/contrast specs, especially for the price. It seemed like the ideal move for me from CRT to LCD for gaming. Well, I was quite disappointed, even with 5ms, I still noticed a good bit of ghosting in Quake 2, and wasnt' too impressed with movie playback either.

I'd say stick with a CRT if the main thing you'll be doing on your computer is gaming, or using photoshop, which also depends on accurate color reproduction, etc. (so I hear), and a fast 6-bit LCD won't have that like a slower 8-bit or CRT will.
Click to expand...

I bought that HannsG 19" for my wife, and she only uses the PC for graphic design, but I hooked it up to my machine and ran WoW and it looked fine with minimal ghosting.

This one has caught my attention too:

Gateway 19" Widescreen

 
With your budget, the NEC 20WMGX2 seems to be the obvious choice. It's the best LCD available by some distance and IMO well worth the high price.

A good CRT is definitely still the best option for games for multiple reasons, but they are nearly impossible to find these days and even if you do find some place selling them, you incur a high risk of getting one that's defective in some way. A CRT isn't really worth considering at this point unless you can find one locally and are able to inspect it before you buy it.

Originally posted by: Cuthalu
Originally posted by: xtknight
NEC makes incredible CRTs and they also make amazing LCDs. 🙂
Click to expand...

Yea, amazing lcds with amazing mirror-capabilities. :I Otherwise it would be objectively outstanding monitor.
Click to expand...

The mirror effect isn't really that noticeable unless it's directly in front of a light source and the coating has a lot of benefits otherwise. I think the reflections are far preferable to the grainy look that conventional LCDs have.
 
Look, just get an LCD. As long as it's 8 bit, it's fine for photoshop and gaming. The Viewsonic VX2025wm is a nice one. IMO, it's better than the dell.
 
From my understanding and experience with an assumingly much faster 6-bit panel at 5ms, 8-bit would only be good for slower games like RPG's, maybe WoW (that's not overly fast moving is it, like a FPS?), etc., but probably would be disappointed with it in FPS games if you play many of those and are coming from a CRT.
 
Originally posted by: OCNewbie
From my understanding and experience with an assumingly much faster 6-bit panel at 5ms, 8-bit would only be good for slower games like RPG's, maybe WoW (that's not overly fast moving is it, like a FPS?), etc., but probably would be disappointed with it in FPS games if you play many of those and are coming from a CRT.
Click to expand...

I play a lot of FPS on my LCD (VX2025) and it doesn't ghost at all. Comparing 8ms to 5ms isn't all that much slower. I notice NO ghosting on my VX2025. There's probably less ghosting on my VX2025 (8 bit) than my VP930b (6-bit).
 
okay... so the few people who have given links and/or advice on LCD's really haven't given a suggestion as far as CRT's go.
yeah i know CRT's are slowly disappearing but come on guys... is it really come to the point where its tough to find a top notch CRT? :|

so far...seems i should stick with a CRT gaming wise.
what about Shadow mask CRT's vs Apture Grill CRT's?

i was told that NEC and Samsung have some really nice CRT's.
any other brand i should be aware of?
 
Just go to a shop and look for the monitor you want and then go buy it wherever you can for the best price. Asking on here is a waste of time imo, cause you get BS advice like that of OCNewbies. For what it's worth, I just got the BenQ F202W, which is an 8 bit 8 ms LCD 20.1 inch and I couldn't be happier with it gaming wise, and the difference in the colour representation over my previous 6 bit monitor is so noticable. If you look at CRT monitors in a store and they look much better than the LCDs by all means get one. 😛
 
Originally posted by: martinez
Asking on here is a waste of time imo, cause you get BS advice like that of OCNewbies.
Click to expand...

I see, when it's my opinion versus your opinion it's BS advice eh? If I didn't make it clear earlier, I only have experience gaming on one LCD. The LCD I have experience gaming on is very often given credit to be an excellent gaming LCD, with no ghosting etc. Unfortunately I only have experience with one game mainly on this LCD, that's Quake 2. In my opinion Quake 2, a fast action FPS game, looks noticeably blurry (I suppose this is what people refer to as "ghosting") compared to my 19" NEC MS95. This observation was made using the DVI connector for the LCD with the latest ATI drivers for my X800 GTO card.

I really thought I had made the right decision finding an affordable LCD with great specs that had great reviews (opinions) about it, especially labeling it excellent for gaming. It did not meet my expectations. If LCD specs are somewhat consistant, with regards to repsonse time since that seems to be the primary measure of it's gaming performance, then I see it unlikely that I'd be happy with an LCD monitor with a response time of > or = 5ms. And I've been playing the same FPS game on a CRT for the better part of 7 years so perhaps I'm more inclined to notice changes, minor or not. That's about as BS-free as I can get.

Edit - Just figure I'd add that perhaps because I'm so familiar with Quake 2, that's why I was more sensitive to the slower response of my LCD versus my CRT. Perhaps had I played newer games ghosting wouldn't have been as noticeable since I would not have had previous experience with a CRT to compare them to.
 
The ghosting is largely dependent on what games you play and the framerates you get in them. I have a 4ms rated 90GX2 and in most games I can hardly see the ghosting at all (pretty much all modern FPSs fall into this category), while in some other games (a few older ones) it's not just noticeable but massive, enough to make the games essentially unplayable since it makes me dizzy quickly.

Originally posted by: thewretched
okay... so the few people who have given links and/or advice on LCD's really haven't given a suggestion as far as CRT's go.
yeah i know CRT's are slowly disappearing but come on guys... is it really come to the point where its tough to find a top notch CRT? :|

so far...seems i should stick with a CRT gaming wise.
what about Shadow mask CRT's vs Apture Grill CRT's?

i was told that NEC and Samsung have some really nice CRT's.
any other brand i should be aware of?
Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately that's pretty much the case these days. 🙁 If you want to try your luck with it though, look for a used Sony FW900 or Mitsubishi 2070SB on ebay or AccurateIT. These have different strengths but are considered the best CRTs out there and although they were discontinued years ago, used ones still can be had for bargain prices. Both monitors also have a couple of rebranded versions that may be easier to find. As I said, if you do happen to get a perfect one, it will be much better for games than any LCD you can buy. It's just that there are a ton of bad ones out there and the tubes also tend to get out of alignment/focus during shipping, so buying locally is a much safer option.
 
Originally posted by: CP5670
The ghosting is largely dependent on what games you play and the framerates you get in them. I have a 4ms rated 90GX2 and in most games I can hardly see the ghosting at all (pretty much all modern FPSs fall into this category), while in some other games (a few older ones) it's not just noticeable but massive, enough to make the games essentially unplayable since it makes me dizzy quickly.

Originally posted by: thewretched
okay... so the few people who have given links and/or advice on LCD's really haven't given a suggestion as far as CRT's go.
yeah i know CRT's are slowly disappearing but come on guys... is it really come to the point where its tough to find a top notch CRT? :|

so far...seems i should stick with a CRT gaming wise.
what about Shadow mask CRT's vs Apture Grill CRT's?

i was told that NEC and Samsung have some really nice CRT's.
any other brand i should be aware of?
Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately that's pretty much the case these days. 🙁 If you want to try your luck with it though, look for a used Sony FW900 or Mitsubishi 2070SB on ebay or AccurateIT. These have different strengths but are considered the best CRTs out there and although they were discontinued years ago, used ones still can be had for bargain prices. Both monitors also have a couple of rebranded versions that may be easier to find. As I said, if you do happen to get a perfect one, it will be much better for games than any LCD you can buy. It's just that there are a ton of bad ones out there and the tubes also tend to get out of alignment/focus during shipping, so buying locally is a much safer option.
Click to expand...


Aperture grill has two very fine wires running horizontally that is discernable on the screen. It bothers some people. I'm typing on a NEC FE1250 and have a NEC at home too. They don't bother me and hardly ever notice 'em.

I'm not even going to get into what's better 'cause it's been beaten to death. I do know I got one of the last new NEC FE2111s available almost a year and a half ago so pickings are gonna be slimmer now. I love the flexibility in resolutions that you have with CRTs.

 
It is no contest IMO. LCD's are getting closer but that is only at the top like the glossy NEC GX2s.

I had read all the LCDs are equal now propaganda, bought one sold it cause it was crap(dell 2405), bought another and returned because it was defective (2007fp) (and also crap).

Then I picked up a refurb trinitron, happy now. Note I have a local shop that gets them in on a regular basis so I get to check it out before buying and pay no delivery charge. Look for a computer store that does second hand stuff, they may get in refurbs.

My opinion:

Ghost/Smear: All LCDs do it, so is only a question of how bad and how bothered you are. Think it doesn't, grab your scroll bar on the web page and move it up and down. Is the text still sharp?

Black levels: No contest. You may not notice if you don't compare and compute in a very bright room. Watch movies/game dark in the dark. Blech. My CRT has black hole black levels. It is gorgeous.

Delays: Some input lag on some models. My 2405 definitely had lag. I didn't notice any on my 2007fp.

Some other things I wasn't crazy about.

Pixelization/SDE: Screen door effect. black space around each pixels, make the individual pixels viewable.

Viewing angles: Both Dells had PVA screens with bad real world viewing angles. This is not a case of sitting at an angle, but the sides of images were washed out when I was perfectly centered. On the horizontal PVA was even worse than TN. TN is worse in the vertical. Only IPS has decent viewing angles.

Multires: LCD's IQ suffers when not in native resolution. CRT handles a multitude of resolutions gracefully.


Bottom line. After this experience I will be hanging on to CRT as long as I can, or until they really fix these issues. I think the only LCD that comes close is the NEC 20WMGX2 and it would still be second to a much cheaper CRT in all these areas.

Of every display technology that we have ever had. CRT is the best. Enjoy it while you can. SED will be an attempt to get CRT quality in LCD like package. That is why there is so much excitement but there wont be SED monitors anytime soon.






 
Originally posted by: guidryp
SED will be an attempt to get CRT quality in LCD like package. That is why there is so much excitement but there wont be SED monitors anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Cool, don't think I've heard of SED before. Found this link if anybody else happens to read this and isn't familiar with it - Link - Sounds promising. And at the bottom of that link says that there should be TV's by Q4 of '07, so not too far in the distant future.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.
 
SED will be an attempt to get CRT quality in LCD like package.
Click to expand...
Theoretically better. It should be void of geometric distortion, have virtually inexistant afterglow and perhaps even better color accuracy. And then there's also subpixel proximity which, if better, would improve sharpness.
 
I have a cheap CRT (Samsung 997MB 19in) which I bought new for $260CDN locally. Still beats the pants off LCDs for gaming purposes (main use of my PC as well as web browsing).

I kind of wish I had went for one of the refurb Sony FW900 24inch widescreen CRT's on eBay (~400-500US with shipping) but I don't think my desk could hold up a 95 pound monitor without modification.

Hopefuly SED comes out in the next few years, I don't want to have to use LCD (crap colours, native res, 60/72hz screwing up vsync in FPS etc.)
 
hmm...well my heart is still set on getting a CRT.
is this Samsung 1100DF Black a top notch CRT?

what about this NEC AccuSync 120-BK CRT??

also this Viewsonic G225FB CRT??

it seems everyone is afraid of giving links to CRT's and most are giving links to LCD's.
in the end if i can't find a great CRT, i probably will settle for that NEC 20WMGX2 LCD everyone seems to be recommending...or perhaps that high end Samsung LCD which i keep forgetting the model number of.

opinions on the above linked CRT's? PLEASE.... 🙁
 
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