Mom may have cancer recurrence, wants to experiment with homeopathy

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Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
I did. But she doesn't want to. The homeopathy guy convinced her that she doesn't need 'conventional medicine' and it fits right in with her fear of surgery/chemo. I would be fine if she was taking some homeopathic magic potion in addition to regular treatment, if it helped ease her emotional state.

If I'm unable to convince her otherwise, I can only hope delaying treatment by a month doesn't aggravate things any worse.
Yeah, I guess that'd be tolerable...though very marginally. I'd still hate to see a close relative wasting money on extremely expensive placebos, and being taken advantage of by an asshole con-man. There's certainly value in an improved emotional state......but still, that's not a good arrangement. It still feeds money to someone who doesn't deserve it.

But the fact that he's trying to pull people away from real medicine is much worse. If he wants to be stupid, fine, that's his goal in life, and I support his freedom to pursue it - by himself. Once his stupidity starts actively injuring other people, well, that's the sort of thing that would ordinarily be considered to be illegal. Unfortunately, our species generally sucks at identifying threats that cause damage over an extended period of time - such as ignoring hundreds of years of progress in medicine, in favor of treatments that didn't work a thousand years ago, and still don't work now.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Cancer person should start smoking medical marijuana. Dying sucks but at least she would die relaxed.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,095
30,041
146
Cancer person should start smoking medical marijuana. Dying sucks but at least she would die relaxed.

THC has been shown to kill cancer cells in some studies.

I think it's THC. well, at least one or two of the compounds in cannabis.

:hmm:


the cold hard truth, OP, is that MJ will do far more for your mother than any homeopathic treatment would.
 

tynopik

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2004
5,245
500
126
the cold hard truth, OP, is that MJ will do far more for your mother than any homeopathic treatment would.

mellow her out enough to deal with the cancer regimen

"Hey mom! I made these brownies just for you!"

<an hour later>

"So you ready for your appointment with the oncologist?"

"Groovy"
 

NoReMoRsE

Platinum Member
Jul 24, 2001
2,078
1
81
Whatever your mom's decision, make sure she has good palliative care. Best wishes for you and your family.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
slap her in the fucking face and tell her no. thinking the cancer away will work better.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Homeopathy is quackery, I hope your mother realizes that before it is too late.

I actually know someone who has to take daily injections of a chemo drug for cancer. Imagine having to take chemo medication every day for the rest of your life.
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
I would look into Dichloroacetic Acid (DCA.) I would also get vitamin D3 levels tested, and possibly take 5000 IU daily... another immunity booster would be low dose naltrexone.

And yeah, cancer loves sugar and the subsequent poor insulin regulation, definitely get that in check with diet and supplementation. Cancer especially loves low oxygen environments, with that in mind you could try food grade H202 therapy or hyperbaric oxygen.

Sodium Bicarbonate is also being used in Italy and elsewhere as a treatment for cancer. Good luck.
 
Oct 4, 2004
10,515
6
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Thanks everyone for the advice and good will. Let's see how it goes, it's morning now and have to see what happens today.

I did want to quickly answer a few questions:
1) Yes busydude, I do live in India. Hyderabad, to be exact.
2) DrPizza, artsvscommerce and several others - unfortunately this country recognizes homeopathy as a legit science and busting quacks isn't top priority for our legal system. It is my understanding that as long as no one claims to be a Doctor of Medicine (in the conventional sense) with forged certificates, they are free to dispense whatever 'medical' advice they want, whether it be good or bad for the patient. The guy is a legit homeopathic doctor (in the legal sense) and his actions can't be deemed illegal as per local law.
3) Another problem that I didn't mention is that this isn't really going to cost anything, apart from medicines (which I will admit are substantially cheaper that conventional drugs) which are well within our means. He's been our tenant for over a decade now. He doesn't charge us anything. He offers free consultation (my sister consulted him for endometriosis as an alternative after two surgeries and experimental treatments by regular doctors, my sister's sister-in-law also consulted him for psoriasis and apparently had success after failure elsewhere) and prescribes medicines that we are free to purchase wherever we like.

So the problem is the guy actually believes he is doing this out of nothing but kindness and fondness towards my family.

Ancalagon44: Sadly the homeopathic practicioner is not a snake oil salesman - he actually believes in his product. However, he is incredibly ignorant.

I think this dude is right. I am inclined to believe his motive isn't to make some money - he actually believes he's doing the right thing, out of nothing but good will towards his landlord of ten years.

I wish I could spend more time on here and just vent and look up more information but I really have to go.

Thanks for your support ATOT.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
I believe Mark Twain once wrote a letter that would be very appropriate for a situation like this.

It seems to be the case that when low on nutrients but healthy, the body enters a certain state of preservation. This could slow down the formation of blood vessels to cancerous tissue but i doubt it will prevent it.
Starving the tumour doesn't work, because it will pull whatever it needs from the blood and surrounding tissue...kind of like babies. It's the rest of the body that will suffer.

Also, trying to halt angiogenesis with diet won't work particularly well, because the idea of a cancer is that a lot of it is ischaemic and necrotic anyway. Angiogenesis inhibitors work, but what is required is far beyond the little (if anything) that is achievable through diet.

On a side note, it is even mentioned that consuming a low amount of calories can prevent a woman from getting pregnant. Although not relevant it is certainly interesting. I personally would not bet on it. Evolution makes people a bit different. And this is great for survival. What works for one person may not work for another.
Weight gain/loss, extremes of body weight, exercise level, diet, a lot of things can make a woman anovulatory (and therefore temporarily infertile).

To return to the subject, it is his mothers choice and hers alone. But it depends on the situation , by giving this real life example : Recently the stepmother of a very nice person was diagnosed with cancer. The chances of survival even with chemotherapy and radiation therapy and surgery were extremely slim given the age and the progress of the tumor. The stepmother opted for the decision to be with family for the weeks she had until she would pass on. I can not give all information of course because of privacy reasons. Needless to sat that this is an understandable situation.
But refusing a sure chance of survival and going for homeopathy. I find that difficult. I myself constantly try to point out in my virus thread that the cause of cancer and other diseases is not as clear and easy as some doctors point it out to be. But there is hope for the future as we make technological progress.
Well, it's not just the mother's decision, because she doesn't have to live with her death. Her family does.

Also, I agree that given that not all the information is available in this case it's hard to make a concrete recommendation (nor should the OP take it without consulting an oncologist or general practitioner first). But homeopathy is at the very, very bottom of the ladder for what may improve your outcome in terms of cancer treatment. While a lot of chemotherapeutic regimens are designed to be curative, there are a lot of treatments designed to be palliative. Even if the illness is terminal, treatment can be designed to slow progression, especially into important areas like nerves or vital organs, increase lifespan, and improve quality of life. Whereas the only thing that homeopathy could possibly do is to decrease pain very, very slightly due to placebo responses.
 

OlafSicky

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2011
2,364
0
0
Homoeopathy is a scam it does not work and it will not cure cancer. Who ever says it does is a quack if they take money for it they should go to jail for fraud.


Give your mom support and don't encourage any voodoo treatments.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Massive doses of vitamin C would be a better choice.

I swear vitamin C makes me feel better sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. It also makes very very cloudy urine. It also cleans out the colon if you take too much :D
 
May 11, 2008
20,138
1,149
126
I believe Mark Twain once wrote a letter that would be very appropriate for a situation like this.


Starving the tumour doesn't work, because it will pull whatever it needs from the blood and surrounding tissue...kind of like babies. It's the rest of the body that will suffer.

Also, trying to halt angiogenesis with diet won't work particularly well, because the idea of a cancer is that a lot of it is ischaemic and necrotic anyway. Angiogenesis inhibitors work, but what is required is far beyond the little (if anything) that is achievable through diet.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Weight gain/loss, extremes of body weight, exercise level, diet, a lot of things can make a woman anovulatory (and therefore temporarily infertile).

Perhaps one day a healthy combination can be found that works for women
who have difficulties with traditional ways to prevent pregnancy. Who knows...

Well, it's not just the mother's decision, because she doesn't have to live with her death. Her family does.

I agree. In my real life example, the whole family discussed it and were unanimous about the decision. I should have more clarified it that the mother ultimately decides , but of course after discussion and negotiation with the family. With these matters, family and friends are important.

Also, I agree that given that not all the information is available in this case it's hard to make a concrete recommendation (nor should the OP take it without consulting an oncologist or general practitioner first). But homeopathy is at the very, very bottom of the ladder for what may improve your outcome in terms of cancer treatment. While a lot of chemotherapeutic regimens are designed to be curative, there are a lot of treatments designed to be palliative. Even if the illness is terminal, treatment can be designed to slow progression, especially into important areas like nerves or vital organs, increase lifespan, and improve quality of life. Whereas the only thing that homeopathy could possibly do is to decrease pain very, very slightly due to placebo responses.

I agree .
 

bradley

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2000
3,671
2
81
Massive doses of vitamin C would be a better choice.

Yeah, liposomal vitamin C would make such massive doses much more feasible. Liposomal delivery is possibly better overall than IV administration in many ways too.

I know that some in the medical community wanted to label Linus Pauling a quack on the subject of simple vitamin C, but him being the only person to have won two undivided Nobel prizes (back when they truly meant something) makes it awfully hard to have that label stick.
 
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Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
Yeah, liposomal vitamin C would make such massive doses much more feasible. Liposomal delivery is possibly better overall than IV administration in many ways too.

I know that some in the medical community wanted to label Linus Pauling a quack on the subject of simple vitamin C, but him being the only person to have won two undivided Nobel prizes (back when they truly meant something) makes it awfully hard to have that label stick.
It doesn't matter that he won two Nobel Prizes. What matters is that he didn't win them in Physiology & Medicine. Even if he did, it would be of passing relevance. In the scientific community, awards give you enough respect for people to pay attention to you before you open your mouth. How people judge you afterwards depends on what comes out when you do.
 

NoReMoRsE

Platinum Member
Jul 24, 2001
2,078
1
81
Linus Pauling's vitamin C theory has never been proven. He also thought DNA was a triple helix.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
76
Thanks everyone for the advice and good will. Let's see how it goes, it's morning now and have to see what happens today.

I did want to quickly answer a few questions:
1) Yes busydude, I do live in India. Hyderabad, to be exact.
2) DrPizza, artsvscommerce and several others - unfortunately this country recognizes homeopathy as a legit science and busting quacks isn't top priority for our legal system. It is my understanding that as long as no one claims to be a Doctor of Medicine (in the conventional sense) with forged certificates, they are free to dispense whatever 'medical' advice they want, whether it be good or bad for the patient. The guy is a legit homeopathic doctor (in the legal sense) and his actions can't be deemed illegal as per local law.
3) Another problem that I didn't mention is that this isn't really going to cost anything, apart from medicines (which I will admit are substantially cheaper that conventional drugs) which are well within our means. He's been our tenant for over a decade now. He doesn't charge us anything. He offers free consultation (my sister consulted him for endometriosis as an alternative after two surgeries and experimental treatments by regular doctors, my sister's sister-in-law also consulted him for psoriasis and apparently had success after failure elsewhere) and prescribes medicines that we are free to purchase wherever we like.

So the problem is the guy actually believes he is doing this out of nothing but kindness and fondness towards my family.



I think this dude is right. I am inclined to believe his motive isn't to make some money - he actually believes he's doing the right thing, out of nothing but good will towards his landlord of ten years.

I wish I could spend more time on here and just vent and look up more information but I really have to go.

Thanks for your support ATOT.

I am from the same city too. Every time I pass by a homoepathy clinic.. I rage a lot. There is very little one can do.. as it seems to have a lot of Govt. backing.

Anyway.. I hope everything work out well for you and your mom.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
I am from the same city too. Every time I pass by a homoepathy clinic.. I rage a lot. There is very little one can do.. as it seems to have a lot of Govt. backing.

Anyway.. I hope everything work out well for you and your mom.



Of course it has government backing, it's cheap and requires no controls by the government other than looking a blind eye. Can you even imagine the nightmare of trying to give REAL medical treatment to all you Indians would do to the government? The government doesn't even want to explore that possibility, so they go this route to placate the masses.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Linus Pauling's vitamin C theory has never been proven. He also thought DNA was a triple helix.
What were the full details of his theory? What we know for a fact is that vitamin C is an antioxidant. That means it will prevent certain problems before they start. Cancer is one of them. It will not cure cancer, but it reduces the chance of cancer developing.

He was probably speculating based on other mammals. During times of stress, animals that create their own vitamin C begin to create significantly more vitamin C. That's a hint that maybe it has some special use in humans in stressful times, but it's just a hint.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200304/vitamin-c-stress-buster
People who have high levels of vitamin C do not show the expected mental and physical signs of stress when subjected to acute psychological challenges. What's more, they bounce back from stressful situations faster than people with low levels of vitamin C in their blood.
...
In the animal studies, vitamin C fed to rats undergoing stress not only prevented the expected increase in cortisol levels, it prevented the animals from exhibiting the known signs of physical and emotional stress, including loss of body weight. Animals that did not receive vitamin C had three times the level of stress hormones.

It's not a miracle drug. It's just vitamins. They're all important and you need all of them.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,095
30,041
146
Linus Pauling's vitamin C theory has never been proven. He also thought DNA was a triple helix.

Especially with the Vit C theory, these ideas came out during what we refer to as "The Crazy Years" of the good Dr Pauling.
 

jupiter57

Diamond Member
Nov 18, 2001
4,600
3
71
What can you do? It's a free world; sort of... If she's determined not to get conventional treatment, try steering her towards some kind of herbal therapy. At least that might do something.

If I got cancer, I doubt I'd get treatment of any kind unless it had an almost flawless record of recovery.
You gotta die some time, and an extra year or something isn't worth the sickness of being pumped full of chemicals, or radiation. Life isn't living if you're miserable.

My sentiments exactly!
I just have a hard time with cancer.
Aunt was diagnosed with lung cancer in the early 70s, told her they had to remove the diseased lung & do chemo or she would die in less than 2 years.
She declined, said let it take her.
She died 2 years ago at age 87.

I was diagnosed with laryngeal cancer in '96, I was of the same line of thinking, I was ready to go, let it have me.
Diagnosed with prostate cancer in '98, same line of thinking.
13 years later & damnit I'm still here.
WTF?

Another observation: Ever see anyone without Health Insurance be diagnosed with cancer?
I haven't.

I truly hope I have not offended ANYONE, especially the OP, just this subject brings out the worst in me.
 
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ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
Another observation: Ever see anyone without Health Insurance be diagnosed with cancer?
I haven't.

WTF? This is the most ludicrous statement I've read.

Prostate cancer is a special case by the way, the majority of them grow so slowly that men who have them will die of something else long before the cancer kills them.