Mobo Struggles - can't seem to feel good about one

[drinky]

I've been struggling to nail down a motherboard.
I'll spare the 'I just don't have enough the time speech' (which I don't and it's frustrating), and jump in.
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Budget - prob about 700$ taxes in...more would be hard.
Market = Canada
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Already have
- Cases
- Hard Drives = 2 Sata 1 HD's to be upgraded later.
- Graphics card = Zotac GeForce GT 520
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Getting:
- CPU = I5 2500K
- Mobo = MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) LGA ?

- RAM:
Corsair 1600C9B Vengeance Desktop Memory Kit - 16GB
(4x 4GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, 9-9-9-24 CAS Latency, Intel XMP Ready, Unbuffered

- Power Supply:
PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II Power Supply - 750W, 80 Plus Silver, 135mm Fan, SLI Ready, CrossFire Ready, Active PFC
- I am not up on my power supplies these years. Can say no future plans for SLI/Cross Fire at this time-
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MoBO - What do I need...Want...Expect...besides everything!!

- Budget is Sub 200$ with minor flexibility.
- SATA ports - I get old gear here/there....so I connect them!
- Stability/Reliability is key as I can't afford to replace if I break it.
- Overclocking = I'll just use the '1 sec overclock' feature and be happy.
- SDD as cache = yes...but later due to budget.

Question - finding it hard to actually see written down - Can I use any mSATA PCI-E x1 SSD in a Z68 mobo as cache?
I'm sure I can - but Cannot seem to find it written down anywhere.

- OS = Linux (distro undecided yet) + Virtual environments for learning. Project 1 = Server 2008 + Exchange + BlackBerry Enterprise Server Express all VERY lightly populated - (Hence 16 gig Ram so I can do other things at the same time and I love ram.)

- I'll prob Dual boot Win7 for some side gaming..Starcraft 2 / first person shooters... time on this is clearly a guilty pleasure...so I can live if my board is not captain gamer fantastic.
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- My Mobo biases:

MSI - I've always liked their product as a good investments.

Gigabyte = Always liked but never owned. Thought I'd do them this time but all sub 200$ boards have PCIE Gen 2...why?

ASUS = not a fan of them..never had good luck and seem to fix a lot of them (yes, market share understood).

ASRock = always looked at as cheap.... I see them recommended out there...but find faith hard to come by. Long life and reliability not terms I associate with them... am I really wrong on this?

EVGA - sour with them... their vid card in my previous ABIT A7V mobo failed taking the Mobo with it.....left a very bitter taste. I loved that board.

BioStar - They've had good boards in the past..but I've been out of the mobo market for 7 years now (yes, 7 years on previous system and I'd have made 8 with a nice budget for a new system but for EVGA!!!!).



Feed back - What do ye think of my choice...? feel free to attack it...just back up what you say as I will RTFM it. Opinions welcomed, Fan Boys are not.

 

[Rvenger]

Asrock now makes quality boards, I actually recommend them over Asus. MSI makes great boards. I am just not a fan of the Bios for overclocking.

My choices would be:

Asrock Z68 Extreme 3 Gen 3
Asrock Z68 Extreme 4 Gen 3

 

[mkmitch]

I just finished a build this weekend with a MSI Z68A GD55 G3. Couldn't be happier with the board. Haven't fiddled with it yet. Filled it with (2) HDD & SSD,i5-2500K, Hyper EVo and HD 6870 and paid $139 AR shipped at Amazon. Didn't need the extra sata on the GD65.

 

[Zap]

Hello drinky, and welcome to AnandTech Forums.

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. Unless you want a specific feature that few motherboards have or are looking into hardcore huge overclocking, you can pick any motherboard and probably be happy with it. For the most part motherboards are commodities these days. For everyone saying they avoid "brand X" due to problems in the past, you'll find someone that absolutely loves "brand X" because they've never had a problem with them. No brand exists (motherboard or otherwise) that has a zero failure rate.

Regarding using a PCIe SSD as cache, you CAN do that if you use 3rd party caching software. The Intel RST software currently only works on SATA SSDs connected to Intel Z68 chipset SATA ports.

PCIe 2.0 is the current standard. I know that some boards (and AMD 7000 series cards) may tout PCIe 3.0, but for now (and maybe a few years) you won't see any benefit. Also, even boards that claim such support do not support it RIGHT NOW with the current CPUs, so it is all marketing at this point.

 

[drinky]

Thanks for the replies.

mkmitch - I'd love to hear any updates. I've heard of the BIOS being a bit unpolished to unfriendly.... any thoughts?
Did you flash to the newest Bios?
Thanks

Rvenger - I'm RTFM'ing it...sorry for the slow reply...time really hasn't been my friend lately...

Zap - I hear you... it's easy to take things too far..get too caught up in what's coming next. At some point you just have to jump in.
Right now I'm jumping because I need a system to run things the work laptop is not acceptable for. Plus if I had to over read anything, it would be the mobo. I like to really understand what I'm getting and what's out there on the technology level and honestly...posting to the forums for help in some way has a 'cheating' feeling with it if you can hear that. I'm sure I could buy most anything really and be pretty happy... but I want a little more. Plus, being out of the hardware market the past 5-6 years, I'm not up on the trending. Companies go stale or cut corners... Rvenger states ASRock is good stuff now where they started as Mother-O-Boards4U.
I guess I just want to talk motherboards and need the information people who's followed them of late to tell me what they know least I fetch the thumb screws! :twisted:

Gotta run... hate posting first drafts...but C'est la vie.

 

[mkmitch]

Just finished the build Sunday so I haven't really played around with it too much, cabling done this morning, yuck. Only issue I had with the board other than me forgetting to install case speaker was using a mouse in the bios and then installing win 7. Finally stole my wife's wirless and got it sorta working. Now no mice issue. There is an overclocking menu in the bios and I have read thru it a couple of times is all. Waiting to overclock for a bit to allow the Hyper 212 evo and i5-2500K to get more acquainted with each other.😉

No other issues to report at moment, am running prime 95 as I type and getting
46,44,47,46 at full load.

 

[thelastjuju]

You absolutely CANNOT just pick any motherboard.. have you not seen the differences in ratings on newegg for 1155 motherboards? Its absolutely outrageous.

It actually seems it has most to do with individual MODELS rather than brands being reliable across the board. Asus, as a whole are not as reliable as they used to be.. but ASUS and ASrock are the best choices IMO because they seem to have noticeably less failures reported. MSI and Gigabyte are just too hit or miss.

I'd recommend this Asrock: $130 and extremely few failures reported.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157253

$200+ motherboards are just a complete waste anyway.

 

[Zap]

Plus if I had to over read anything, it would be the mobo. I like to really understand what I'm getting and what's out there on the technology level and honestly...posting to the forums for help in some way has a 'cheating' feeling with it if you can hear that. I'm sure I could buy most anything really and be pretty happy... but I want a little more. Plus, being out of the hardware market the past 5-6 years, I'm not up on the trending. Companies go stale or cut corners...

On the flip side, some companies improve.

What is there to understand? All motherboards based on the same chipset will have the same base feature set and same base performance. Above that you have overclockability (which can be considered a "feature"), additional features (better sound chip? extra SATA ports?) and layout/form factor.

What's "cheating" about posting here for help?

There is no one motherboard product on the market that is so much better than any other (brand or model) which would cause everyone in the whole world to never choose another motherboard. Yes, some models are more popular than others, but popularity does not always mean the better choice for YOU in particular. Sometimes a motherboard is popular because it gives you more for the money (ASRock). Sometimes a motherboard is popular because it is unique (Zotac with ITX). Sometimes motherboards are popular because they are known for overclocking (MSI/Asus/Gigabyte sponsoring "pro" overclockers and overclocking tournaments).

 

[drinky]

Eh dere
I said my time is short..and here's the proof.. Sorry for the long delay.
To address in reverse order:

Zap:
What's there to Understand you ask... there are short cuts out there that companies can take that if you're not up on it..you can fall into.
You appear to genuienly find my efforts a little excessive.... so please, allow me to share examples A & B:

A), P4's are newly out.
- I find a great deal on a P4 and intel mobo combo!
- ...but I've just been screwed.
- I've purchased a socket 423 instead of socket 478


B) I had a wrt54g Linksys router.
- I'm doing larger work to my network and flash the firmware while I'm at it.
- I was just screwed. That flash removed Port Forwarding.
- 2 days of partical downtime later, I was back up and that router was now running dd-wrt (flip of the bird to you cisco for doing that by the way).

Reviews are nice..but they deal in the now. after a board has been out a few weeks or months....issues can pop up once the boxes are in the wild (win vista ignoring all network printers anyone!).
Forums are usually the place to find those issue.. and to find astro turfing and fan boys.....I've always like anandtech's crowd (Thanks anandtech btw - you were the first by a solid week on the P4 423 socket bs - It didn't help me directly as I went AMD...but I saved 2 friends from it).


thelastjuju
I'm afraid that I never trust reviews. AstroTurfing and fan boy's taint them. Used to watch reviews a fair bit when I worked with HP's business sales group beating Dell computer quotes with zeal thanks to Dells, then, Intel only policy. Numerious times I found astroturf'd 'reviews' with the same type-o's and wording on mupltiple products:

Those AMD chips run vrey hot and loud. I'm extremely satisfied with my great P4!!
Those HP laserjet 2200's run vrey hot and loud. I'm extremely satisfied with my great Dell 3100!!

. I'd report it... but nothing was ever done. Today's astroturf legions of 'work from home' reviewers can swarm a dozen sites pretty fast and can be really really hard to spot It's sad and rather cheap.

mkmitch
How's the MSI working for you? I've heard of the BIOS not being super fantastic... was hoping for someone with hands on experience (reviewers aside as I take their word too).

I've been reading a bit about some Gigabyte boards encountering a boot loop.... from what I gather, it seems to be in hand now with new BIOS updates...... anyone spend enough time in the forums to notice any themes?


Rvenger
I'm still reviewing the ASRock boards you recommended - I know...I'm slow....and those boards aren't at my usual haunts.... I've found them at ncix.com...but haven't fine toothed them.

Thanks.

 

[drinky]

Zap - sorry... the cheating remark... that's because I should be RTFM'ing these...but i'm not finding a comfortable feeling about my work.
Feels like I'm missing things... and I am of course....such as:

- When is the Z68 replacement chip coming out?
- I read on the X79's...believe they are I7 only parts currently...or only I7's can support the total number of PCI-E lanes....?
- heard of z77's coming out...but didn't see much detail and believe their coming out in quarter 3 or 4?

-I've already forgotten much of the difference between P67 and Z68's.. graphic's options is the biggest....but I only read the comparison article once which for me isn't enough to really retain it.
- There also a lot of talk right now of cap quality...and I have not been able to read up on that much at all....

Trying to read reviews at work is broken reading.. just too busy there right now and I want to purchase soon... no later than end of March unless there's a right nice carrot coming...else I'd like to wait for ivy bridge... but without AMD breathing down Intel's necks...they don't care much to hurry.

That's the sort of thing I mean... asking others to fill me in and point me to what I should be reading.. I feels a bit like cheating 😛

 

[mkmitch]

drinky, haven't flashed to newest bios. I go by the old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it. It took some reading of the manual (damnit anyway) but got it overclocked up to 4.5 very easily and stopped. Decided didn't need more than 4.0 as system is way fasted enough having come from a 2001 Dell Dimension. Knock on wood have not had one issue with the board. All fans plugged into the board, 3 drives and 3 front satas all plugged in. Fit my needs to a tee. BTW 4.5 was running stabile at 1.27 volts, OCCT showed it pulling 1.24.

 

[Zap]

Zap:
What's there to Understand you ask... there are short cuts out there that companies can take that if you're not up on it..you can fall into.
You appear to genuienly find my efforts a little excessive.... so please, allow me to share examples A & B:

A), P4's are newly out.
- I find a great deal on a P4 and intel mobo combo!
- ...but I've just been screwed.
- I've purchased a socket 423 instead of socket 478


B) I had a wrt54g Linksys router.
- I'm doing larger work to my network and flash the firmware while I'm at it.
- I was just screwed. That flash removed Port Forwarding.
- 2 days of partical downtime later, I was back up and that router was now running dd-wrt (flip of the bird to you cisco for doing that by the way).

A) You could have made the same mistake and purchased an AMD socket 754 CPU for a socket 939 motherboard, or purchased DDR3 RAM to stick in a DDR2 motherboard. Or, putting gasoline in a diesel truck. Or used sugar in a recipe that called for salt. Basically, you tried to put a square in a round hole and it didn't fit. Simple mistake. Solution is NOT to research the crap out of it, but to make sure things are compatible.

B) Don't fix what ain't broke? Dunno, but if Cisco removed features, that sucks.

- When is the Z68 replacement chip coming out?
- I read on the X79's...believe they are I7 only parts currently...or only I7's can support the total number of PCI-E lanes....?
- heard of z77's coming out...but didn't see much detail and believe their coming out in quarter 3 or 4?

-I've already forgotten much of the difference between P67 and Z68's.. graphic's options is the biggest....but I only read the comparison article once which for me isn't enough to really retain it.
- There also a lot of talk right now of cap quality...and I have not been able to read up on that much at all....

New chipset (Z77) will come out no earlier than when Ivy Bridge comes out. Which, BTW, may have been delayed.

There is socket 1155 and socket 2011. You need to decide on which one to get (most likely 1155) and buy your CPU and motherboard around that. X79 is socket 2011 only.

Z68 has everything P67 has, with the addition of these items:
- Supports integrated graphics if the CPU has it (for instance Core i5-2550 does NOT).
- Supports overclocking the integrated graphics, if that floats your boat.
- Supports QuickSync (faster video transcoding if your software supports it) if your CPU has integrated graphics.
- Supports using integrated graphics alongside your PCIe graphics, so for instance you can run two monitors on your graphics card, and another two using integrated graphics.
- Supports SSD caching through using Intel RST software. This is a purely artificial software limitation by Intel to sell more Z68, and not a hardware limitation.

Everything else is the same. Note that some of the features may require Windows 7.

IMO capacitor quality right now is pretty much a non-issue. It was different in the past, and can change in the future, but right now I'm pretty confident that pretty much any motherboard will have capacitors which can last a few years without problems. Only ones I would ever worry about are the super budget motherboards which don't use solid caps, and I'm still not that worried.

BTW ALL CAPACITORS will age over time, no matter how good quality it is supposed to be. The leaky caps of a few years ago were just exceptionally poor quality, that's all.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

If I was to buy a Z68 mobo today, I would choose the MSI Z68 GD65, (not GD80 because it has only 7 SATA ports instead of 8 on the GD65).

I would choose it over Gigabyte Z68 UD4 perhaps even UD5 and over pretty much nearly all Asus motherboards.

However, Gigabyte isn't bad either except for the boot loop problem which is big indeed.

Asus is good but in India has pathetic after sales. If they have a good after sales in your place, you can consider them.

But personally, you can't go wrong with a MSI GD65.

Btw, I have a gigabyte p67a ud4 b3 currently and am planning to upgrade to z77 gd80 as soon as it launches.

 

[Slammy1]

I have the GD65 board and am extremely happy with everything. Smooth operation, no crashes, I am very happy after a bad run of Asus MoBos. This is purely anecdotal, ymmv.

 

[Un4given01]

Honestly, IMO, if i were building a Z68 system, i'd go with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157271.

Good reviews. Granted it's cheap in price, but it's got everything you would need, including the ability to overclock if you wanted it, which is something i would use. I've seen cheap motherboards maxed out that last longer than your super expensive boards.

If i weren't going to go with that board, i'd probably go with the Gigabyte UD4 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128507.

One thing to remember, is when you are buying a board, look through the reviews for tips and tricks regarding that specific board. Write them down, so if you do happen to hit issues, you can try those things that you came across. Did it with my MA785G-UD3H, and now everything is running flawlessly.

Regardless of what anyone says, there will always be the "pucker" factor when bying a new board. Hell, 99 people could say "It's a phenomenal board", and then you get yours, and poof, up in a cloud of smoke. But the chances of that happening are slim to none.

Hopefully i helped a little, but i wanted to offer my 2¢. lol