Mobo & cpu upgrade, need input: Update --> Now ordered.

[dennilfloss]

I am just about to upgrade my Mendocino Celeron 500 and Asus P3B-F (rev. 1.01, would not take Celermine or Coppermine even with new bios) and, since I need to change my mobo too, have decided to go the Duron way.

My funds are limited and I only play FPS occasionally, mostly RPGs and strategy games. My video card is a V770 (almost Ultra) and I will not upgrade this until next spring. I understand that this may be a bottleneck for my new cpu now but rc5 cracking and other applications (e.g. Photoshop) are a concern, not just gaming. I am running Windows 98 and my peripherals include a 20.5GB Quantum Fireball Plus LM HDD, A Ricoh MP7040A CD-RW, a 40x Aopen CD-ROM and a 2x LS-120 in lieu of FDD.

My ATX superminicase is very tidy and has good airflow. I intend to keep it. It has an 80mm front intake fan.

So far I do not intend to overclock. I am choosing the parts but the old guy at the mom & pop shop has always ordered them & done the physical work for me (I like to support the neighbourhood economy and he's located just 200' away, so sometimes I get housecalls for free). I may ask him to unlock my Duron with loctite. Just in case I get the itch later. However, stability is my main concern over speed. This combo will have to be able to crunch rc5 blocks 24/7 at default speed.

My choices are:

Motherboard: Microstar K7T Pro2-A
CPU: Duron 800MHz
HSF: Alpha PAL6035 with the Sanyo Denki 60x25mm fan
PS: Enermax EG-351P-V 350W

I do not know yet if all these parts are available in Canada. I am mostly concerned that these parts are appropriate and physically fit together.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Denis

 

[dennilfloss]

Also, since the Busmaster driver is included in the Via 4-in-1 drivers and it's supposed to cause problems and decrease performance, should I instead install only the three other individual drivers listed on Via's driver page?

 

[ronein]

Nice upgrade choice there Dennis!

On the P3-BF not accepting a coopermine, I have seen a lot of people use the same board with the newer processors; are you sure youre not missing anything?

 

[dennilfloss]

I have checked thoroughly at the ASUS site a couple of months ago. Revision 1.01 does not support the core voltage needed for ...mine processors, no matter the Bios. If I remember well, it had to be rev. 1.03. A new chart here for P3. Moreover, I am aware of the error in AsusProbe reporting some rev. 1.03 as rev.1.01. That was mentioned at that site. Pop checked the PCB on my mobo and, alas, I really do have rev.1.01 so it's a dead end in terms of upgrades. I will get some money from him for the cpu+mobo+HSF combo as he can sell this in a used system rather easily for someone upgrading their P133.

 

[mechBgon]

If you're going to unlock it, why buy the 800? How about the 700, that would help pay for the Alpha. I love the Alpha 6035, a versatile heatsink indeed. Excellent choice on the power supply too, the only hangup might be finding a place to stuff all the extra connectors and their (long) wires. Kudos to you for supporting your local store, too!

 

[Bakwetu]

It seems like a nice upgrade, but if you're short on funds perhaps you should consider a duron 700 instead (at least looking at the prices here in Sweden:$78 for the 700, $114 for the 800). Overclocking the 700 to 800 should be easy, probably even at default voltage. You could also save some money by choosing another heatsink if you're only going to do a mild overclock.

For 2d games and most rpg's your videocard should suffice for the time being.

Are you shure the mobo will fit your case?

 

[Assimilator1]

Dennis

If the cpu voltage is the only thing stopping you plugging in a Coppermine then what about using a slocket with its own VRM?.This overides the m/brds voltage .
Here's 1 example (darn link didn't work for me this time ,maybe you'll have better luck)

Soltek VRM Slocket

 

[dennilfloss]

The price difference between a Duron 700 and a Duron 800 in Ottawa is only $57 cam, i.e. $35US. My Mastercard can definitely live with this. I still am very unsure about overclocking it. At least, at 800 I get a nice default speed if I decide not to (I used to o/c my Mendocino 500 to 562 but reverted back to default when I started cracking and stopped using Rain...however, now I have an Alpha ). As for the connectors, I already have a HSF on my celeron, why should the Alpha need more connectors?

Going to check dimensions of P3B-F vs K7T Pro2A. BRB with results.

 

[dennilfloss]

Assimilator 1,

I already have a slotket for my FCPGA celeron 500 but the ASUS people said the voltage tweaking wouldn't work with this early revision. Anyway, I have decided on the Duron mostly because it cracks better, has a 200MHz FSB, will allow me to use my soon-to-come PC133 RAM (Christmas gift from my ex-wife) at 133 whereas my current PC100 RAM runs at 66MHz now. Also, the new mobo will allow my HDD to work at ATA66 rather than being stuck at ATA33 like it is now. So on top of the cpu factor, I get better use of my RAM and peripherals.

 

[dennilfloss]

Bakwetu,

Now you got me worried. Both mobos are said to be ATX form factor. The P3B-F is 30.4cm x 19.2cm whereas the K7T Pro2-A is 30.4cm x 20.3cm, 11mm wider .

I have opened my case :Q and there seems to be enough space around my P3B-F to account for an extra 11mm width however I am worried about the screwholes lining up properly. Are these set at standard distances in the ATX form factor? Removing the other panel and checking the plate that holds the mobo, I see 6 holes: 2 vertical rows of 3 holes each. The horizontal distance between the two rows is 13cm. Each column of three holes consist of a top hole, a 'middle hole located 6.5cm below it and a lower hole located 5cm below the middle one.

I have no idea if that fits the fastener locations on a K7T Pro2-A. Can someone tell me before I order if that causes a problem?

/me shivers at the thought.

If that helps, my case is 42cm long x 40cm high x 21cm wide.

 

[Assimilator1]

Dennis

The standard slockets had just voltage jumpers (at the most)to select a voltage from the m/brds VRM ,the above linked Slocket has its own VRM built onto it ,therefore over-riding the motherboards VRM & getting past the problem of cpu voltage.

Anyway ,its mute if you going to sell it ! ,BTW ATA66 won't give you any significant speed advantage with your current HDD.

 

[chansen]

Denis,

The only place in Canada I found with the MSI K7T Pro 2-A is Razor Computers in Scarborough, Ontario. His preferred method of shipment is COD. There is no storefront (just pickup from his house), so I made the pilgrimage across the city from Mississauga to pick up my order. Also of note is that the prices in his "Specials" section already include all taxes. You'll likely find your processor there.

Everything else looks great. Bonne chance!

Regards,
Craig

<edit> exceptionally confusing sentence

 

[SilverBack]

Hi Dennilfloss,
About your components... ;P

The Duron 800 is a safe bet.
I have my opinions on motherboards for the Duron and I would like to share.
I have 3 KT133 motherboards currently. Asus A7V, ABit KT7, and an EPOX EP-8KTA+
If you intend to ever overclock that Duron ( aw cmon you know you will )
Then any of these boards will do the job. The Epox is the least expensive and does a very good job. I'm an Abit fan and that would be my choice, it's solid as a rock. My main machine is a 1.1 GHZ running now at a very stable 1250MHz on the KT7. I have had problems with the A7V , but I was one of the 1st to get an early board, my experiences may be a thing of the past now.

About your HSF. The Alpha 6035 will only help your cooling by about 1 degree over the GlobalWin F0P32-1 which is a lot less money. I have all 3 of these, F0P32-1, F0P38, and a Alpha 6035 /black delta fan. The F0P38 is noisy but cools better than the Alpha.
The Duron becuase of it's lack of extra cash is a lot easier to cool than the Tbird counterpart.
The 6035 is overkill.
The money you save on the HSF and the Epox motherboard will pay for a new ATX case
SilverBack

 

[dennilfloss]

No Abit is getting near my case.

As for the Epox, I was considering the EP-8KTA2 but I want more stability. As for the Alpha with the Sanyo Denki fan, it should be obvious that silence is a major consideration of mine.

BTW, I do not wish to change my case. I happen to like it. It is rather silent and has a nice flat top on which I can put stuff. Otherwise I might have gotten a Fong Kai FK-603 and put the Enermax in there since it only has a 250w PS.

 

[SilverBack]

That's to bad. The KT7 is the best Duron, Tbird motherboard. Bar none.
For the HSF you should get the F0P32-1 then, it's very quiet.

 

[dennilfloss]

&quot;The KT7 is the best Duron, Tbird motherboard. Bar none.&quot;

Not according to Henry's review. I am very concerned about the lack of consistency amongst ABIT boards. Their quality (lack of) control is rather infamous.

I will try to find some info on the FOP32-1 noise level and cooling efficiency.

 

[dennilfloss]

Well, the FOP32-1 is about $20Can less than the Alpha in Canada and that is about the price difference here between an Enermax EG-351P-VE 330w PS and an Antec 300W PS. So it looks like I might get the GlobalWin instead of the Alpha since their performance is similar and I do want the Enermax. Since the PC is in my living room, quite far from my bed, I think I could live with the noise from the YS Tech 60x25mm fan.

But then I might still change my mind.

 

[Assimilator1]

I agree with SB about the Abit KT7 ,its one of the best Duron/T bird boards going.That 1 &amp; the Asus A7V.

 

[chansen]

It's good to hear high praise for a product instead of bashing all the time. All the same, I agree with you, Denis - you're still better off with the MSI board.

Regards,
Craig

 

[dennilfloss]

Well, I just talked to Pop and ordered the stuff.

Replacing my 256MB PC100 SDRAM with 256MB PC133 SDRAM (selling my old one to neighbour)

Replacing my Celeron 500MHz with a Duron 800MHz. I think I won't unlock it while it's on warranty. It'll get warm enough cracking rc5 24/7 and I think the speed increase will already be noticeable.

Adding a GlobalWin FOP32-1 for cooling. I prefer its 220g mass to the Alpha's 330g (which is above AMD specification according to Herr Pabst). Already have a case intake fan. Will simply use a drill to sligthly enlarge the holes in front of it.

Replacing my P3B-F with a K7T Pro2A. Pop is looking for Canadian distributors. If none are found, he'll contact the bloke at Razor Computers. He may want to become a MSI reseller.

Replacing generic 250W power supply with a 330W Enermax EG-351P-VE.

That will be all for this year (yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight ).

 

[Assimilator1]

Nice system

 

[SirFshAlot]

Denil,
you should be happy with that setup.
I got my Pro2-A and Duron800 running smoothly right now.
I will let it go at 800 for a bit before I start fiddling with the OC settings.

I got an Enermax 303 coming from a Flea-bay bid.
I got some of that PC150 128mb stuff from AccessMicro that was over in HotDeals a little bit ago, and I got it running at 133mhz, Cas 2, with no problems so far.

I got a Taisol HSF from here and it keeps my cpu around 35c.

Let us know once you're up and running.

Craig

 

[dennilfloss]

Friday I'm imaging my D drive and backing up to CD other stuff on my C (OS) drive. My RAM is here so I'll go Saturday and get this done.

I'm just wondering if, when I change the mobo and cpu, I should use Drive Image to restore my previous C drive clean install or manually do a new one (particularly because of the Via 4-in-1 drivers and also because of new settings for the new mobo) and then make an image of this new one for future restore. Can using a clean-install image that was done with a different mobo/cpu combo cause problems? Maybe I should just spend a couple of hours to reinstall Windows98 and my drivers manually, just to avoid problems.

 

[Assimilator1]

I would do a fresh install to be on the safe side.
You could patch your old OS to work with the Duron mobo &amp; it should theoritically be OK ,but then again.....
Of course you could just suck it &amp; see

 

[dennilfloss]

Pop also wants to fdo a totally fresh install and then image that one with the duron settings. BTW, I installed the new SDRAM today. 256MB PC133 CAS2. The amazing thing it's that it's generic CAS2. I did not know there was such a thing. But Pop guarantees that it will do 133 CAS2.