Mo' Money Mo' Problems, OR California still sucks

[StageLeft]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget23-2009dec23,0,7164018.story

Governator asking for $8B or else will have to slash back state programs (again). Probably the great state of New York can't be that far behind. Our exorbitant taxes cannot possibly satiate the drug, I mean money-crazed state.

I wonder if they'll pull this off and how many other states will jump in asking for more than what has already come their way.

 

[Argo]

I've always been interested in seeing details of California's financial troubles. They obviously rack in more in taxes than every other state - so what is that money being spent on? I realize the "social programs" and "illegal immigrants" are the popular ones to blame, but an actual break down would be cool to see.

 

[Zebo]

California is just a precursor to national problems - The US as you know it is shutting down. Concentric contraction can not be stopped without jobs, without money flowing to vast bottom and middle instead of Obama's Bonused Banker Buddies, problem is people, states, municipalities are tapped, in debt to Obama's Bonused Banker Buddies with no wherewithal to borrow. 30 years of Extend and pretend is over.

I hope you still have your Canadian citizenship Skoorby

 

[boomerang]

California is just a precursor to national problems - The US as you know it is shutting down. Concentric contraction can not be stopped without jobs, without money flowing to vast bottom and middle instead of Obama's Bonused Banker Buddies, problem is people, states, municipalities are tapped, in debt to Obama's Bonused Banker Buddies with no wherewithal to borrow. 30 years of Extend and pretend is over.

New taxes on the horizon too. That should just about guarantee our future. You hit it on the head, 30 years coming. We might have had a chance without leadership intent on a decades old wish list of social issues. That would have been great stuff to implement in a healthy economy. In the one we have - not so much.

I hope you still have your Canadian citizenship Skoorby

No kidding. I envy anyone with an easy means to escape. I think your kids were born here right Skoorb? If you decided or needed to leave, would there be problems with them crossing the border for good? Do they have dual citizenship? I have a grandson with dual citizenship having been born to U.S. parents in Italy.

I don't mean to pry, if it's none of my business, ignore the questions or tell me off.

 

[Zebo]

I have faith in this younger gen to tell bankers who own everything to FO and die one day. Remember wealth and distribution of it is just a legal construct, can be modified or restructured at will.. We still have America and all it's great human and hard assets and they are plenty to sustain all.

Social issues are chump change compared to real rip offs. And social welfare would'nt cost half if it weren't for the rip off as more people would be employed. Some of the errors included easing tariffs, outsourcing, MFN, NAFTA, private gains from banking, natural resources, speculating, and when anything goes wrong hit up tax payer for loses, if you're big enough.. We staved off 90's disaster with tech boom which created 21 million jobs, then housing boom, subsequent HELOC cash, and warfare maintained those jobs for the most part - what's the next scam we can try?

 

[Mursilis]

I have faith in this younger gen

I think that faith is VERY misplaced. Why would this generation defy its nature, when the last several thousand have not?

 

[her209]

I've always been interested in seeing details of California's financial troubles. They obviously rack in more in taxes than every other state - so what is that money being spent on? I realize the "social programs" and "illegal immigrants" are the popular ones to blame, but an actual break down would be cool to see.

According to this PDF, Heath and Human Services (32,826M) and K-12 Education (35,653M) receive the bulk of the money. The next highest two are Business, Transportation & Housing (12,546M) and Higher Education (12,206M).

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

I think that faith is VERY misplaced. Why would this generation defy its nature, when the last several thousand have not?

I agree. What faith is there to be had? The general US population pays more attention to American Idol and Dancing with the Stars than they pay attention to what is happening to their own country.

 

[Slew Foot]

According to this PDF, Heath and Human Services (32,826M) and K-12 Education (35,653M) receive the bulk of the money. The next highest two are Business, Transportation & Housing (12,546M) and Higher Education (12,206M).

I hear CA has 33% of the welfare cases in the country, providing them with health care and housing credits must be expensive. Not to mention the sweet deals the labor unions have in this state.

 

[fskimospy]

As is the same in every thread about California, it appears that people don't actually know what California's troubles are. It's extremely simple:

1.) It requires 50.1% to pass new spending.
2.) It requires 66.6% to pass taxes to pay for the spending.
3.) Proposition system.

This has been gone over many times. California's constitution is insanely horrible and it creates huge problems for running the state.

 

[JS80]

As is the same in every thread about California, it appears that people don't actually know what California's troubles are. It's extremely simple:

1.) It requires 50.1% to pass new spending.
2.) It requires 66.6% to pass taxes to pay for the spending.
3.) Proposition system.

This has been gone over many times. California's constitution is insanely horrible and it creates huge problems for running the state.

CA would be more in the hole if it were easier to pass taxes because you idiots think raising tax rates = higher revenue.

 

[fskimospy]

CA would be more in the hole if it were easier to pass taxes because you idiots think raising tax rates = higher revenue.

Because it does.

If you're trying to argue that taxes in the US are near the upward bound of the Laffer curve so that increasing them would lead to decreased revenues, you are ignorant of history... and retarded.

 

[rudder]

[arnold voice]We need wata! We need wata![/arnold voice]

 

[JS80]

Because it does.

If you're trying to argue that taxes in the US are near the upward bound of the Laffer curve so that increasing them would lead to decreased revenues, you are ignorant of history... and retarded.

You are the retard. CA already has one of the highest tax rates. Raising the income tax rate from 9.3% to anything will not make a dent in the $10 billion hole. It will further drive businesses out, push the exodus of human capital, financial capital, and with companies breaking even or taking a loss right now due to the recession, any increase in tax rates will do nothing.

 

[werepossum]

You are the retard. CA already has one of the highest tax rates. Raising the income tax rate from 9.3% to anything will not make a dent in the $10 billion hole. It will further drive businesses out, push the exodus of human capital, financial capital, and with companies breaking even or taking a loss right now due to the recession, any increase in tax rates will do nothing.

Liberals operate on the Magic Cupboard theory of economics. Ergo you'll never convince a liberal that raising tax rates won't fix whatever problems happen to exist at the moment. If a hike in tax rates doesn't fix a certain problem, that only means that tax hike was too small or not properly concentrated on the rich. If a hike in tax rates makes individuals or companies leave the state (or country), then the proper response is to find ways to forcibly prevent those individuals or companies from leaving the state (or country) or, failing that, to continue to tax them in their new home.

Unfortunately tax cuts suffer problems as well, not the least of which is the lag between tax cuts and increased tax receipts; I'm a pretty conservative guy and I can see that. California would certainly benefit in the long run if it could cut its tax rates and its social spending, but on the national stage the economy is managed by the Fed to keep growth to 3 or perhaps 4 percent annually, after the runaway inflation of the Nixon to early Reagan years. Therefore the potential increased tax receipts through growth is severely limited. We've dug ourselves a deep hole - and we're still addicted to digging. And our choice in leadership is between a party that wants to dig a lot faster and the party that wants to dig a little faster.

And of course, Saint Algore tells us that just a couple kilometers down the Earth is several million degrees, so we're REALLY screwed.

 

[piasabird]

Look for higher taxes.

 

[Ns1]

CA would be more in the hole if it were easier to pass taxes because you idiots think raising tax rates = higher revenue.

Except he has a very good point.

Expenses > Revenues = fail

And no rep. wants to stick out their neck for higher taxes.

 

[Patranus]

And we are seeing the result of 80 years of FDRs policies.
The majority of taxes collected should be collected by the state/county/city and NOT the federal government.

Funding should not be a political favor to a municipality by the federal government.

Funding should not be diluted by several layers a bureaucracy before it gets it those that are spending it.

The federal government needs to drastically cut taxes allowing local municipalities to raise their base tax rates. The only downside to this is that the federal government loses it control over the state...boo hoo...

 

[werepossum]

And we are seeing the result of 80 years of FDRs policies.
The majority of taxes collected should be collected by the state/county/city and NOT the federal government.

Funding should not be a political favor to a municipality by the federal government.

Funding should not be diluted by several layers a bureaucracy before it gets it those that are spending it.

The federal government needs to drastically cut taxes allowing local municipalities to raise their base tax rates. The only downside to this is that the federal government loses it control over the state...boo hoo...

Amen.

 

[PokerGuy]

Because it does.

If you're trying to argue that taxes in the US are near the upward bound of the Laffer curve so that increasing them would lead to decreased revenues, you are ignorant of history... and retarded.

It's not because of the laffer curve, the problem is that Cali is at the point where further increases in taxes will simply drive more businesses out of the state into other states, making the problem worse.

 

[fskimospy]

You are the retard. CA already has one of the highest tax rates. Raising the income tax rate from 9.3% to anything will not make a dent in the $10 billion hole. It will further drive businesses out, push the exodus of human capital, financial capital, and with companies breaking even or taking a loss right now due to the recession, any increase in tax rates will do nothing.

By all means point me to the research that you are getting this information from. That is unless you just made it up like you do most of your other posts.

Parroting extremist right wing ideology isn't actually a substitute for evidence.

 

[fskimospy]

Liberals operate on the Magic Cupboard theory of economics. Ergo you'll never convince a liberal that raising tax rates won't fix whatever problems happen to exist at the moment. If a hike in tax rates doesn't fix a certain problem, that only means that tax hike was too small or not properly concentrated on the rich. If a hike in tax rates makes individuals or companies leave the state (or country), then the proper response is to find ways to forcibly prevent those individuals or companies from leaving the state (or country) or, failing that, to continue to tax them in their new home.

Unfortunately tax cuts suffer problems as well, not the least of which is the lag between tax cuts and increased tax receipts; I'm a pretty conservative guy and I can see that. California would certainly benefit in the long run if it could cut its tax rates and its social spending, but on the national stage the economy is managed by the Fed to keep growth to 3 or perhaps 4 percent annually, after the runaway inflation of the Nixon to early Reagan years. Therefore the potential increased tax receipts through growth is severely limited. We've dug ourselves a deep hole - and we're still addicted to digging. And our choice in leadership is between a party that wants to dig a lot faster and the party that wants to dig a little faster.

And of course, Saint Algore tells us that just a couple kilometers down the Earth is several million degrees, so we're REALLY screwed.

Remember when we had our little conversation about straw men?

 

[Craig234]

Liberals operate on the Magic Cupboard theory of economics. Ergo you'll never convince a liberal that raising tax rates won't fix whatever problems happen to exist at the moment. If a hike in tax rates doesn't fix a certain problem, that only means that tax hike was too small or not properly concentrated on the rich. If a hike in tax rates makes individuals or companies leave the state (or country), then the proper response is to find ways to forcibly prevent those individuals or companies from leaving the state (or country) or, failing that, to continue to tax them in their new home.

Unfortunately tax cuts suffer problems as well, not the least of which is the lag between tax cuts and increased tax receipts; I'm a pretty conservative guy and I can see that. California would certainly benefit in the long run if it could cut its tax rates and its social spending, but on the national stage the economy is managed by the Fed to keep growth to 3 or perhaps 4 percent annually, after the runaway inflation of the Nixon to early Reagan years. Therefore the potential increased tax receipts through growth is severely limited. We've dug ourselves a deep hole - and we're still addicted to digging. And our choice in leadership is between a party that wants to dig a lot faster and the party that wants to dig a little faster.

And of course, Saint Algore tells us that just a couple kilometers down the Earth is several million degrees, so we're REALLY screwed.

werepossum operates on the method of straw men.

Edit: Dang, that's twice in the last hour with Eskimospy.

 

[Craig234]

It's not because of the laffer curve, the problem is that Cali is at the point where further increases in taxes will simply drive more businesses out of the state into other states, making the problem worse.

Depends who you tax. Just as in the US, most Americans are taxed more heavily, so the top few can get all the wealth generatged by growth in the economy. Tax *them*.

 

[Slew Foot]

<stupid liberal>
We already have the highest taxes in the country and cant raise enough money, I know we'll raise taxes more!
</stupid liberal>