[MMO] World of Tanks

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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,068
498
126
So you have observed chance and statistics.
And?
Are you being intentionally obtuse to my objection to them allowing such a match to be made in the first place? Do you think this is a healthy matching algorithm to ever allow such a match to take place?
 

LurkerPrime

Senior member
Aug 11, 2010
962
0
71
Are you being intentionally obtuse to my objection to them allowing such a match to be made in the first place? Do you think this is a healthy matching algorithm to ever allow such a match to take place?
It's not WGs job to prevent these types of matches. Its why its called "random" battle. Sometimes the odds are stacked against you, sometimes the odds are in your favor. At least they are implementing ranked games in the future (seperate from random games).

It's funny how everyone cries about bad people on thier team, but they never ever thank that unicum platoon that carried thier bad asses to a win.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,068
498
126
It's not WGs job to prevent these types of matches. Its why its called "random" battle. Sometimes the odds are stacked against you, sometimes the odds are in your favor. At least they are implementing ranked games in the future (seperate from random games).

It's funny how everyone cries about bad people on thier team, but they never ever thank that unicum platoon that carried thier bad asses to a win.
Come on really? The people who design the MM dont have the job of preventing such a lopsided match? If they dont have the job or creating a fair match why are Tier 1s not stuck with Tier 10s? Afterall it sounds like the only thing the MM is supposed to do is randomly pit 15 players vs 15 other players. T1 vs T10? Tough shit, it is a statistical anomly and bad chance. Enjoy the pounding, they are going in dry.
 

mclee025

Member
Apr 9, 2012
28
0
0
Here is my advice. Take a step back to a tier 1 or 2 tank. They are all basically the same: No armor to speak of, guns that can pen eachother decently (except the ultra armored H35 variants), about equally fast, etc. You see less maps, you can figure out ways to exploit certain things on maps (I am looking at you himmelsdorf). You learn the importance of flanking, staying the hell out of the firing lines of TD's (which will stay with you for life), understand when a push can help win a flank and when it is suicidal (something I have yet to learn with my 17k battles).
...
Llwellyn, I like Possessed Freak's advice.

Basically, you're not having fun in the game and are on the verge of giving up on it for whatever reasons (feeling that you're not good as you expect you should be, etc.). I think taking a step back to the lower tiers is good as it resets things for you.

If you have too, start a new account (even if it's only for temporary use) and start real fresh (leaving the past behind -- at least for a while). I think you need to find where the game is fun for you again. That's the reason most of us are playing after-all. Find that fun sweet spot for yourself and enjoy the game just for playing. You don't need to be playing high tiers if it's not enjoyable for you.

Aside from relearning the basics again, going back to tier ones and twos can be a lot of fun anyway. I've recently gone back to help a friend who just started the game and I'm finding a lot of joy revisiting tanks I used to think were bad. It turns out, I was just bad when I drove them as a newb ... LOL!

To each his own, but for me the T1 and the LTractor are a blast to play with their fast firing machine guns that have multiple bursts (make sure to reaim between bursts). The T1 has better mobility, but it's reload between canisters is slow (about 10 seconds). The LTractor is slow but its reload is only about 3 seconds.

Here's some tips I've learned for the lower tiers that may be useful:

Since lower tiers have almost no armor, always stay close to hard cover so that you have a safe place to hide from enemy fire (especially when you're reloading your gun). Be very careful if you have to go out in the open.

Use the "C" to reload whenever you have a partially expended canister and have cover and time to reload.
 

LurkerPrime

Senior member
Aug 11, 2010
962
0
71
Come on really? The people who design the MM dont have the job of preventing such a lopsided match? If they dont have the job or creating a fair match why are Tier 1s not stuck with Tier 10s? Afterall it sounds like the only thing the MM is supposed to do is randomly pit 15 players vs 15 other players. T1 vs T10? Tough shit, it is a statistical anomly and bad chance. Enjoy the pounding, they are going in dry.
Well at least it keeps the games fair in that regard based on tanks and tiers. It can't accurately predict how players are going to perform in a single match though, any more accurately than I can predict what space a roulette ball will stop on. I've seen 45%ers do 3k+ damage, and I've seen 60%ers do 0 damage in a game.

The issue is that once bad things happen, the effect can easily snowball into a steamroll once a team gets the advantage. All it takes is a luck arty shot or some shit to start the ball rolling. A lucky first shot ammo rack, or a scout getting through to all the arty. One team having an afk/botter/Tker, etc... Shit happens, you live, you learn, and you roll the dice and play another match.

The best advice though is to be good yourself, and have some good friends. That way you can take some of the randomness out of the MM, as your team will always have at least 3 good people. Its the easiest way to stack the odds in your favor.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
Come on really? The people who design the MM dont have the job of preventing such a lopsided match? If they dont have the job or creating a fair match why are Tier 1s not stuck with Tier 10s? Afterall it sounds like the only thing the MM is supposed to do is randomly pit 15 players vs 15 other players. T1 vs T10? Tough shit, it is a statistical anomly and bad chance. Enjoy the pounding, they are going in dry.
15 vs 15 random players yes.
But not tier 1 vs tier 10(unnless platooned in).
I have a feeling you know ZERO about the MM with that remark, please read up.

And remember WG have the russian stance.
A Maus platooning in a LOLtractor...they have no problem with...they won't ban it.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
Llwellyn, I like Possessed Freak's advice.

Basically, you're not having fun in the game and are on the verge of giving up on it for whatever reasons (feeling that you're not good as you expect you should be, etc.). I think taking a step back to the lower tiers is good as it resets things for you.

If you have too, start a new account (even if it's only for temporary use) and start real fresh (leaving the past behind -- at least for a while). I think you need to find where the game is fun for you again. That's the reason most of us are playing after-all. Find that fun sweet spot for yourself and enjoy the game just for playing. You don't need to be playing high tiers if it's not enjoyable for you.

Aside from relearning the basics again, going back to tier ones and twos can be a lot of fun anyway. I've recently gone back to help a friend who just started the game and I'm finding a lot of joy revisiting tanks I used to think were bad. It turns out, I was just bad when I drove them as a newb ... LOL!

To each his own, but for me the T1 and the LTractor are a blast to play with their fast firing machine guns that have multiple bursts (make sure to reaim between bursts). The T1 has better mobility, but it's reload between canisters is slow (about 10 seconds). The LTractor is slow but its reload is only about 3 seconds.

Here's some tips I've learned for the lower tiers that may be useful:

Since lower tiers have almost no armor, always stay close to hard cover so that you have a safe place to hide from enemy fire (especially when you're reloading your gun). Be very careful if you have to go out in the open.

Use the "C" to reload whenever you have a partially expended canister and have cover and time to reload.
I have to say, that the STOCK gun on the LOLTractor is the best choice, going flak on that tank is a downgrade.
Best part...the stock AP rounds...are FREE.
And my LOLTractor fires a shot around every 2 secs...take 3-5 shot to kill another low tier tank...and it WILL pen.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
pretty sure the MM is just a complete crapshoot. It adds up weights from random tanks it picks from the people in queue and then tosses them in a game. It doesn't take into account of player skills at all, just a complete random dice roll. With the vast majority of players being bad, it's a crapshoot with who lands on your team.

I notice that if you play during prime time (right after 2x resets) you're likely to get shit teams. The distribution at the least seems fairly normal and not "rigged". I end up carrying about 3/5 of every game so it seems about right.

Unfortunately I don't platoon with good players so the best I can eek out is a 58%, and it's unlikely I'll ever go above 60% solopub unless I start padding with baby seal clubbing tanks.

Also feel churchills should have about half the weight it currently has. The tanks are complete shit, including the black prince.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
Just had a "funny" game.
http://mwreplays.com/replay/EA8R9SN7GIXV/

A low stat JagdPanther acts all though...and calls us all "idiots".

I make fun of him.

He fires at me...I don't care if it was meant as a warning shot or he missed...you do that towards me, I WILL defend myself.

I kill the JP, he keeps screaming in chat...while I kill 3 more tanks and push to Victory.
Afterwards he contacts with this:
SCREEN44 (20:51:04) so mach dich bereit für eine anzeige wegen öffentlicher verleumdung

SCREEN44 (20:51:38) we see us on court...

Terracide (20:59:03) LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Terracide (20:59:09) Good luck n00b...

Terracide (20:59:40) I'm not german....so knock your panties off...
Terracide (21:01:39) But...if you want too show the whole world how you first insult an entire team, get put in your place, goes babymad and tries to hit me...misses....gets killed in a 1 vs 1...and I go on to kill several enemies, live and win....go ahead...idiot.
I then upped the replay, linked it to him...and now he posted a message about me killing him with "gold ammo"...ZZZzZZZZzzz....n00bs!!!
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,068
498
126
15 vs 15 random players yes.
But not tier 1 vs tier 10(unnless platooned in).
I have a feeling you know ZERO about the MM with that remark, please read up.

And remember WG have the russian stance.
A Maus platooning in a LOLtractor...they have no problem with...they won't ban it.
It is like you arent reading what I am writing...
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,068
498
126
Im just returning the favour...
I've responded to every one of your inane posts about statistics, chance, ect with my complaint about that game I played. Wargaming needs to account for winrate in their MM is the bottom line. A game should never have that kind of makeup in its players. Is that easy enough for you to understand?

Please dont come back with more useless crap about statistics.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
I've responded to every one of your inane posts about statistics, chance, ect with my complaint about that game I played. Wargaming needs to account for winrate in their MM is the bottom line. A game should never have that kind of makeup in its players. Is that easy enough for you to understand?

Please dont come back with more useless crap about statistics.
You keep whining...dosn't make you right though.

And that MM isn't ranked isn't a major issue, most of the times I can overcome a bad team and still do good.

The real problem are fucktards in platoons that should'nt be playing, like this game:


It makes it VERY hard to do any sort of good gaming...when all players are nuggets, not able to put a stick in a turd without breaking both...and breaking their arm in the process.

But you can overcome these fucktards too:


I see bad players forming platoons as much worse than the MM.

So keep whining...won't make bad players any better.
They will still suck...no matter the opposing team.

6 died in that battle doing zero damage.
And I got ~2 times the XP of the scond "best" player on my team.

And learn to accept...very few of us cares about your feeling about MM being "unfair"...now that we come past your tinfoilhat stuff and have figured out it's just math, chance and statistics you don't like.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,648
61
101
Lonbjerg leaves written feces all over the forum. Didn't you guys know? However, when you call him out to back up his claims with the personal knowledge he claims to have, the know it all literally disappears from the thread. Try it, it works wonders! :)
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
Lonbjerg leaves written feces all over the forum. Didn't you guys know? However, when you call him out to back up his claims with the personal knowledge he claims to have, the know it all literally disappears from the thread. Try it, it works wonders! :)
Boring Ad hominem...reported
 
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Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
I've responded to every one of your inane posts about statistics, chance, ect with my complaint about that game I played. Wargaming needs to account for winrate in their MM is the bottom line. A game should never have that kind of makeup in its players. Is that easy enough for you to understand?

Please dont come back with more useless crap about statistics.
How in the world are they supposed to do that? And what do they base it on? The win/loss rate of your account overall? The win/loss rate of the tank you're currently piloting? Maybe the w/l rate of the Tier tank you're piloting? Or will they factor in whether you're in a TD, a light, a medium or a heavy?

And what if you're in a platoon? Do they have to put a platoon on the other side with players that match the stats of your platoon? Or do they average the w/r's? What if one platoon has 3 members and other has 2? And do you have to sit in the lobby until the MM can find a way to match you or your platoon to your "perfect opposite number" for the other team?

Etc, etc, etc.

There are just too many scenarios when opening that particular can of worms.

As as been said, just take your lumps with the bad teams and enjoy playing with the good teams. I've had many, MANY battles end in losses while I managed to accumulate 2x or 3x the XP of the next person on my team. It sucks, but it all averages out in the end.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,068
498
126
Lonbjerg leaves written feces all over the forum. Didn't you guys know? However, when you call him out to back up his claims with the personal knowledge he claims to have, the know it all literally disappears from the thread. Try it, it works wonders! :)
He is certainly great at building strawman arguments to shoot down. He is still rambling on about me thinking it is some conspiracy I got put on a side with so many bad players. When all I am saying is such a match should never be spit out of the MM. If he does or doesnt agree with me is fine. But he cant get off blabbing about statistics and poor luck. Of course it was bad luck to have such a shitty team. I think we can all agree with that. But my point was the MM should be designed so such a match never happens.
 
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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,068
498
126
How in the world are they supposed to do that? And what do they base it on? The win/loss rate of your account overall? The win/loss rate of the tank you're currently piloting? Maybe the w/l rate of the Tier tank you're piloting? Or will they factor in whether you're in a TD, a light, a medium or a heavy?

And what if you're in a platoon? Do they have to put a platoon on the other side with players that match the stats of your platoon? Or do they average the w/r's? What if one platoon has 3 members and other has 2? And do you have to sit in the lobby until the MM can find a way to match you or your platoon to your "perfect opposite number" for the other team?

Etc, etc, etc.

There are just too many scenarios when opening that particular can of worms.

As as been said, just take your lumps with the bad teams and enjoy playing with the good teams. I've had many, MANY battles end in losses while I managed to accumulate 2x or 3x the XP of the next person on my team. It sucks, but it all averages out in the end.


I think it win rate can be a criteria for the MM. People dont get into the low to mid 50s or higher because they are a crappy player. And they arent in the middle to higher 40s because they are a good player that has had really bad luck. The players I have played with definately show their win rate when playing games over time. Yeah, you can have a crappy game or two. But overall your game play usually falls right in line with your win\rate.

When it comes to platooning it is possible to make the teams somewhat even. It doesnt have to be perfect. But certainly what happened on Sunday can be avoided. 3 players on one team who were over 50% while the rest were in the 40s. While the other team all the players were over 52%.

The results for this game were obvious from the start. The bads(sub 50) were slaughtered wholesale. The 3 decent players on the team were the only ones who did any damage and inflicted the only kills.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
He is certainly great at building strawmen arguments to shoot down. He is still rambling on about me thinking it is some conspiracy I got put on a side with so many bad players. When all I am saying is such a match should never be spit out of the MM. If he does or doesnt agree with me is fine. But he cant get off blabbing about statistics and poor luck. Of course it was bad luck to have such a shitty team. I think we can all agree with that. But my point was the MM should be designed so such a match never happens.
I'm not the only one saying it...read the tread, instead of going all whiney with you "Allies" over me.
The problem isn't me...

Let see what you typed, hoping no one will remember now:

I cant remember every time because it happens so often now. We had game after game like this. Games where our team would get 1-3 kills in a steamrolling.

But that still doesnt explain how the MM can possibly place an entire team of players that are 52+% against a bunch of sub 50 players.
What do you mean what is the problem? Good players vs bad players? This isnt a weighted issue where one side gets 2-3 more players. The entire effing team was as good or better than 3 of the top on one team. That should never happen.
Then you get a reply...not from me...about the tinfoil part:
tinfoil hat stuff here. It really is.
You don't get it:
What is tin foil hat stuff?
Another poster chimes in, saying the same thing....you are wrong:
The matches are all random. MM doesn't look at you or your w/r and decide to put you on the side with the shittier or better people. Over time the only consistant factor in the game is you and the people you're platooned with. Everyone's had that streak of games that they just couldn't win, shit happens. The problem is, people remember that time they lost 10 games in a row (due to MM), but never remember the 10 in a row that they won (which was due to thier awesome skills, not MM btw).

Just remember, in order to win a match, you must first overcome your own team.
I reply too...AFTER this:
Your assertion about MM and player winrates.

MM dosn't look at player stats.
It only looks at the tank and it's tier.

Any "pattern" your percieve...is down to chance and statistics.

Hence:
/tinfoil-hat

And you keep whing about WHO it shouldn't happen.

Find one poster in this thread WHO plays WOT...and agrees with you.

It's not me that is the problem here...it's you...and people trying to go after me, when they have nothing but empty whines ^^

So stop being dishoenst...okay...you suck at playing "holy".

All you have done right now is show you don't know anything about how the MM works.
 
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Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
Î just had to lol at this:



For none EU players:

Siema/siemka is what polish players type in chat while the clock tics.
On EU there is a saying: "Siema = I surrender"

There is a sad trend of bad players typing "siema" on the EU server, don't know if anything similar excists on the NA server.
 

icefhishin

Member
May 15, 2005
78
0
61
since unicrums make up less than 1 percent of the playing population, how would said unicrums ever find a match? I'm tired of reading posts from shitty players saying WOT needs a skill based MM.

heres an idea for you shitty whiners:
less than 1k eff you cannot play anything higher than a tier5 (exception for premiums)
less than 1400k eff you play 6-8
over 1400k no limits

skill based MM implemented. for the record, my win7 is 1826, old eff is 1745,and win rate of 57 percent.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
0
0
since unicrums make up less than 1 percent of the playing population, how would said unicrums ever find a match? I'm tired of reading posts from shitty players saying WOT needs a skill based MM.

heres an idea for you shitty whiners:
less than 1k eff you cannot play anything higher than a tier5 (exception for tier8 premiums)
less than 1400k eff you play 6-8
over 1400k no limits

skill based MM implemented. for the record, my win7 is 1826, old eff is 1745,and win rate of 57 percent.
Shame on you...now I will get flak..because you don't agree with Genx87...just wait and see ;)
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,861
3
81
Hope this is not frowned upon here but you guys have a fairly healthy thread here for the game and thought I'd post here instead of elsewhere. Just picked up a new Nvidia card and got the bonus World of Tanks credit:

"7500 Gold & 1 Month Premium Invite: 2500 Gold"

I will not be using it and thought I'd offer it cheap (well, cheap to me) if anybody was interested. Says it's worth $50. Just shoot me a PM.

EDIT: Gone for cheap, enjoy anonymous purchaser.
 
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