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MLB scandal, World Series winning Astros were stealing signs... give back those rings?

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Should everyone on the 2017 Houston Astros who received a World Series ring have to return it?


  • Total voters
    14

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
28,196
1,883
126
You might have to strip Boston of their win in 2018 if you do this. The common denominator? Alex Cora. He's going to go down in flames when this is all done.

They didn't strip the Houston Asterisks (no typo), they aren't going to strip the Red Sox
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
28,196
1,883
126
Kind of agree with this... Comes from Logan morriesy of the Phillies I believe.

View attachment 15708


Sort of agree, sort of disagree. I mean - this concept isn't anything new, it's been a common practice for when you have a guy on 2nd base to watch the signs and try to communicate back as well.

The problem obviously is bringing in a professional live video camera and having it stream back to your dugout in real time.
Logan Morrison is an idiot, first off.

Secondly, certainly "stealing signs" has been in the game since the dawn of time. The problem with the Astros etc is, as you pointed out, that it ws done using technology and was a systemic design and implementation throughout the organization - one given a DISTINCT advantage to the home team for that matter. It is pretty much the most egregious cheating to ever take place in professional sports. It's way worse that the Black Sox players (banned) and Pete Rose (banned)
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
24,626
1,126
126
Every player that benefitted should be banned from the game. Every coach involved should be banned from the game. For life. Wayyyy more egregious than what Rose did. Cork your bat? Shoot some roids? Steal some signs? GTFO.
Well, I figure if you were playing for them you were in a tough spot. What could you do? Blow the whistle? Demand a trade? But MLB should do something to make it clear to anyone thinking about doing this going forward is blowing it for sure.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
24,626
1,126
126
How many yutes even follow baseball these days?
Well, when I was getting the SF Chronicle (daily for quite a few years until about 6 months ago) I was amazed that they never stopped talking about baseball in the sports section. So, evidently for a lot of people MLB is something they think about year around. Myself, I don't pay much attention most of the time. I don't watch even OTA games on TV. I guess I watched a few of the WS games, IIRC the only ones that were OTA in the playoffs. Subscription TV has a stranglehold on baseball and NBA. NFL much less so, for whatever reasons. NFL probably figures they make more money just broadcasting a lot of games OTA.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
24,626
1,126
126
Would be too easy to do to not do it. Likely happens often.
That's what I was thinking. So, MLB if they care about being legit have to make it not worth it. But it might be hard to prevent. Think... banging a trash can. How about a sign in the stands, could be a flashing light. How the hell can you insure that it's not going on? Is there an alternative way a pitcher and catcher can communicate signs that's cheat proof?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,323
5,663
126
Logan Morrison is an idiot, first off.

Secondly, certainly "stealing signs" has been in the game since the dawn of time. The problem with the Astros etc is, as you pointed out, that it ws done using technology and was a systemic design and implementation throughout the organization - one given a DISTINCT advantage to the home team for that matter. It is pretty much the most egregious cheating to ever take place in professional sports. It's way worse that the Black Sox players (banned) and Pete Rose (banned)
Correct, this is not about stealing signs, which is not against the rules by itself, and has always been part of the game. It is the use of technology to steal signs which is against the rules, because it can create an unfair home team advantage. And this isn't a new rule either, IIRC it goes back to the 1950s when the NY Giants got caught using a telescope to steal signs.
 
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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,369
1,312
126
You might have to strip Boston of their win in 2018 if you do this. The common denominator? Alex Cora. He's going to go down in flames when this is all done.

There are way too many people involved to get away with it. People change teams, a few people still have ethics. Can't believe he thought he could do it with two teams and not get caught.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
3,655
1,068
136
My response to this story is who cares if a bunch of millionaires slightly cheated a bunch of other millionaires in a non-inclusive and 3rd or 4th most popular game in the US that makes only billionaires richer?

My second issue is this is a way way less worse thing than the steroid scandal and MLB didn't make people give trophies during that period.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
493
418
96
Given the amount of money that goes through sports, you would think there would be stricter rules and guidelines that are actually enforced. People aren't just playing and winning for a title. There is a considerable amount of $$$ that comes with a win. And a considerable amount of $$$ that is lost if you aren't the winner - lives and careers are ruined.

They ruined the lives of other players, because they cheated. If you don't take their rings away, then they cheated, won and got away with it. That fine is utter bullshit.

Furthermore, they don't deserve the win, because they didn't use their athletic skills to win.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
12,114
1,915
126
Baseball kinda just sucks these days. I still love a good Cubs game though....

I find it nuts that teams like Yankees and Red Sox can effectively buy ANY player that they desire, while the other 30 or so teams can't.

Anyhow this definitely made me laugh - The ONE and only win that the Astros have will forever have an asterisk next to it hehe



And yeah - cheating in sports is so rampant from a 'roids perspective... Not using that to justify this cheating in the slightest, just saying that cheating is so rampant these days overall.
They got to get these frigging pitchers from doing the Ed Norton (honey mooners) routine every friggin batter they meet. Speed up the friggin game!!!!!!!!!!!! There some OCD batters out there also.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,994
13,966
136
Logan Morrison is an idiot, first off.

Secondly, certainly "stealing signs" has been in the game since the dawn of time. The problem with the Astros etc is, as you pointed out, that it ws done using technology and was a systemic design and implementation throughout the organization - one given a DISTINCT advantage to the home team for that matter. It is pretty much the most egregious cheating to ever take place in professional sports. It's way worse that the Black Sox players (banned) and Pete Rose (banned)
I don't see how it's worse than the Black Sox. I'd say they are about the same.
 

Hans Gruber

Senior member
Dec 23, 2006
807
191
116
I was asking how it was possible for both Houston and Boston to be able to hit 100mph fastballs so well during the playoffs.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Senior member
Nov 17, 2019
657
265
96
Given the amount of money that goes through sports, you would think there would be stricter rules and guidelines that are actually enforced. People aren't just playing and winning for a title. There is a considerable amount of $$$ that comes with a win. And a considerable amount of $$$ that is lost if you aren't the winner - lives and careers are ruined.

D'em wit da' money make da' rulz.
 

bguile

Senior member
Nov 30, 2011
457
18
81
Send the Houston Astro's down to the PCL League for a few years. Bring up the Round Rock Express. It will never happen, and it's probably a bad idea, but at this point I feel like something drastic needs to be done. Seems like cheating has become the norm these days across most major and collegiate sports.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
3,655
1,068
136
Send the Houston Astro's down to the PCL League for a few years. Bring up the Round Rock Express. It will never happen, and it's probably a bad idea, but at this point I feel like something drastic needs to be done. Seems like cheating has become the norm these days across most major and collegiate sports.
If you're not at least considering cheating, you're not trying to win in sports imo.

Given the amount of money that goes through sports, you would think there would be stricter rules and guidelines that are actually enforced. People aren't just playing and winning for a title. There is a considerable amount of $$$ that comes with a win. And a considerable amount of $$$ that is lost if you aren't the winner - lives and careers are ruined.
I guess every baseball team that ever had a player on steroids that won a championship should give back their titles too.

I just don't think this is a big deal. I don't think it helps the players that much. It's not like batting averages were that much higher. In fact to be honest, I think every team should be able to steal signs through the use of modern technology. I don't see it as really affecting the game that much and it creates a new level of strategy and warfare between teams.
 
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Artorias

Senior member
Feb 8, 2014
988
179
106
You are never going to catch every team that uses technology to cheat. Plain and simple. Technology has let the cat out of the bag a long time ago.

They should just give the pitcher and catcher an electronic wrist device to communicate pitch selection. This way the "sacred" bond isn't harmed.

As for cheating in general, well that's just human nature, I don't even know why sports bother with PED testing, everyone is on them, some just have more money for bribes and designer drugs.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,323
5,663
126
If you're not at least considering cheating, you're not trying to win in sports imo.



I guess every baseball team that ever had a player on steroids that won a championship should give back their titles too.

I just don't think this is a big deal. I don't think it helps the players that much. It's not like batting averages were that much higher. In fact to be honest, I think every team should be able to steal signs through the use of modern technology. I don't see it as really affecting the game that much and it creates a new level of strategy and warfare between teams.
The only way that anyone could possibly think this isn't a big deal is if they weren't a fan of baseball to begin with. A game without rules is no game at all.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
46,323
5,663
126
You are never going to catch every team that uses technology to cheat. Plain and simple. Technology has let the cat out of the bag a long time ago.

They should just give the pitcher and catcher an electronic wrist device to communicate pitch selection. This way the "sacred" bond isn't harmed.

As for cheating in general, well that's just human nature, I don't even know why sports bother with PED testing, everyone is on them, some just have more money for bribes and designer drugs.
Yes, because this is what we want baseball to become:
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,061
261
126
Yes, because this is what we want baseball to become:
Your crazy if you don't think professional sports are that way already. They are all on steroids. There was a documentary on netflix or amazon on the main doc that provided the steroids to the baseball players during the big scandal. Interesting story, nothings changed, there are more docs that help these guys cheat and pass drug tests in all the sports including the Olympics.
 
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ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
493
418
96
I guess every baseball team that ever had a player on steroids that won a championship should give back their titles too.

I just don't think this is a big deal. I don't think it helps the players that much. It's not like batting averages were that much higher. In fact to be honest, I think every team should be able to steal signs through the use of modern technology. I don't see it as really affecting the game that much and it creates a new level of strategy and warfare between teams.
Dissolve the league.

What, how about the Olymics? Yup, them fuckers too.

If cheating is involved; out. These are leagues worth in the trillions - and if what they are based on is compromised (natural athletic skills), it should be corrected. They make enough money to properly screen and enforce their rules. This is more of an embarrassment towards the leagues themselves.
 

Hans Gruber

Senior member
Dec 23, 2006
807
191
116
Here is a link from 2018 playoffs article.

BOSTON — He is the greatest closer in Los Angeles Dodgers’ history, revered in Los Angeles for his magnificence, and considered one of their all-time legends.
Now, Eric Gagne might be as welcome as an I-5 freeway pileup in Los Angeles if the Dodgers’ don’t win their first World Series championship since 1988.
Gagne, 42, became the most welcome snitch in Boston since Whitey Bulger, secretly informing his good friend, Red Sox manager Alex Cora, that his closer, Craig Kimbrel, was tipping his pitches.

Cora jumped on the information, passed it along to his pitching coach and video staff, and voila! his struggling closer is now fixed.
“We feel confident that he’s back," Cora said, “and that he’s going to dominate.”
Yep, just in time for the World Series when the Red Sox host the Dodgers in Game 1 beginning Tuesday night at Fenway Park.

Pardon the Dodgers for not getting nostalgic and enlisting Gagne to throw out a ceremonial first pitch when the series shifts to Dodger Stadium, wishing he simply would have kept his thoughts to himself.
“I’ve got a lot of friends around the league," Cora said, “the network is a big one. People are always paying attention. They always text or call and we run it through the coaching staff."


This was just after the Red Sox played the Astros. What is worse, Cora was the bench coach for the Astros in 2017 and the Red Sox fired his ass the other day. He played for the Dodgers as a player in the 90's and early 2000's.

Eric Gagne believed that Craig Kimbrel was tipping his pitches against the Astros. Both the Red Sox and Astros were stealing signs using secret video gear.

 
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