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MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Harper and Kukoc

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PG, you've got to be joking.

Malone right now, when healthy, is better than Kukoc is, was, or ever will be.

Payton right now, is better than Harper at any point after his injury and he joined the Bulls.

Grant right now, when healthy, is still a better defender and rebounder than Kukoc, and is still a better scorer than Rodman. Rodman was a better rebounder, but that's all he did. That, and get technicals.

Really, I could stop without getting to Grant. So let's forget him.

That leaves Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton.

Take any one of them out, and you still have a better threesome than you could ever pick from the Bulls without MJ.

Now if we want to get into comparing the scrubs that the Lakers are actually having to play because of injuries, that's another story.

But to say that the Bulls players other than MJ are better than what the Lakers have, you aren't going to find many that agree. That's not to say they suck, just that they aren't as talented as the Lakers.
 
Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Obviously the Bulls had good players other than MJ, but they did not have the marquee roster that L.A. tends to field every year.
Now this year, L.A.'s superstars are hurt and getting old. Horace Grant is out, Malone might as well be, Payton is 35 and past his prime but still very good, so that leaves them with Shaq, Kobe, Payton and scrubs for depth.
Robert Horry, their 3 point killer in the past, is also gone.
But the bottom line is, Malone and Grant are still very effective players when healthy, so when they have a full team, the Lakers, man for man, are a much more talented team than the old Bulls. (other than MJ)

Grant-Rodman=a wash..Grant is probably more useful, since he can score.
Malone-Kukoc=Malone is still better even now...probably better to swap Malone and Grant in the comparison here, but they'd both still be better.
Shaq-Any Bulls center ever...duh
Payton-Harper=I'll take The Glove.
That leaves...
MJ-Kobe....who would you pick to lead either team?

Now obviously, that is the Laker's team they intended to have, not the one they ended up with after injuries...that can't be helped....any playoff teams' starters are going to be better than another team's backups, so I'm not comparing Luke Walton to Kukoc, etc.
BTW, that is only the team from the Bull's last 3 titles. The first 3 had a much different team, other than MJ and Pippen.

So, I say, take MJ from any point in his championship run, replace Kobe with him and the Lakers would be unstoppable, even with the players they have right now.
My Lord, Jordan and Shaq on the same team? You wouldn't need much of a supporting cast.

The big difference is, Jordan's understanding of the game is above genius level, and Kobe's is somewhere between elementary and middle school.

Until Kobe gets rid of that 10 cent head that's sitting on that million dollar physique, he'll never be anywhere near Jordan's level, no how much he tries to act like Mike.

:roll:

MJ had Grant too for his first 3 Championships and guess what Grant of 10 yrs ago is MUCH better than Grant of today. and if you think a healthy grant of now is ANYWHERE NEAR as good as Rodman, you are on drugs.

Malone today is NOWHERE near as good as Kukoc for those championship teams.

Payton - Harper, A wash. At their respective Peaks, Payton was better, Payton now vs Harper then. no way.

the big difference is MJ had a TEAM, Kobe and Shaq and the rest of the team are disparate parts.

YOu're kidding me. MJ had great supporting players. The lakers have good supporting players but the fact is the team is too reliant on individuals. You have got to be kidding me when you say harper was better than payton now? Payton is good he's just in a bad situation. Malone is still better than kukroch was.

Yes, Payton is in a bad situation. Every fricking series he has to face a quicker guard who can shoot better than he can. As much as he has struggled, he got off easy. Parker became an inanimate object after game 2. Cassel hurt his back and wasn't himself by the time he faced LA. And now Billups, a career 40% shooter, is lighting his ass up for 23 pts/game. Payton's problem is not that he sucks, but just that he's 35. And hopefully this series will forever put the Kobe vs MJ comparison to rest. Anyone who watched MJ early in his career should know that Bryant, as talented as he is, doesn't have #23's gift.
 
Proof: The Bull's first three championship teams:

Jordan
Pippen
Cartwright
BJ Armstrong
Stacey King
Paxson
Perdue
Hodges
Levingston
Scott Williams

That's the core group....which proves how great Jordan really was. No superstars there.

The last three title teams had bigger names, like Harper and Rodman, but they were older and not as effective as in years past. Rodman was a huge distraction, and Harper was used sparingly as a backup role player.
And add Luc Longley in as center.
 
Originally posted by: poopaskoopa
Anyone who watched MJ early in his career should know that Bryant, as talented as he is, doesn't have #23's gift.

just don't tell that to the diehard Laker fans...😉
 
Originally posted by: poopaskoopa
Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Obviously the Bulls had good players other than MJ, but they did not have the marquee roster that L.A. tends to field every year.
Now this year, L.A.'s superstars are hurt and getting old. Horace Grant is out, Malone might as well be, Payton is 35 and past his prime but still very good, so that leaves them with Shaq, Kobe, Payton and scrubs for depth.
Robert Horry, their 3 point killer in the past, is also gone.
But the bottom line is, Malone and Grant are still very effective players when healthy, so when they have a full team, the Lakers, man for man, are a much more talented team than the old Bulls. (other than MJ)

Grant-Rodman=a wash..Grant is probably more useful, since he can score.
Malone-Kukoc=Malone is still better even now...probably better to swap Malone and Grant in the comparison here, but they'd both still be better.
Shaq-Any Bulls center ever...duh
Payton-Harper=I'll take The Glove.
That leaves...
MJ-Kobe....who would you pick to lead either team?

Now obviously, that is the Laker's team they intended to have, not the one they ended up with after injuries...that can't be helped....any playoff teams' starters are going to be better than another team's backups, so I'm not comparing Luke Walton to Kukoc, etc.
BTW, that is only the team from the Bull's last 3 titles. The first 3 had a much different team, other than MJ and Pippen.

So, I say, take MJ from any point in his championship run, replace Kobe with him and the Lakers would be unstoppable, even with the players they have right now.
My Lord, Jordan and Shaq on the same team? You wouldn't need much of a supporting cast.

The big difference is, Jordan's understanding of the game is above genius level, and Kobe's is somewhere between elementary and middle school.

Until Kobe gets rid of that 10 cent head that's sitting on that million dollar physique, he'll never be anywhere near Jordan's level, no how much he tries to act like Mike.

:roll:

MJ had Grant too for his first 3 Championships and guess what Grant of 10 yrs ago is MUCH better than Grant of today. and if you think a healthy grant of now is ANYWHERE NEAR as good as Rodman, you are on drugs.

Malone today is NOWHERE near as good as Kukoc for those championship teams.

Payton - Harper, A wash. At their respective Peaks, Payton was better, Payton now vs Harper then. no way.

the big difference is MJ had a TEAM, Kobe and Shaq and the rest of the team are disparate parts.

YOu're kidding me. MJ had great supporting players. The lakers have good supporting players but the fact is the team is too reliant on individuals. You have got to be kidding me when you say harper was better than payton now? Payton is good he's just in a bad situation. Malone is still better than kukroch was.

Yes, Payton is in a bad situation. Every fricking series he has to face a quicker guard who can shoot better than he can. As much as he has struggled, he got off easy. Parker became an inanimate object after game 2. Cassel hurt his back and wasn't himself by the time he faced LA. And now Billups, a career 40% shooter, is lighting his ass up for 23 pts/game. Payton's problem is not that he sucks, but just that he's 35. And hopefully this series will forever put the Kobe vs MJ comparison to rest. Anyone who watched MJ early in his career should know that Bryant, as talented as he is, doesn't have #23's gift.


It's not Payton who's that horrible it's more tha Laker's help defense and their attitude on defense in general. I said it before I'll say it again, cats get new contracts playing the Lakers guards. Even before you guys had Payton Bibby lit the Lakers up, gets a new contract everyone wonders what happened. He played just like he did the year before only he wasn't playing the Lakers. TP last year abused the Lakers.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no MJ Kobe comparison. You don't compare great players. People weren't saying Jordan is the next blah blah were they? Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan and a great player. Kobe Bryant is Kobe Bryaint, not Michael Jordan. He's a different player and he's great even though I hate him. Kobe is Kobe, not the MJ of today...

You don't see people saying who's better Shaq or Wilt? They're different players and they are the standard. Just like Kobe and MJ are standards you compare other players to.
 
Originally posted by: shady06
ANYONE that doesn't think that MJ had a GREAT supporting cast is a moron

i agree, but i would rather have MJ + shaq than Mj + all the others you mentioned 😉

i don't know, if this lakers team proves anything, it proves that it's not the players but the team that wins.

how a team plays together is just as important as the members of the team.
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: shady06
ANYONE that doesn't think that MJ had a GREAT supporting cast is a moron

i agree, but i would rather have MJ + shaq than Mj + all the others you mentioned 😉

i don't know, if this lakers team proves anything, it proves that it's not the players but the team that wins.

how a team plays together is just as important as the members of the team.

Didn't used to be like that. It has been like that in the finals this year and it's about damn time.

I'm sick of this Laker's 2 man ball. It's nice to see a TEAM win.
 
Originally posted by: CrazyDe1
. People weren't saying Jordan is the next blah blah were they? Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan and a great player. .
Yes, they started off saying he was the next Dr. J. because of his dunking. Then after it was obvious he was much better than the Dr., MJ gradually created his own legend, which is so big that ever since players that show the potential get labeled "the next Jordan".
MJ isn't even the best player ever in the ACC, but obviously came into his own in the NBA.
The greatest ACC player ever was David Thompson, with Ralph Sampson second. MJ isn't in the top 5, looking only at his college career.
 
Sampson & Thompson spent 4 years in college, Jordan left after 2. I'm pretty sure if Jordan stayed 2 more years Dean Smith would've probably had another championship & Jordan would've been one of the all time ACC greats.
 
Originally posted by: Shlong
Sampson & Thompson spent 4 years in college, Jordan left after 2. I'm pretty sure if Jordan stayed 2 more years Dean Smith would've probably had another championship & Jordan would've been one of the all time ACC greats.
Wrong, Jordan played 3 years in college, just like David Thompson did. When Thompson played, freshmen were not eligible, so all players only played 3 years.
BTW, Jordan was there 2 more years and old El Choko Dean never sniffed another title.

Bottom line is MJ was a great player, but not as good as DT in college. Even MJ would say that.
 
These are different times then when Jordan was playing. The game is much more phyiscal and athletic now. Skill-wise the Lakers can match up with the Pistons, however, athletically they were completely outplayed. That was the difference here, Detroit had so many offensive rebounds and second-chance points in the game.
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Could you dream of a better Defensive team?? all of those guys are SOOO long, much longer than their height. pippen is what 6'8" but plays like he's 6'10" with those arms of his.

Harper is VERY VERY long for a PG, MJ is MJ and Rodman is Rodman.

PLUS they had Toni Kukoc as the 6th man.

ANYONE that doesn't think that MJ had a GREAT supporting cast is a moron

Who said they didnt. There a player out there that can win a championship if he doesnt have a few other great players in his supporting cast.
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Could you dream of a better Defensive team?? all of those guys are SOOO long, much longer than their height. pippen is what 6'8" but plays like he's 6'10" with those arms of his.

Harper is VERY VERY long for a PG, MJ is MJ and Rodman is Rodman.

PLUS they had Toni Kukoc as the 6th man.

ANYONE that doesn't think that MJ had a GREAT supporting cast is a moron

Who said MJ didnt have a great supporting cast. There isnt a player out there that can win a championship by himself without a great supporting cast.
 
Originally posted by: Shlong
El Choko Dean Smith had another title, remember Chris Webber's infamous timeout?
Yep, old Chokin' Dean got 2 titles in spite of himself.

Recruited more talent than any coach in the history of the game, and only 2 titles.
 
ANYONE that doesn't think that MJ had a GREAT supporting cast is a moron


Okay... I must be a moron then. :roll:

Michael Jordon was such a superior player that he made every one of his teammates look GREAT (or at least much better than they later proved to be). None of them accomplished much before or after they played with Michael Jordon.
 
Originally posted by: PowerEngineer
ANYONE that doesn't think that MJ had a GREAT supporting cast is a moron


Okay... I must be a moron then. :roll:

Michael Jordon was such a superior player that he made every one of his teammates look GREAT (or at least much better than they later proved to be). None of them accomplished much before or after they played with Michael Jordon.

:roll:

Rodman was a very important part of the Pistons Bad Boys that won 2 championships.

Kerr while not as big, did play a part in the Spurs Championship run.

Grant played a small part in LA's win.

3 > none.
 
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