MJ in Colorado seems to be leading to safer roads

[MongGrel]

Great. So who are the big anti-MJ crowd of 2014, now that we've established who the anti-MJ crowd of 40 years ago as depicted by Hollywood 16 years ago is.

The same ones.

Might as well ask how opposed Israel being a Nation 40 years ago I guess, would be the same question more or less in different terms.

It's relative and the same, all over.

Your young, it appears.

 

[Carson Dyle]

because it was an already existing situation entirely. all that happened was that the black market trade of mary jane, was legalized..

Ah .... OK. And?

Traffic safety. We were talking about traffic safety. Put the pipe down for a minute.

 

[master_shake_]

pretty sure all those people in colo who used mj are dead.

didn't you know that mj kills faster than guns?

 

[Zaap]

The same ones.

Might as well ask how opposed Israel being a Nation 40 years ago I guess, would be the same question more or less in different terms.

It's relative and the same, all over.

Your young, it appears.

Couldn't you just admit you didn't have an actual answer?

 

[Zaap]

http://learnaboutsam.org/

It's mostly astroturf, paid mouthpieces claiming to represent concerned citizens.

That's pretty much what I figured, but it seems like some want to act like there's really some huge, shadowy anti-MJ force that's out to get them. (Some of the first posts in this thread crowing about the anti-MJ crowd)

Seems to me the biggest opposition is just the ususal: spineless politicians dragging their feet and those already cornering the quasi-legalized medical MJ market. I'd wager cartel bosses aren't so jazzed either. Few others care anymore or are all for legalization.

 

[Carson Dyle]

That's pretty much what I figured, but it seems like some want to act like there's really some huge, shadowy anti-MJ force that's out to get them. (Some of the first posts in this thread crowing about the anti-MJ crowd)

Seems to me the biggest opposition is just the ususal: spineless politicians dragging their feet and those already cornering the quasi-legalized medical MJ market. I'd wager cartel bosses aren't so jazzed either. Few others care anymore or are all for legalization.

They're neither spineless, nor dragging their feet. The Colorado laws give municipalities the ability to completely control how and where legal marijuana is sold locally. And many, many towns and counties have totally outlawed any retail shops, any legal grow operations, and any edible production facilities from operating locally. Colorado Springs, Durango, Greeley, Douglas County ... the list is long.

By area, Colorado is still primarily very conservative. It's the influx of transplants over the past 20 or 30 years into the larger cities and counties around Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, that tipped the statewide vote to legalize marijuana. Outside of those higher population areas you'll find vast opposition, both from politicians and from citizens.

 

[Zaap]

They're neither spineless, nor dragging their feet. The Colorado laws

Not sure what led you to believe I was talking about Colorado.

 

[PliotronX]

Definitely not in the western slope, I cannot believe half these people are licensed.

 

[davmat787]

Anti-MJ crowd? Who exactly are they?

Here in WA state, Costco was one of the biggest backers financially of the anti legalization groups.

A year or two earlier, we switched back to privatized liquor sales, before you could only purchase alcohol at .gov stores. Guess who was also one of the top, or probably the largest, financial supporter of that initiative?

You got it, Costco again, the number one purveyor of wine in the U.S., if not all alcohol types.

 

[Joepublic2]

pretty sure all those people in colo who used mj are dead.

didn't you know that mj kills faster than guns?

I smoked a weed and died. Ghost postin' 24/7.

 

[OverVolt]

Yea, tons of young guys moved to Colorado. I'd hold back on praising accident rates just yet.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not sure what led you to believe I was talking about Colorado.

Colorado is just part of it, obviously. I think that the majority of Americans support legalization, but a majority may not find a way to express that desire. Of those, the support of many is passive rather than active, so the folks I referenced still hold sway in most places. They are very much a force to be reckoned with.

It doesn't require majority consent to just keep things the way they are. Hardly. The majority needs a way to voice their dissent to overturn existing law because the politicians obviously won't do it for them. Enter the citizen initiative behind Colorado's very effective Amendment 64.

Alaska's current initiative is modeled along those lines, Oregon's definitely not.

 

[hal2kilo]

Purely anecdotal evidence, but it seems every time some jackass here in Colorado is going 20 miles below the speed limit, I pass them and they have their face buried in a pot pipe.....

I'd say, exchange pot pipe with cell phone x20.

 

[hal2kilo]

I'm pro-legalization, but those charts are stupid. That's statistical noise, not evidence.

I agree at this point. I'm hoping that with exposure to the populace, they are finally personally going to understand, that there is almost nothing in common between being intoxicated on pot vice alcohol.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That's pretty much what I figured, but it seems like some want to act like there's really some huge, shadowy anti-MJ force that's out to get them. (Some of the first posts in this thread crowing about the anti-MJ crowd)

Why Pot Smokers Are Paranoid
http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/06/why-pot-smokers-are-paranoid/

 

[OutHouse]

so far the only negative about our legal pot is it has made the demand for blackmarket pot soar. why? because of two reasons. Rec pot is just over 400 bucks an ounce, thats quite a bit of money so people with red cards (medical pot cards) can buy the same ounce for about half that and they turn around and sell it on the street, or sell the pot they are allowed to grow at home, due to being allowed to grow more plants.

for example you can get a pound of pot for around 2300 bucks and take it out of state by using a broker and easily double their money money.

the state really needs to back down the taxes for rec pot and make it more reasonable to help solve this problem but that will wont happen because the state is making a fucking killing in the tax revenue rec pot is bringing in.

 

[Carson Dyle]

so far the only negative about our legal pot is it has made the demand for blackmarket pot soar. why? because of two reasons. Rec pot is just over 400 bucks an ounce, thats quite a bit of money so people with red cards (medical pot cards) can buy the same ounce for about half that and they turn around and sell it on the street, or sell the pot they are allowed to grow at home, due to being allowed to grow more plants.

for example you can get a pound of pot for around 2300 bucks and take it out of state by using a broker and easily double their money money.

the state really needs to back down the taxes for rec pot and make it more reasonable to help solve this problem but that will wont happen because the state is making a fucking killing in the tax revenue rec pot is bringing in.

I agree with some of your reasoning. Yes, the tax burden on retail pot is insane and just pushes people to buy on the street. That comes in conjunction with hugely relaxed policing for growing, possession and even sales. I've seen pot deals made in broad daylight in populated streets and restaurants.

But from I've seen there's also been a very large increase in consumption. Everybody now carries weed on them. Go to a bar at night and it smells like there's been a skunk invasion. Go out back in the alley and someone will be smoking. And a few more brazen souls will be smoking right on the front patio. Yet the laws say you can't smoke in public. I've read that the city of Boulder is cleaning up by ticketing those caught smoking in public, something like $300 per infraction. Here in Fort Collins, I have yet to hear of anyone being ticketed.

Another big reason for the increased street sales are that the new laws have made busting illegal grows infinitely harder for police. Everyone is permitted to grow up to six plants for personal use, with up to three of them in flower. Larger illegal grows now operate with much less fear of being busted. When anyone can grow, it becomes far harder to find the people growing 30 plants instead of six.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why Pot Smokers Are Paranoid
http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/06/why-pot-smokers-are-paranoid/

So, uhh, that means that birther benghazi believers are really stoners?

I did not know that.

 

[Jhhnn]

so far the only negative about our legal pot is it has made the demand for blackmarket pot soar. why? because of two reasons. Rec pot is just over 400 bucks an ounce, thats quite a bit of money so people with red cards (medical pot cards) can buy the same ounce for about half that and they turn around and sell it on the street, or sell the pot they are allowed to grow at home, due to being allowed to grow more plants.

for example you can get a pound of pot for around 2300 bucks and take it out of state by using a broker and easily double their money money.

the state really needs to back down the taxes for rec pot and make it more reasonable to help solve this problem but that will wont happen because the state is making a fucking killing in the tax revenue rec pot is bringing in.

Talking out your ass again, huh?

First off, you can't legally buy a pound of retail pot in CO except 1oz at a time. Unless you have the licensing to be a provider. Ounces are $200-250, plus 21% tax. Expect the price to go lower.

Nobody can grow more plants, either. Med card holders plant counts are actually being reduced, much to the dismay of some, and personal growers only get 6, with only 3 flowering. More growers is a likely scenario, but there's no way to tell, it being completely anonymous in nature.

MMJ growing & vending has never really been competitive- there was no such thing as enough product. Retail promises to be very competitive when big growers, particularly greenhouse growers get dialed in. They enjoy enormous economies of scale, while operators & investors will accept much lower returns when personal freedom isn't an issue. Expect prices to tumble after Oct 1, when vertical integration is not required. Pot shops will be run like mom & pop liquor stores. Expect bottom line consumer pricing of retail pot to be lower than MMJ.

What you describe in the MMJ market hasn't changed a bit. Card holding resellers have been a fact of life from the beginning.

Black market? We're taking the money out of it, the only way to get rid of it.

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree with some of your reasoning. Yes, the tax burden on retail pot is insane and just pushes people to buy on the street. That comes in conjunction with hugely relaxed policing for growing, possession and even sales. I've seen pot deals made in broad daylight in populated streets and restaurants.

But from I've seen there's also been a very large increase in consumption. Everybody now carries weed on them. Go to a bar at night and it smells like there's been a skunk invasion. Go out back in the alley and someone will be smoking. And a few more brazen souls will be smoking right on the front patio. Yet the laws say you can't smoke in public. I've read that the city of Boulder is cleaning up by ticketing those caught smoking in public, something like $300 per infraction. Here in Fort Collins, I have yet to hear of anyone being ticketed.

Another big reason for the increased street sales are that the new laws have made busting illegal grows infinitely harder for police. Everyone is permitted to grow up to six plants for personal use, with up to three of them in flower. Larger illegal grows now operate with much less fear of being busted. When anyone can grow, it becomes far harder to find the people growing 30 plants instead of six.

And the evidence in support of the claim that there's more black market activity is... what, exactly? Anecdote? Ouija board?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Umm there is no causation demonstrated. Because anti MJ people made stuff up doesn't mean anyone else can legitimately change how science or statistics work. You could make a case for MJ not causing problems but no more than that.

 

[Carson Dyle]

Black market? We're taking the money out of it, the only way to get rid of it.

I was with you up until this. The black market isn't going anywhere. That's a fantasy.

 

[OutHouse]

Talking out your ass again, huh?

First off, you can't legally buy a pound of retail pot in CO except 1oz at a time. Unless you have the licensing to be a provider. Ounces are $200-250, plus 21% tax. Expect the price to go lower.

Nobody can grow more plants, either. Med card holders plant counts are actually being reduced, much to the dismay of some, and personal growers only get 6, with only 3 flowering. More growers is a likely scenario, but there's no way to tell, it being completely anonymous in nature.

MMJ growing & vending has never really been competitive- there was no such thing as enough product. Retail promises to be very competitive when big growers, particularly greenhouse growers get dialed in. They enjoy enormous economies of scale, while operators & investors will accept much lower returns when personal freedom isn't an issue. Expect prices to tumble after Oct 1, when vertical integration is not required. Pot shops will be run like mom & pop liquor stores. Expect bottom line consumer pricing of retail pot to be lower than MMJ.

What you describe in the MMJ market hasn't changed a bit. Card holding resellers have been a fact of life from the beginning.

Black market? We're taking the money out of it, the only way to get rid of it.

Dude learn to read and please continue to wave that dumbass flag with pride.

I never said legal did I?

you do know that there are 2 different prices for pot right? 400 a ounce is what the shops in boulder charge for RECREATIONAL pot, Medial is half that. Also medical you can buy 2 ounces at a time.

 

[Carson Dyle]

And the evidence in support of the claim that there's more black market activity is... what, exactly? Anecdote? Ouija board?

Observation and experience. You can call it anecdotal if that meets your agenda. I know a lot of illegal growers in Larimer county and a few in Denver who've been here and growing 10 to 15 or more years, and they're all thriving. Business has never been better and the heat has never been lower.

I've heard conflicting stories on price trends, though. A couple have said that the high retail prices due to the crazy taxes have boosted street prices. A couple of others have told me that there's so much weed on the streets that price are depressed. One friend with a good connection in Kansas City has taken to moving everything he can grow through KC and Omaha.

 

[OutHouse]

Black market? We're taking the money out of it, the only way to get rid of it.

And the evidence in support of the claim that there's less black market activity is... what, exactly? Anecdote? Ouija board?