Miyamoto Says Game Design is in a rut

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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Actually been saying the same thing myself for over a year now. Here's the link to the english translations at Gamespot and the Copy/Paste for the lazy.

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The Japanese site Nintendo Dream is currently running a huge interview with Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto. In the first part of the interview, Miyamoto discussed his recent work and feelings on the overall direction of the games industry.

Interestingly, some of Miyamoto's recent handiwork can be found not in a new game, but a museum. The gaming luminary was involved in developing interactive exhibits for Shigureden, a high-tech museum in Kyoto Japan devoted to Japanese culture. The museum allows visitors to play a Nintendo DS version of Hyakunin Isshu, a traditional card game based on famous poems. Regarding such nonstandard uses of gaming gear, Miyamoto was enthusiastic: "I'm interested in entertainment in general--I like aquariums and art museums that have interactive exhibits. When the topic of Shigureden came up, I immediately wanted to work on it... I'd always wanted to try using the DS in public spaces, such as museum exhibits... Since Nintendo has no plans to get involved in such attractions, I suggested to [former president Hiroshi] Yamauchi that we try it at Shigureden." Miyamoto also hinted that he will work more on this project, promising "this isn't the end."

The DS popping up in places like museums is perhaps not all that surprising, considering the system's popularity in Japan. Miyamoto attributes this success directly to Nintendo's corporate principles. "We have always done what we think is right," he said. "We're often told that the world doesn't work based on 'what's right' alone, and this is certainly true. Nonetheless, Nintendo has always seriously and steadily done the right thing; we felt this would pay off eventually, and I feel that [the DS's success] has redeemed us."

Miyamoto also emphasized the importance of staying in tune with the outside world, saying, "If you're on top, you get spoiled and surrounded by cheerleaders. A few years ago, people were saying that Nintendo had slipped off top place. But actually the game market itself had lost touch with the real world; this offered opportunities to the one who noticed first."

Regarding the question of what direction the game industry needs to take, Miyamoto said Nintendo's response is summed up by the company's catchphrase, which translates as "providing enjoyment, from five to 95." Miyamoto elaborated. "Of course we're not rejecting current games, but an increasing number of people don't want to play games because they're hard, and a lot of people think games are irrelevant to them."

Miyamoto also expressed some irritation with the industry for not questioning why users have grown indifferent to gaming hardware. "Instead, people in the industry ask, 'Will simulations catch on after the RPG boom?' 'What genre is the game play?' 'Who made it?' We've lost site [sic] of essential enjoyment, which is the basis of gaming. In developing the Wii, we asked ourselves once more, 'What kind of game console do people want in their homes?'"

The result of Nintendo's soul searching was the streamlined design and now famous Wii controller. "It's nonthreatening," Miyamoto said of the system. "Our larger theme was to make something that wouldn't intimidate women and nongamers when we showed it to them."

Attracting nontraditional demographics is not Nintendo's only reason for the radical simplification of the console and in particular its controller. "We think that game designers, including us, have hit a dead end. It's assumed you will develop for a given environment, and [the developers] don't know what they should make. To break out of this stagnation, we first have to radically change the paradigm. We have to try destroying [the paradigm] ourselves, and see what is born out of its destruction. If this cycle isn't repeated, nothing new will be created... We decided to base a product around [this idea] and offer it as a challenge to the game designers of the world. So, although I don't reject today's games, if we don't do this sort of thing, no new forms of gameplay will appear."
 

aswedc

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Oct 25, 2000
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I'm sure Sony and Microsoft are happy to sit back and let Nintendo go first with hardware side game innovation.
 

skace

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Jan 23, 2001
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I don't agree that game design is in a rut. Developers are nowhere near hitting a dead end. But the overwhelming push to create tried and true solutions is what creates the massive illusion of a dead end.
 

40Hands

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2004
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Originally posted by: aswedc
I'm sure Sony and Microsoft are happy to sit back and let Nintendo go first with hardware side game innovation.

Because gaming is going to stay fresh if no one steps up to make a difference :roll:

Props to Nintendo for taking a chance!
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
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Originally posted by: aswedc
I'm sure Sony and Microsoft are happy to sit back and let Nintendo go first with hardware side game innovation.

Yeah, we should all thank Sony and Microsoft for trotting out the same old stuff, but with "better graphics" and capabilities that alread exist in computers that can be found in almost every home.
 

Markbnj

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Sep 16, 2005
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Originally posted by: skace
I don't agree that game design is in a rut. Developers are nowhere near hitting a dead end. But the overwhelming push to create tried and true solutions is what creates the massive illusion of a dead end.

It's the same thing. It doesn't matter if individually there are people out there with great, innovative ideas, if the industry has evolved to the point where they can't be brought to market. In terms of what makes it into the production pipeline, "rut" is the right word from my pov.
 

Coquito

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2003
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If you want a sure hit, you need to bring back Seaman for the DS. :thumbsup::p
 

Trevelyan

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Dec 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: Bateluer
:We have to try destroying [the paradigm] ourselves, and see what is born out of its destruction. If this cycle isn't repeated, nothing new will be created... "

LOL this sounds like something out of Akira.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: skace
I don't agree that game design is in a rut. Developers are nowhere near hitting a dead end. But the overwhelming push to create tried and true solutions is what creates the massive illusion of a dead end.

Umm.
If game design is in a rut, it means people are not straying from tried and tested designs, which is what you say.
So you say we're not in a rut, then say we are in a rut?

But game design is stuck. Sequels and more sequels, or games based on the same ideas, with nothing particularly new or innovative.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: Lonyo
Umm.
If game design is in a rut, it means people are not straying from tried and tested designs, which is what you say.
So you say we're not in a rut, then say we are in a rut?

But game design is stuck. Sequels and more sequels, or games based on the same ideas, with nothing particularly new or innovative.

Sorry, I was more disagreeing with the statement that we've "hit a dead end". Which was in the quote from Miyamoto but I replied to the rut topic. In other words, I don't think a new controller is the solution to any problems. That doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to it. But to dress it up as game developers saviour is silly.
 

cker

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Dec 19, 2005
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There's indie games. They tend to be more buggy, with less polish than the big studio games. On the other hand, the big studios want to make a safe profit, rather than risking crazy dollars into a game that may not sell. If a couple of little companies/groups have success with a genre, then the big studios will emulate it. Or, allocate a budget to 'bet' on unusual games.

Most new game ideas aren't sea changes, though. I mean, I remember the first time I saw Wolfenstein 3-D. Not only was it a major 'wow' moment, but I knew that 99% likely that new 'first-person' thing had some potential to be big. The previous games I had played on my PC were all side-scrolling shoot-em (or jump-em) games, vertically-scrolling shoot-em games, hunt-and-click 'adventure' games... and the number-based strategy stuff the PC was known for. Next thing you know, Doom, then Quake and a pile of FPS games since. Now, FPS is the 'default' game mode that side-scrolling shooting/jumping used to be.

Somebody comes out with a new mechanic and it either has the potential to be adapted to lots of variations, or not. Katamari Damacy is cool, but I don't see that gameplay mechanic working out to hundreds of titles. Realtime strategy, though -- like FPS, it's not so much a game, as a CLASS of game that was invented. Similarly, Uno is a card game, but Poker is a CLASS of card game. It's hard work to invent a class of game.

I do like the way some older game mechanics are being exploited now, though. Remember Marble Madness? Somebody mated it with a first-person game and got Super Monkey Ball. Monkey Pool / Monkey Bowling and the other minigames are nice, but they wouldn't sell a retail title. I think they could be viable on Live Marketplace or for casual PC gaming. Crimsonland was a title that's basically any of top-view shoot-everything-that-moves games, but polished up and updated. Other titles that come to mind are Disgaea, whatever current Civilization or Sim* version's out there, and so on.

A controller can help or not; I think it depends on what interesting gameplay mechanics it enables.
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: Lonyo
Umm.
If game design is in a rut, it means people are not straying from tried and tested designs, which is what you say.
So you say we're not in a rut, then say we are in a rut?

But game design is stuck. Sequels and more sequels, or games based on the same ideas, with nothing particularly new or innovative.

Sorry, I was more disagreeing with the statement that we've "hit a dead end". Which was in the quote from Miyamoto but I replied to the rut topic. In other words, I don't think a new controller is the solution to any problems. That doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to it. But to dress it up as game developers saviour is silly.

I think it's really their plan to go back to "simple" games that Miyamoto is really talking about. When he talks about "hard" games he is referring to games like your average FPS that uses every single button on a controller with 16 buttons and two analog sticks. It's Nintendo's hope that a lot of people find games like that daunting, but would be willing to play simpler games (i.e. games with fewer controls).

The motion sensitive controller is just part of that plan, but that's also where I tend to think Nintendo maybe a bit too idealistic. I can easily see a motion sensitive controller being just a complicated as any normal controller. In fact, I can easily see it being more confusing since it might be easy to accidently do a motion that translates into a command that you didn't intend to do. I think Nintendo will keep most of their games simple, but I don't think that will hold true for other developers.