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Mitch McConnel in news conference now

Oldgamer

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Effectively he is saying there will be no more Government shutdowns, and they aren't getting rid of ACA but will be making some major changes to it. I am still watching it now. He said "obviously if I could get rid of it I would but we can't so we will make major changes to it like the mandate".
 
I think most people already knew that republicans aren't going to mess with the ACA though. They are already setting their sites on the 2016 elections and McConnell was just talking about tax extensions for taxpayers and some things like cap and trade, etc. He said he is getting elected majority leader next week and the president has to work with them now. It will be interesting to see if things work or don't work and who does the continuation of fighting and obstructing.

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I´m still a bit confused on what they want to change. Obamacare is actually saving us money. What part do they want to change? If they want to go forward with it and head towards single payer I´m all for it but I really hope they don´t think going back to what we had is better. That´s retarded.
 
doubledeluxe said:
I´m still a bit confused on what they want to change. Obamacare is actually saving us money. What part do they want to change? If they want to go forward with it and head towards single payer I´m all for it but I really hope they don´t think going back to what we had is better. That´s retarded.
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He said they were going to try and get rid of the mandate. In other words Americans would no longer be required by law to buy it.
 
doubledeluxe said:
I´m still a bit confused on what they want to change. Obamacare is actually saving us money. What part do they want to change? If they want to go forward with it and head towards single payer I´m all for it but I really hope they don´t think going back to what we had is better. That´s retarded.
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How is it saving us money? Have medical cost gone down?
Or had the cost been shifted around and hidden?
 
Oldgamer said:
He said they were going to try and get rid of the mandate. In other words Americans would no longer be required by law to buy it.
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This will hurt the insurance carriers. They needed the mandate to try to balance the books.

Just like the Democrats desire to take from the haves and give to the have nots w/ respect to income, in order for the insurance companies to support the have nots, they have to take the money from the haves.
Either higher premiums, less coverage or both.

The less coming in from the haves (quantity) the higher the shaft will be for those that are supporting the have nots.

Or the government will have to pick up the tab when the insurance carriers revolt.
 
cabri said:
This will hurt the insurance carriers. They needed the mandate to try to balance the books.

Just like the Democrats desire to take from the haves and give to the have nots w/ respect to income, in order for the insurance companies to support the have nots, they have to take the money from the haves.
Either higher premiums, less coverage or both.

The less coming in from the haves (quantity) the higher the shaft will be for those that are supporting the have nots.

Or the government will have to pick up the tab when the insurance carriers revolt.
Click to expand...

I think history has pretty clearly shown that the simple economics behind anything eludes Republicans greatly. If Republicans even remotely had any fucking clue behind how economics in any way, form, or fashion works then this trickle-down bullshit they've been pushing for 30 years would never have been heard of.
 
I think the most hopeful thing for me on this agenda is tax reform. I think the ACA will be gutted by the administration and eventually the courts. No need to waste time and political capital going after it.
 
Removing the mandate removes the ACA. So that's not going to happen.

They need to go to single payer. It works in the rest of the developed world.

International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png
 
cabri said:
This will hurt the insurance carriers. They needed the mandate to try to balance the books.

Just like the Democrats desire to take from the haves and give to the have nots w/ respect to income, in order for the insurance companies to support the have nots, they have to take the money from the haves.
Either higher premiums, less coverage or both.

The less coming in from the haves (quantity) the higher the shaft will be for those that are supporting the have nots.

Or the government will have to pick up the tab when the insurance carriers revolt.
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Yup. Can't have must-issue health insurance without significant penalty for those who choose not to buy until they need it. At the least, they'd have to build in some sort of delay in coverage.
 
werepossum said:
Yup. Can't have must-issue health insurance without significant penalty for those who choose not to buy until they need it. At the least, they'd have to build in some sort of delay in coverage.
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You don't get it. Eliminate the mandate, that will drive up premiums even more than the catastrophic rise under obamacare.

Then we get to say "See! Obama and democrats did this to you!"

Think end game to eliminate all democrats and any that think like them from any position of power or governance.
 
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spidey07 said:
You don't get it. Eliminate the mandate, that will drive up premiums even more than the catastrophic rise under obamacare.

Then we get to say "See! Obama and democrats did this to you!"

Think end game to eliminate all democrats and any that think like them from any position of power or governance.
Click to expand...

People will vote in 2016 with their wallets much like this time. The economy did not improve and the way people perceived to be responsible were told accordingly.

One reason why Obama kept pushing out the ACA requirements, to avoid political backlash against those that the people think are in charge.

If the mandate goes away, which will allow costs to rise higher/faster, it will not go into effect until after 2016.

I suspect that the penalties may get removed before 2016; which lowers the incentive to have insurance coverage but the official requirement would not be removed at this time.
 
thraashman said:
I think history has pretty clearly shown that the simple economics behind anything eludes Republicans greatly. If Republicans even remotely had any fucking clue behind how economics in any way, form, or fashion works then this trickle-down bullshit they've been pushing for 30 years would never have been heard of.
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Says the child whose party conjured up trillions over the past several years and gave it to banks, hoping it would trickle down. How's that working out?

LOL, Democrats.
 
spidey07 said:
You don't get it. Eliminate the mandate, that will drive up premiums even more than the catastrophic rise under obamacare.

Then we get to say "See! Obama and democrats did this to you!"

Think end game to eliminate all democrats and any that think like them from any position of power or governance.
Click to expand...
Eliminating all Democrats would be as catastrophic as eliminating all Republicans. Neither party should have full power, or even a mandate.

I definitely see the GOP as the lesser evil, but no one sane wants to see a lesser evil grow more powerful.

As far as Obamacare, it's not my preference and it costs me near a grand a year for worse insurance, but it's vitally important to some people. If the Pubbies are going to strike it down, they need to craft something better AND demonstrate that it works at a state level before imposing it nationally. It would be immensely stupid to suffer two major societal upheavals and end up where we started.

cabri said:
People will vote in 2016 with their wallets much like this time. The economy did not improve and the way people perceived to be responsible were told accordingly.

One reason why Obama kept pushing out the ACA requirements, to avoid political backlash against those that the people think are in charge.

If the mandate goes away, which will allow costs to rise higher/faster, it will not go into effect until after 2016.

I suspect that the penalties may get removed before 2016; which lowers the incentive to have insurance coverage but the official requirement would not be removed at this time.
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Agreed. But at best, that's a short term solution as removing the penalties simply shifts more of the costs to the taxpayer and makes single payer more attractive.

BoberFett said:
Says the child whose party conjured up trillions over the past several years and gave it to banks, hoping it would trickle down. How's that working out?

LOL, Democrats.
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For Democrats like bshole it's working out great. Sure, we're manufacturing more poor people, but the Democrats need as many poor people as possible to keep them in power. From the Dems' point of view, this is almost a perfect system.
 
spidey07 said:
You don't get it. Eliminate the mandate, that will drive up premiums even more than the catastrophic rise under obamacare.

Then we get to say "See! Obama and democrats did this to you!"

Think end game to eliminate all democrats and any that think like them from any position of power or governance.
Click to expand...

You forgot "Good shoot"
 
doubledeluxe said:
Removing the mandate removes the ACA. So that's not going to happen.

They need to go to single payer. It works in the rest of the developed world.

International_Comparison_-_Healthcare_spending_as_%25_GDP.png
Click to expand...

could it be that other countries just limit the amount of care you get? I went to a Dr and asked about treatments done overseas. (surgery here vs months of different other treatments there). The answer was that it would take 9+ months to get the surgery overseas, so people have to suffer for months before even getting the option to get treatment that will work quickly.
 
michal1980 said:
could it be that other countries just limit the amount of care you get? I went to a Dr and asked about treatments done overseas. (surgery here vs months of different other treatments there). The answer was that it would take 9+ months to get the surgery overseas, so people have to suffer for months before even getting the option to get treatment that will work quickly.
Click to expand...

I've lived in the USA, Europe and South America and although that can be true it's not as bad as some make it seem. Friend who had hip surgery for example got a date that was several months out to replace her artificial hip. I guess that needs to get done a few times so it's not life threatening. Either way for emergency procedures they don't make you wait. So your example really would require more specifics. It will depend on what you want done. I have no idea if there's a wait for an artificial hip in the USA so even I can't make a proper comparison.

On the flip side you can leave the USA to get dental, cosmetic, or other treatments in other countries for much lower costs at the same or even better quality.

I'm not advocating a perfect system. That's a tough thing to ask for considering how much longer we live, how advanced some medical procedures are, and how convoluted it must be dealing with all the players. However lets at least face a sobering reality. It's too expensive in the USA and we are pretty much ranked dead last when they factor in availablity, quality, and cost. We're 34th for life expectency and infant mortality, we're the only country with no universal coverage in the developed world, we spend 20% of our GDP on healthcare, and nearly 2 million people go bankrupt every year due to medical bills.

Probably worth noting that both countries I have lived in outside of the USA have had healthcare systems that are ranked higher than the USA according to the World Health Organization. The USA is ranked 37. I would agree with them. For reference that puts the USA behind countries like Saudi Arabia and Cyprus. Embaressing.
 
So who will be to blame when the Republicans can't get anything through Congress due to Tea Partiers and Moderates not agreeing on anything?

- Merg
 
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