Missouri State Highway Dept vs. The KKK.

[Bluefront]

The Missouri Highway Dept. needs more money (so they say). There's a Prop. B vote coming up to raise taxes quite a bit. Missouri highways and bridges are a mess, everything's dirty, disintigrating. Problem is they have wasted much of their funds over the years, on stupid projects and dumb ideas. Here's one example:

The state has an "Adopt-A-Highway" program....not a bad idea. A person or group "adopts" a section of road or highway, promise to clean it once a month or so...in return that group gets his group's name on a sign on the road. Enter the local KKK....a small fringe group that does nothing in the state. They want to adopt a small section of I-55 south of St Louis. The State highway dept objects...have to be politically correct you know. They fight this group in court for many years, losing at every decision. Finally they agree, put up a small sign (after renaming that stretch Rosa Parks Highway). The KKK sign gets torn down. The state says it will put up another maybe. The KKK refuses to pick up any trash unless they have their sign. Then the state highway dept kicks them out of the program because they haven't picked up trash.

So here we stand, highway still dirty as hell, even though a local group volunteered to clean it. Now the Missouri State Highway Dept wants more money from me, even though this whole stupid mess cost the taxpayers a bunch of money. Is Bluefront going to vote yes on "B" ?.....when hell freezes over.

 

[deftron]

I think Missouri has the right to refuse the KKK

and if they did allow them, and the KKK didn't do what they're supposed to
(clean the highway) then they're out of the program..

Not only is it wrong to alllow a racist group to promote themselves through a perceived
state endorsement, but it isn't worth it to replace their sign every week.


Anyways, I thought communty service cleans highways

 

[Yossarian451]

I have always said that the KKK has a role in society..........
That role is target practice for our military/police snipers.

 

[Bluefront]

The courts affirmed the right of any group to get in the program many times. The local group with the name "KKK" has never done anything "racist" at all.. never has done anything anybody knows about. For as I'm concerned, anybody wants to clean up...let'em.

 

[ToBeMe]

Bluefront........................thing is "B" will pass easily...................why??? Because outside the metro St. Louis, the polls show "B" passing by a very wide margin...........again why??? Because there are so many small things packaged along with prop. B. State Highway Patrol funding for extra patrols among them which everyone seems to think will make a difference. Also about 30 bridge projects, and 50 supposed highway projects which have all been postponed due to "lack of funding" as you mentioned............I don't like it either, but, the sad part is, we may as well concede we'll have to pay the tax...............The Columbia Tribune had a story of polls taken at 20 of the local "county fairs" lately in Missouri and those polls showed 71% in favor of prop. B..................even the Post Dispatch pretty much has conceded it's a done deal............

 

[Bluefront]

ToBeMe, it never ceases to amaze me, how short is the memory of Missouri voters. This same Prop. has been passed over and over...countless times in the past. The highway dept always manages to waste the money, then comes back in a few years asking for more. The highways remain as bad as ever.

Their big deal lately is "acustic barriers".....completely useless walls built along highways to prevent some highway noise from reaching people who previously bought property close to the highways. Rather than fixing roads and bridges we really need "acustic barriers". Arrg....

 

[ToBeMe]

Yeah............about the same as paying off the same people every few years whom live/build in the flood plain even after they are offered to be "bought out" but refuse...............half of them don't even have flood insurance but are issued thousands in "grants" and "disaster relief" every few years when "Oh.......suprise.........the MO/MS river floods them out again......."

And it's not only people and homes......it's businesses too!

 

[Ultima]

So here we stand, highway still dirty as hell, even though a local group volunteered to clean it. Now the Missouri State Highway Dept wants more money from me, even though this whole stupid mess cost the taxpayers a bunch of money. Is Bluefront going to vote yes on "B" ?.....when hell freezes over.

Perhaps the taxpayers shouldn't be throwing garbage out on the highways. It makes you wonder what kind of pigs some people are when they will just dump mcdonalds baggies full of trash out the windows or throw bottles out the window...

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: Ultima

So here we stand, highway still dirty as hell, even though a local group volunteered to clean it. Now the Missouri State Highway Dept wants more money from me, even though this whole stupid mess cost the taxpayers a bunch of money. Is Bluefront going to vote yes on "B" ?.....when hell freezes over.

Perhaps the taxpayers shouldn't be throwing garbage out on the highways. It makes you wonder what kind of pigs some people are when they will just dump mcdonalds baggies full of trash out the windows or throw bottles out the window...

That's for damned sure............but that problem seems to pretty well cover the whole damned country! We need that Indian guy back with the tear running down his cheek.................I liked that.............

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
ToBeMe, it never ceases to amaze me, how short is the memory of Missouri voters. This same Prop. has been passed over and over...countless times in the past. The highway dept always manages to waste the money, then comes back in a few years asking for more. The highways remain as bad as ever.

Their big deal lately is "acustic barriers".....completely useless walls built along highways to prevent some highway noise from reaching people who previously bought property close to the highways. Rather than fixing roads and bridges we really need "acustic barriers". Arrg....

I'm curious bluefront, what did the highway department waste money on? The only example you have listed is a volunteer program that has nearly zero cost to the department and the defense of kicking the KKK out was politically motivated and used the Attorney general's office and funds, not the highway departments. So where is this waste?

 

[SuperTool]

So you are saying that a state that collects little income and sales tax has no money for public works? How could that be ?

 

[Bluefront]

Huh? Little income? If I showed you the state income tax check I wrote out in April, your opinion would change. Missouri went from a low-tax state, to a high-tax state mostly due to our now deceased ex-governor Carnahan. The roads remain one of the worst in the country.

What has happened here is money intended for roads, ends up going somewhere else. Prolonged court battles over "Adopt-A-Highway" crap is only one example. Acoustic barriers instead of pavement is another. Then we have hiring practices of the dept that use PC crap instead of qualifications is another. Ever drive past a highway dept construction zone? You'll see eight guys standing around smoking while one guy is poking at something with a shovel. It's no on "B" for me.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: Ultima

So here we stand, highway still dirty as hell, even though a local group volunteered to clean it. Now the Missouri State Highway Dept wants more money from me, even though this whole stupid mess cost the taxpayers a bunch of money. Is Bluefront going to vote yes on "B" ?.....when hell freezes over.

Perhaps the taxpayers shouldn't be throwing garbage out on the highways. It makes you wonder what kind of pigs some people are when they will just dump mcdonalds baggies full of trash out the windows or throw bottles out the window...

That's for damned sure............but that problem seems to pretty well cover the whole damned country! We need that Indian guy back with the tear running down his cheek.................I liked that.............

That guy had to run for his life when the KKK moved in though


P.S. High-tax state in the USA? Hahahahaha.... (Paying over 40% income tax here)

 

[BDawg]

Well, either way there's going to be trash on the sides of streets in Missouri.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Huh? Little income? If I showed you the state income tax check I wrote out in April, your opinion would change. Missouri went from a low-tax state, to a high-tax state mostly due to our now deceased ex-governor Carnahan. The roads remain one of the worst in the country.

What has happened here is money intended for roads, ends up going somewhere else. Prolonged court battles over "Adopt-A-Highway" crap is only one example. Acoustic barriers instead of pavement is another. Then we have hiring practices of the dept that use PC crap instead of qualifications is another. Ever drive past a highway dept construction zone? You'll see eight guys standing around smoking while one guy is poking at something with a shovel. It's no on "B" for me.

As I already pointed out Bluefront, the Adopt-a-highway defense was not paid for using highway department funding. Sound walls are a poor example because you probably don't understand the basis for them and the studies warrenting them are the direct result of litigation and federal requirements, not because your state DOT want's to build them. I see little in your comment about hiring practices that results in the loss or waste of department monies. And yes I have driven past plenty of contstruction zones, in fact I have worked in plenty of construction zones. What I'm curious to have you explain to me is why having 8 guys standing around bothers you when if it is a reconstruction project they aren't state employees. In fact I would wager you have never seen 8 guys standing around with shovels. You may have seen people standing around watching before but because you probably haven't thought that workers need supervision and quality control must be performed that people do end up standing around.

I'll ask it again Bluefront. Where is the highway money being wasted?

 

[Doggiedog]

Get your prisoners to clean up your highways. I say return chain gangs.

 

[Bluefront]

Well...The little election just finished, proved my opinion of the highway dept and it's wasteful spending is shared by a majority of voters. The prop "B" went down in flames with 72% of the votes being NO.

This is rather interesting since the St louis Post Dispatch supposedly called it a "done deal". Maybe the paper itself is a "done deal".....hopefully for me. Where's the Globe Democrat when we need it?

Couple of things the Highway Dept should have learned here.

Fix the roads and bridges...don't get involved in political issues if you're the Highway dept.

Get realistic with your projects, have priorities and stick to them before starting new ones.

The well of public taxation is not bottomless, and we do remember your failures.

Finally...Do not lie when you want more funding. We can see through your lies. When you say the Highway Patrol will have increased funding....even though the Highway Patrol in not even mentioned in the proposition.....we rightfully suspect everything you say is a pack of lies.


Now to deal with the roads and bridges of Missouri. They already have enough money to do so, say the people of the state of Missouri to the Highway dept. Deal with it (says Bluefront as he hits another pothole). Heh....

 

[Whitecloak]

the KKK can kiss my stinking ass.

 

[GSOYF]

and this is why you shouldn't live in Missouri

 

[Bluefront]

Gosh I feel so bad about what happened I'm leaving the state. I could go south to Arkansas, Bill, Monica, Hillary....ugg. West to Nebraska...drouth, grasshoppers....ick. West to Kansas, Jayhawkers, they attacked us in the last war..nope. North to Iowa..yawn. East to Illinois...don't they kill you there for traffic accidents? Hmmm

Sorry people, I'm staying...potholes or not. You people can stay in your own states, we're pretty crowded here anyway.

 

[db]

There could be a multitude of things to bring up in opposition to Prop B, but it's interesting that you chose to bring up the KKK issue.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Well...The little election just finished, proved my opinion of the highway dept and it's wasteful spending is shared by a majority of voters. The prop "B" went down in flames with 72% of the votes being NO.

This is rather interesting since the St louis Post Dispatch supposedly called it a "done deal". Maybe the paper itself is a "done deal".....hopefully for me. Where's the Globe Democrat when we need it?

Couple of things the Highway Dept should have learned here.

Fix the roads and bridges...don't get involved in political issues if you're the Highway dept.

Get realistic with your projects, have priorities and stick to them before starting new ones.

The well of public taxation is not bottomless, and we do remember your failures.

Finally...Do not lie when you want more funding. We can see through your lies. When you say the Highway Patrol will have increased funding....even though the Highway Patrol in not even mentioned in the proposition.....we rightfully suspect everything you say is a pack of lies.


Now to deal with the roads and bridges of Missouri. They already have enough money to do so, say the people of the state of Missouri to the Highway dept. Deal with it (says Bluefront as he hits another pothole). Heh....

Bluefront, accept the fact that building highways is a political issue. It always will be and always has been. Where the road is placed, who's homes get demolished, hell even the number of lanes is a political decision. Building roads is political. I particularly like your statement to get realistic about projects becuase this is a perfect example of your ignorance. In fact you have never even looked at your states STIP. STIP is state transportation improvement plan, and most states have 5 year plans. So in your ignorance you think the DOT has no plan when in fact they plan projects 5 years out and longer. Most highway projects take at least 5 years just to go to concept to final design. For example the new I-70 crossing of the Miss. has been planned for over a decade and is still under design if I'm not mistaken. Larger reconstruction projects like I-15 in SLC and I-25 in Denver took over 20 years to complete the required red tape to build.

But see the funniest part here is that I challenged you to show me the waste in the DOT spending and you have shown nothing. But it's ok, the people that know what's going on actually wanted to build some roads before they went to sh!t and you and the other voters chose to ignore that advice and kill the plan. No one's heart is broken and no one in the DOT really cares if the public wants the roads to go to sh!t. Because that is what this is about, the public in your state decided to let the roads deteriorate rather than fixing them. And after the fall apart you will all probably vote a tax increase to fix them, the fun part comes when it will cost you more later because it's already ruined and has to be fast tracked. So shortsighted voters like yourself choose to spend more later. Changing the oil costs to much, so you would rather blow the engine and replace the whole thing.

Before you critisize the DOT you should actually understand what the DOT does becuase you don't have a clue.

 

[Bluefront]

rahvin, sounds to me like you work for a highway dept somewhere? Clueless? Sorry...I'm not clueless when I see my tax-dollar being dumpted down a bottomless pit by some half-wit highway worker building a road to nowhere, from a town with a population of two.

Oh, by the way, there's still that little stretch of I-55 south waiting to be "adopted". How about you, rahvin?

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
rahvin, sounds to me like you work for a highway dept somewhere? Clueless? Sorry...I'm not clueless when I see my tax-dollar being dumpted down a bottomless pit by some half-wit highway worker building a road to nowhere, from a town with a population of two.

Oh, by the way, there's still that little stretch of I-55 south waiting to be "adopted". How about you, rahvin?

Yes you are clueless. You are so clueless you can't provide an example of any money being wasted. I could provide examples of waste, but I recoginze that what I percieve as waste may not be waste and in fact some of what I percieve as waste is necessary to get any job done. Like I said BlueFront, vote against it. It will cost you more later, doesn't really matter because the piper gets paid eventually unless you wanna drive on gravel roads. Responsible and intelligent people recognize that if we wish to preserve the infrastructure of this country it costs money, others bury their heads in the sand and use excuses to cover up for their selfish desire to not contribute to societies infastructure.

Some might wonder why the government is wanting to spend so much on highways recently so I will explain. The design life of the highway system as originally constructed was 40-50 years for the Interstate system. Most of the highway system was built in the 60's with a tiny bit in the 50's and a small percentage in the 70's. Do a little math and you will realize that the Interstate system is at it's lifespan. What does that mean? A complete reconstruction of the highway system, and this time the Fed's aren't paying 80-90% of the construction. Typical match on highway projects these days is 10-20% so the states are footing the bill of reconstructing the highway system. Potholes cost more to fix in the long run than rebuilding the highway but america is full of a bunch of uneducated nitwits these days that would sell out our future for a little present day reward.

 

[DDad]

A few thoughts from the NE "corner" of the State

For those of you NOT from Missouri- Part of the problem with the recently deceased Prop B had nothing to do with the merits of the particular issue (but I'll get to that in a second). It had to do with the previous Highway projects program- the "15 year plan". This plan was enacted 8-9 years ago, without a public vote- raised gas taxes (if I recall correctly) 7 cents a gallon, promised that Bridges and Roads would be fixed (for the most part, they werent) New roads would be built (4 lanes linking all towns of 5000 or more), Bridges would be added in the ST L area to help ease traffic congestion, etc, etc

5-6 years after the passage of the above bill (or 5 years into the "15 year plan") the Highway department claimed that it had miscalculated the amount need to complete everything it had promised, and that it had already spent all funds (actual and projected), and that no further progress was planned. AFAIK, there was no accounting for where the funds actually went, or what was "improved".

Prop B would have raised gas taxes 4 cents a gallon, added a sales tax. For this we would get everything they had promised before. After some folks looked at the figures, the Highway Department quietly admitted that the Prop was not enough money (again) to do all that it was promising- in fact it was about half of what it needed.

Is it a surprise it went down so hard?


As far as the Klan- didn't they put up the signs for a couple of months- several were vandalized (imagine that)- but the Klan never fulfilled it's side of the bargain- actually picking up the trash?