Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
It's about the shot count.

Right now it's at 7, and those shots are pretty solidly accounted for. *

One was fired in the SUV, and six were fired at Brown from the front.

Any claims of Wilson firing at Brown while chasing him would add additional shots, because those shots had to be from behind, and they had to miss Brown.

**********

* Now then, out of the first seven, we have one that might have been from behind, according to Baden.

If one of those hit Brown from behind, it means that Wilson nearly missed Brown to the right with that one shot, and then nearly missed Brown to the left with the other five.

It seems unlikely that Wilson's accuracy changed like that.


IMO, it's more likely that Wilson nearly missed all six times to his left, or Brown's right, in quick succession.


Damn, that's an interesting point, didn't see that till now. Nice look.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
15,449
136
More lies from Crump.

One of the biggest issues with the case was lack of information right? But one of the biggest reasons lack of information has been a problem is because of MISINFORMATION being put out by Crump and Co.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...Jul1zQvgsnG&src_vid=0mAaJMBxKA4&v=7qPPsuX4HGo

For a lot of us, we knew there was going to be big issues the truth was going to face as soon as Crump put his hooks into this case.

For the more questioning of us, like me, I think Crump on the case speaks to how weak the case is, not how strong it is. Crump is a bad sign, not a good one, the guy is a straight up shiesty person and if he had even a little integrity for Brown or Brown's family he wouldn't have poinsened this whole thing with his presence. He's here for $$$, nothing else.


More of how Crump operates and we should all expect from him given he took the Brown case,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wjrlXLIRZE&index=2&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dQ-WqO5qPPJiJul1zQvgsnG

What does either video have to do with anything? A lying family/lawyer doesn't change the facts, nor should it influence your judgement of said facts.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
Brown ran, he was shot at, he was hit, his body reacted to the hit by jerking his body and turning around. There is no reason to not believe that the one ambiguous shot was the one that hit brown while he was running away. Brown then turns around and stops running and the officer now has a much better shot and he takes five of them.

Actually nothing supports that chain of events. Nothing concrete that is. Opinion and what we've seen in the news to date isn't concrete by the way.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Again, there is nothing inconsistent with the shot count and the eye witness accounts. Brown ran, he was shot at, he was hit, his body reacted to the hit by jerking his body and turning around. There is no reason to not believe that the one ambiguous shot was the one that hit brown while he was running away. Brown then turns around and stops running and the officer now has a much better shot and he takes five of them.

Brown's felony accomplice said brown was hit by the officer when by police car (likely going for the officers gun). And if you look at the autopsy reports this also verifies the officers account as well, you can easily imagine brown is reaching with his right arm and in a struggle for the weapon it fires pointed laterally at his forearm.

That's what that shot is.

All others are from the front.

It is impossible for Brown to have been shot from behind. It's simply impossible.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Are you not following the case at all? Reading the internet from last week?

Plenty of witnesses, probably close to 10, all corroborate the cop's story. They're just people who don't care about 15 minutes of fame nor want to become targets. So all of the their testimony was private with police.

But right now, the purden of proof is on the prosecutor, not the defense.

The most likely case is that Brown as an out of control thug who thought he was invincible and took it to the wrong cop.

Textbook case of "when keeping it real goes wrong".

No, I have not been following this closely at all, Link please to your claim of nearly ten witnesses that back up the officer or is it the "sources" report(which proves nothing)?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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Again, there is nothing inconsistent with the shot count and the eye witness accounts. Brown ran, he was shot at, he was hit, his body reacted to the hit by jerking his body and turning around. There is no reason to not believe that the one ambiguous shot was the one that hit brown while he was running away. Brown then turns around and stops running and the officer now has a much better shot and he takes five of them.

Brown doesn't react to being shot other than turning around?

He doesn't yell to Johnson, or just yell for help in general?

People are all around, and Johnson is hiding behind an occupied car.

"He shot me, call 911!"

"Help! He just shot me!"

"He shot me in the back! Help! Somebody call 911!"

"You (curse word), you shot me!"
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
Actually nothing supports that chain of events. Nothing concrete that is. Opinion and what we've seen in the news to date isn't concrete by the way.

Nothing but 3-4 eyewitness accounts vs ...? what unnamed source?
 
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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
What does either video have to do with anything? A lying family/lawyer doesn't change the facts, nor should it influence your judgement of said facts.

Crump becomes like a barometer, helping point out to us where BS and/or misinformation or flaky information is.

He made the TM trajedy worse for his efforts and I'm of the mind he will have the same effect on the Brown case. It's a bad sign he flocked to this, he leaves unnecesary damage in his wake as he pursues purely selfish goals. It's merely unfortunate he has his grip on this case and I think this is a sign that the Brown family was devastated and able to be taken advantage of and that Crump takes advantage of people he has no right to. I don't think anyone informed or in their right mind would bring Crump and Co into something like this.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Nothing but 3-4 eyewitness accounts...

To the media, not their official statements to police or investigators.

Think about what kind of "eye witness" would want to talk to the media? The ones that would lie.

We know now that those eye witness accounts are impossible.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
This case seems very very similar to the Trayvon Martin case. Initially, based on the information provided, it seemed to me that the killing of an unarmed person (TM) was unlawful. However, I'm always in favor of finding out the actual facts before rushing to judgment. In that case it became painfully obvious over time that GZ was obviously innocent and that the racists and race baiters just wanted him in jail as "justice" no matter what the actual evidence said. Politics got involved, celebrities got involved, the lefty media got involved, the president decided that if he had a son he's be a thug criminal like TM and so forth, and prosecutors were pressured to bring charges against GZ that should have never been brought. GZ should never have been tried, but the justice system worked and he walked.

Based on initial information, I thought the killing of an unarmed guy (MB) by an officer seemed unlawful. But now it looks like the same thing unfolding all over again, with lo and behold the same cast of racists and scumbags (crump for example) involved. The same people fanning the flames of racism, rushing to judgment and not wanting to see the actual facts.

If Wilson is guilty, the investigation will show it. At this point we don't know all the details, but one set of people want to rush to a conclusion (including the governor who wants "vigorous prosecution" with any finding of a crime even existing yet) and mob justice.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Brown doesn't react to being shot other than turning around?

He doesn't yell to Johnson, or just yell for help in general?

People are all around, and Johnson is hiding behind an occupied car.

"He shot me, call 911!"

"Help! He just shot me!"

"He shot me in the back! Help! Somebody call 911!"

"You (curse word), you shot me!"

Well it is possible to empty a clip faster than it is to speak an entire sentence. I think you can pretty much empty a clip in about 1 sec. Average finger muscle twitch speed is 30 mS. Just about anybody can pull a trigger every 150 mS (5 times longer than average finger muscle twitch time). You could begin to scream in that amount of time but it doubtful if anybody would hear you.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
So, the word "charge" was never said...just as I thought.;)

:|:|:|

Yikes if serious. As if thinking was taking place here.


"the dude (Brown) started running ... kept coming towards the police"

How would you define charge?


Would your ability to think critically change if the information supported a guilty Wilson rather than an innocent Wilson?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
It's about the shot count.

Right now it's at 7, and those shots are pretty solidly accounted for. *

One was fired in the SUV, and six were fired at Brown from the front.

Any claims of Wilson firing at Brown while chasing him would add additional shots, because those shots had to be from behind, and they had to miss Brown.

**********

* Now then, out of the first seven, we have one that might have been from behind, according to Baden.

If one of those hit Brown from behind, it means that Wilson nearly missed Brown to the right with that one shot, and then nearly missed Brown to the left with the other five.

It seems unlikely that Wilson's accuracy changed like that.

IMO, it's more likely that Wilson nearly missed all six times to his left, or Brown's right, in quick succession.

Running vs standing still? plausible reason...
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
No, I have not been following this closely at all, Link please to your claim of nearly ten witnesses that back up the officer or is it the "sources" report(which proves nothing)?

I've watched several statements by the PD when discussing what happened with the officer and they have said nearly a dozen witnesses came forward, individually, and gave very identical accounts of what happened, accounts that also align with the cops story.

The only witnesses you've seen are the people who want to be on tv and backup brown's false narrative.

Not trying to argue, just point out what I've seen. I'm no authority on this.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
:|:|:|

Yikes if serious. As if thinking was taking place here.


"the dude (Brown) started running ... kept coming towards the police"

How would you define charge?


Would your ability to think critically change if the information supported a guilty Wilson rather than an innocent Wilson?

No, it wouldn't.

Your willing to "jump" all over one random version, yet deny all the other more credible eyewitness accounts, whose thinking now?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
I've watched several statements by the PD when discussing what happened with the officer and they have said nearly a dozen witnesses came forward, individually, and gave very identical accounts of what happened, accounts that also align with the cops story.

The only witnesses you've seen are the people who want to be on tv and backup brown's false narrative.

Not trying to argue, just point out what I've seen. I'm no authority on this.

Link please, I've seen no official declaration by the police that they have these dozen witnesses, only a post on a right-wing blog by a reporter who gets her info from an unnamed source.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
15,449
136
This case seems very very similar to the Trayvon Martin case. Initially, based on the information provided, it seemed to me that the killing of an unarmed person (TM) was unlawful. However, I'm always in favor of finding out the actual facts before rushing to judgment. In that case it became painfully obvious over time that GZ was obviously innocent and that the racists and race baiters just wanted him in jail as "justice" no matter what the actual evidence said. Politics got involved, celebrities got involved, the lefty media got involved, the president decided that if he had a son he's be a thug criminal like TM and so forth, and prosecutors were pressured to bring charges against GZ that should have never been brought. GZ should never have been tried, but the justice system worked and he walked.

Based on initial information, I thought the killing of an unarmed guy (MB) by an officer seemed unlawful. But now it looks like the same thing unfolding all over again, with lo and behold the same cast of racists and scumbags (crump for example) involved. The same people fanning the flames of racism, rushing to judgment and not wanting to see the actual facts.

If Wilson is guilty, the investigation will show it. At this point we don't know all the details, but one set of people want to rush to a conclusion (including the governor who wants "vigorous prosecution" with any finding of a crime even existing yet) and mob justice.


Just a quick reminder, Zimmerman wasn't found to be guilty, he wasn't found to be not guilty. There is a difference.

The difference between the two cases is that we have eye witnesses that had a clear view of the situation.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
15,449
136
I've watched several statements by the PD when discussing what happened with the officer and they have said nearly a dozen witnesses came forward, individually, and gave very identical accounts of what happened, accounts that also align with the cops story.

The only witnesses you've seen are the people who want to be on tv and backup brown's false narrative.

Not trying to argue, just point out what I've seen. I'm no authority on this.

Link to such statements made by the police?
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
91
Slight correction, there are RUMORS that police have over a dozen witnesses. That has not been proven yet. You are jumping the gun, trigger.

There are rumors that the brown camp witnesses are credible. Just that...

There is no difference in the credibility of either side other than the narrative is subtly changing in regard to what people think originally could have happened.

What we will see, is that ***if the officer was justified and followed proper protocol, the Brown supporters are fully invested and will double down on their narrative that the officer was in the wrong.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
Exactly, the truth hasn't "come out" yet. So, you as of now support neither side correct?

The truth may have "come out", and we just don't realize it yet.

Whether Wilson justly or injustly killed Brown is always a subjective judgment, and even if two people agree on the exact same scenario, they can disagree on the outcome. Let's set that aside.

What happened? I am open to both evidence that supports a just killing, and evidence that supports an unjust killing. Some of the evidence on each of those "sides" probably are true, and some of the evidence on each of those "sides" probably are false. I'm not focused on pushing a side. In the end, my opinion doesn't matter in the least (as does the opinions of most on this forum), I can easily sit back and wait for witnesses to present what their memory recalls, evidence to be discovered and presented, and possible pictures formed.


When posting, I've seemed to take the "Wilson side", but it's more because in this particular situation, those who are pushing hard to prove and persuade an unjust killing, are intentionally/unintentionally causing a lot of collateral damage that can never be undone. And as such, I believe it is important to push back against those who are pushing their preconceived biases.

And I am also human, I cannot deny some fun will be had if the truth goes against those who have used the situation and this forum as their bully pulpit.
 
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xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
What we will see, is that ***if the officer was justified and followed proper protocol, the Brown supporters are fully invested and will double down on their narrative that the officer was in the wrong.

Of course they will. After all, many of them feel as if Wilson's duty was to retreat here.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
No, it wouldn't.

Your willing to "jump" all over one random version, yet deny all the other more credible eyewitness accounts, whose thinking now?

I know you're thinking critically, how else could you take a stance that in the following examples,


"the dude (Brown) started running ... kept coming towards the police"

is materially different than,

"the dude (Brown) charged the police",

Your position stems from bias, not stupidity IMO.