Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
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We could ask Oscar Grant about how unlikely it is to be shot by a cop when you are handcuffed and with people recording it. But since he was murdered by that cop, I guess we can't.

You've got a great voice, though I don't understand or am misinterpreting logic here.

Grant was shot by a cop who thought he was using a taser not a gun. You ignore this by trying to tie Grant relevance to Brown here.

The investigation into Grant's death states that the man sitting next to Grant also told police he heard Mehserle say "I'm going to taze him."

Then,

When Mehersle shot Grant he appeared obviously and clearly visibly shocked on the tape saying "Oh my god, Oh my God".

He mistook the gun for a taser. Sorry if you don't believe this, it's the most plausible explanation rather than the cop shooting to death Grant intentionally in front of hundreds of people.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
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Apparently you guys have not heard about the latest eyewitness. It was either on CNN or MSNBC late last night around 1:30. He first saw the officer running after brown and firing at him (from his window) he also saw Brown jerk as though he may have gotten hit, he ran downstairs and saw Brown clutching his arms in his stomach (now facing the officer) taking a step or two forward and stumbling towards his knees as the officer continued to shoot.
I have no "side" at this point, but I'm leaning towards the side with actual witnesses vs un-named"sources" so far.

Interesting choice of words. You can choose to switch which side you are on. But the only real sides are "truth" and "not truth". I know exactly what side I am on. And I will never be teetering back and forth over what side I support.

When you choose a side in the way you are choosing a side, you are placing your faith in one version of the events, and as a result, seeing the evidence as it supports the version you chose to place your faith in.

Break away from that mentality. Locking in to one "side" verses the other "side" excludes the possibility that neither are what really happened.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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Who is the witness for Wilson's side?

Why would there need to be more than 7 bullets? The amount of shots fired and when they were shot and when they hit brown all match up to eye witness accounts.

We just haven't heard from Wilson's attorneys yet. There's no reason yet, for them to chime in.

We need more than 7 shots, because 7 are accounted for already. 1 at the car, and 6 from in front.

If Wilson was firing at Brown, from behind brown, as Brown fled, they would be additional shots. Shots that missed Brown.

We have heard results from 2 autopsies, and both have all bullet wounds coming from the front.

The Baden autopsy had one shot which could have come from either direction.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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With no video, it's the officer's account against multiple eyewitnesses and very little definitive forensics...the witnesses have all stated the officer fired at Brown while he was facing the officer as well as while the was running away.

Your lying again. Not all the witnesses. Police have over a dozen witnesses exactly corroborating the officers account.

Then we have the physical evidence and witness accounts of the felony assault and battery or attempted murder of a police officer by Brown.

All the evidence points to a good shoot. You haven't learned your lesson nor from history and refuse common sense, fact, logic and truth.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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Interesting choice of words. You can choose to switch which side you are on. But the only real sides are "truth" and "not truth". I know exactly what side I am on. And I will never be teetering back and forth over what side I support.

Exactly, the truth hasn't "come out" yet. So, you as of now support neither side correct?
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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Just by sheer chance, we will have several different versions of events from eye witnesses.

That always happens when a group of people witness a shocking event.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
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We just haven't heard from Wilson's attorneys yet. There's no reason yet, for them to chime in.

We need more than 7 shots, because 7 are accounted for already. 1 at the car, and 6 from in front.

If Wilson was firing at Brown, from behind brown, as Brown fled, they would be additional shots. Shots that missed Brown.

We have heard results from 2 autopsies, and both have all bullet wounds coming from the front.

The Baden autopsy had one shot which could have come from either direction.


Your interpretation of eye witness accounts is wrong.
Eye witnesses say a shot was fired from the car when brown was in the vehicle. Correct?

Eye witnesses say brown then fled and the officer pursued and fired a shot causing brown to jerk. Brown then turned around and five more shots were fired, including one that entered from the top of the head.

Show me an eye witnesses account that showed more shots were fired before brown turned around.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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Your lying again. Not all the witnesses. Police have over a dozen witnesses exactly corroborating the officers account.

Then we have the physical evidence and witness accounts of the felony assault and battery or attempted murder of a police officer by Brown.

Name one or show their account in their words...bet you can't.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Your lying again. Not all the witnesses. Police have over a dozen witnesses exactly corroborating the officers account.

Then we have the physical evidence and witness accounts of the felony assault and battery or attempted murder of a police officer by Brown.

All the evidence points to a good shoot. You haven't learned your lesson nor from history and refuse common sense, fact, logic and truth.


Slight correction, there are RUMORS that police have over a dozen witnesses. That has not been proven yet. You are jumping the gun, trigger.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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Your interpretation of eye witness accounts is wrong.
Eye witnesses say a shot was fired from the car when brown was in the vehicle. Correct?

Eye witnesses say brown then fled and the officer pursued and fired a shot causing brown to jerk. Brown then turned around and five more shots were fired, including one that entered from the top of the head.

Show me an eye witnesses account that showed more shots were fired before brown turned around.

I didn't say there were any such witnesses.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Name one or show their account in their words...bet you can't.


If you haven't seen this, it's worth considering. The man giving his account of events is an account that differs from "Brown shot while surrenduring".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAaJMBxKA4


He wasn't hiding behind a car as Dorian Johnson was, and he didn't just flee while being an accomplice from a strong arm robbery as is the case with Dorian Johnson. Starkly different account posted from this eyewitness about the moments before the fatal shots were fired.
 

WackyDan

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2004
4,794
68
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All shots were to the front.

So he was running away...backwards?

You yahoos never learn, every time you're wrong on these cases. Every time. You simply refuse common sense fact and truth.

I think what "eye witnesses" might be confusing is the shot that happened in the struggle for the officer's gun and the initial retreat by Brown.

So, it can be viewed/perceived a few or countless ways. Only one or a mix of the two might be somewhat accurate.

People don't look at the activity until they hear the initial shot. Perhaps after the initial shot, Brown runs away before turning around after the officer tells him to halt/freeze, whatever. All they see when they are looking for where the noise came from is a kid running from a cop who now has his firearm drawn making it look like he just took a shot at the kid in the back. When Brown taunts the officer, perhaps it looked like his hands were being raised in surrender when it was really a hostile gesture and as brown started his charge, the officer shot him 5 or 6 more times. The decision to shoot would have been made the moment he charged ( anyone here can look up the 21 foot training for police -1.5 seconds to dash 21 feet to the officer and understand why you shoot first.). So those same witnesses could have misconstrued those actions by Brown and assume the officer was wrong.

I'm speculating, but I'm in the camp that is giving the officer the benefit of the doubt more so now that we are getting some more info leaking out.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
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If you haven't seen this, it's worth considering. The man giving his account of events is an account that differs from "Brown shot while surrenduring".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mAaJMBxKA4


He wasn't hiding behind a car as Dorian Johnson was, and he didn't just flee while being an accomplice from a strong arm robbery as is the case with Dorian Johnson. Starkly different account posted from this eyewitness about the moments before the fatal shots were fired.

I've heard that. That's the one that many on here have turned into the claim that Brown lowered his head and charged the officer, yet the guy never mentions that.
 
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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
More lies from Crump.

One of the biggest issues with the case was lack of information right? But one of the biggest reasons lack of information has been a problem is because of MISINFORMATION being put out by Crump and Co.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...Jul1zQvgsnG&src_vid=0mAaJMBxKA4&v=7qPPsuX4HGo

For a lot of us, we knew there was going to be big issues the truth was going to face as soon as Crump put his hooks into this case.

For the more questioning of us, like me, I think Crump on the case speaks to how weak the case is, not how strong it is. Crump is a bad sign, not a good one, the guy is a straight up shiesty person and if he had even a little integrity for Brown or Brown's family he wouldn't have poinsened this whole thing with his presence. He's here for $$$, nothing else.


More of how Crump operates and we should all expect from him given he took the Brown case,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wjrlXLIRZE&index=2&list=PLfrlsC1yJ2dQ-WqO5qPPJiJul1zQvgsnG
 
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Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
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I've heard that. That's the one that many on here have turned into the claim the Brown lowered his head and charged the office, yet the guy never mentions that.


I don't understand. The significance is the guy mentions Brown charging the officer. That the guy doesn't affirmatively say Brown lowered his head is insignificant here because 1) he wasn't specifically asked about head lowering 2) he was loosly describing the encounter not meticulously explaining it 3) lowering of the head isn't the big deal, charging the officer is and lowering of the head *could* be implicit to charging *could not* be, doesn't really matter as a derivate of the charging possiblity

It could be this eyewitness account mistakes charging for falling, but it appeared somewhat clear there was continual charging by Brown from this persons account.
 
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CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Your lying again. Not all the witnesses. Police have over a dozen witnesses exactly corroborating the officers account.

Then we have the physical evidence and witness accounts of the felony assault and battery or attempted murder of a police officer by Brown.

All the evidence points to a good shoot. You haven't learned your lesson nor from history and refuse common sense, fact, logic and truth.

Yea, such strong evidence like , and . Can't forget a witness like .

Yep, rock solid.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
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Then I have no idea what your post is about.

It's about the shot count.

Right now it's at 7, and those shots are pretty solidly accounted for. *

One was fired in the SUV, and six were fired at Brown from the front.

Any claims of Wilson firing at Brown while chasing him would add additional shots, because those shots had to be from behind, and they had to miss Brown.

**********

* Now then, out of the first seven, we have one that might have been from behind, according to Baden.

If one of those hit Brown from behind, it means that Wilson nearly missed Brown to the right with that one shot, and then nearly missed Brown to the left with the other five.

It seems unlikely that Wilson's accuracy changed like that.

IMO, it's more likely that Wilson nearly missed all six times to his left, or Brown's right, in quick succession.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
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I think what "eye witnesses" might be confusing is the shot that happened in the struggle for the officer's gun and the initial retreat by Brown.

So, it can be viewed/perceived a few or countless ways. Only one or a mix of the two might be somewhat accurate.

People don't look at the activity until they hear the initial shot. Perhaps after the initial shot, Brown runs away before turning around after the officer tells him to halt/freeze, whatever. All they see when they are looking for where the noise came from is a kid running from a cop who now has his firearm drawn making it look like he just took a shot at the kid in the back. When Brown taunts the officer, perhaps it looked like his hands were being raised in surrender when it was really a hostile gesture and as brown started his charge, the officer shot him 5 or 6 more times. The decision to shoot would have been made the moment he charged ( anyone here can look up the 21 foot training for police -1.5 seconds to dash 21 feet to the officer and understand why you shoot first.). So those same witnesses could have misconstrued those actions by Brown and assume the officer was wrong.

I'm speculating, but I'm in the camp that is giving the officer the benefit of the doubt more so now that we are getting some more info leaking out.


Ah, so you now believe that the guy who was running for his life, turned and said fuck it, I'm going to charge at this police officer who has a gun and who has already tried to shoot him twice?

Yep makes total sense! I mean that's how normal people instinctively react, right?


So other than speculation and hearsay what exactly has caused you to give the officer the benefit of the doubt? Seeing a video of the most violent robbery ever? Lol! You aren't interested in the truth so stop pretending;)
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
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I don't understand. The significance is the guy mentions Brown charging the officer. That the guy doesn't affirmatively say Brown lowered his head is insignificant here because 1) he wasn't specifically asked about head lowering 2) he was loosly describing the encounter not meticulously explaining it

I don't think I heard the word "charge" either...timestamp?
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
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Is it illegal for an officer to shoot at an unarmed person who is running away from them? So far there are three witnesses that state that the officer shot at Brown while he was running away from the officer, no witnesses have stated that is not the case. If it is illegal for an officer to shoot at someone unarmed running away, then he is guilty of that.

Are you not following the case at all? Reading the internet from last week?

Plenty of witnesses, probably close to 10, all corroborate the cop's story. They're just people who don't care about 15 minutes of fame nor want to become targets. So all of the their testimony was private with police.

But right now, the purden of proof is on the prosecutor, not the defense.

The most likely case is that Brown as an out of control thug who thought he was invincible and took it to the wrong cop.

Textbook case of "when keeping it real goes wrong".
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,565
15,449
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It's about the shot count.

Right now it's at 7, and those shots a re pretty solidly accounted for. *

One was fired in the SUV, and six were fired at Brown from the front.

Any claims of Wilson firing at Brown while chasing him would add additional shots, because those shots had to be from behind, and they had to miss Brown.

**********

* Now then, out of the first seven, we have one that might have been from behind, according to Baden.

If one of those hit Brown from behind, it means that Wilson nearly missed Brown to the right with that one shot, and then nearly missed Brown to the left with the other five.

It seems unlikely that Wilson's accuracy changed like that.

IMO, it's more likely that Wilson nearly missed all six times to his left, or Brown's right, in quick succession.

Again, there is nothing inconsistent with the shot count and the eye witness accounts. Brown ran, he was shot at, he was hit, his body reacted to the hit by jerking his body and turning around. There is no reason to not believe that the one ambiguous shot was the one that hit brown while he was running away. Brown then turns around and stops running and the officer now has a much better shot and he takes five of them.