Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
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What evidence do we have other than I'm fairly certain it can be agreed that Brown is dead and Wilson did the shooting?



Only to someone with questionable objectivity, like yourself.

So far it appears cops may be lying about physical evidence. That to me makes them less credible
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
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So far it appears cops may be lying about physical evidence. That to me makes them less credible

Again, what evidence? Should be easy to answer that question especially if you are accusing someone over lying about it.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
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So far it appears cops may be lying about physical evidence. That to me makes them less credible


You're using a double standard here. Leaves everything at square one if you remove it. So there is the possibility your entire position on the case (Wilson Guilty) is due to cozy applications of double standards to suit your notions of what occurred.

This is generally what we are trying to move away from. The danger of what you are working with should be clear, we saw the riots and violence that sprung up as a result of the aftermath in the shooting death of Brown.

This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end - which you can never afford to lose - with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
"Prevailing" as posited above, has in some cases been confused to a dangerous degree between "Guilty Wilson" and "Rigorous Honest Investigation to bring about the truth". I completely agree that trust deserves to be questioned given the balance of power in this situation, particularly in lieu of past police and investigative/DA/results behavior across the nation where justice has been sacrificed to serve agendas. There are still brutal facts to confront in order to prevail.
 
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xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
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broken orbital

The police haven't released any of that, nor, to my knowledge have they commented on it. That information was gathered and released by media and has yet to be verified.

You are calling that evidence just to try and advance your position. Pathetic.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
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Only because they aren't giving you the answers you're demanding Right Now!!

That's not evidence of lying.

And I often don't even know how to tell the difference between official and unofficial evidence.

A lot of people are clamoring to be the first to "report" something, they are picking up up on the smallest tidbits of overheard conversations of anyone even remotely connected, and running with them.

And then you have "reporters" pushing hard to get answers, combined with an environment of "no immediate answers" means "more violence", the person being asked can only preset his current understanding of the situation, which may or may not change as more details get sorted out in the coming days.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
You're using a double standard here. Leaves everything at square one if you remove it. So there is the possibility your entire position on the case (Wilson Guilty) is due to cozy applications of double standards to suit your notions of what occurred.

This is generally what we are trying to move away from. The danger of what you are working with should be clear, we saw the riots and violence that sprung up as a result of the aftermath in the shooting death of Brown.

"Prevailing" as posited above, has in some cases been confused to a dangerous degree between "Guilty Wilson" and "Rigorous Honest Investigation to bring about the truth". I completely agree that trust deserves to be questioned given the balance of power in this situation, particularly in lieu of past police and investigative/DA/results behavior across the nation where justice has been sacrificed to serve agendas. There are still brutal facts to confront in order to prevail.

If one of witnesses said the cop punched Brown in the face causing injury absent any evidence would be lying about physical evidence. We have yet to see proof of broken orbital. I think my standards are the same.
 

Reasonable Doubt

Senior member
Nov 18, 2009
698
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BviXtInIMAAPRRk.jpg:large
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
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We have yet to see proof of broken orbital.

Yet you are calling it evidence. Not only that, police are lying about it.

Your standards are not the same in that, as Attic stated, they are double. I'll also add your standards don't fit any description synonymous with objective either.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
You just love name calling don't you? I'll agree that racism still exists, but it's no longer white on blacks. It's black lynch mobs after whites.

You think there are roving black lynch mobs. If it wasn't for people like stewox on here, that is probably the stupidest thing ever said on this forum.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
The police haven't released any of that, nor, to my knowledge have they commented on it. That information was gathered and released by media and has yet to be verified.

You are calling that evidence just to try and advance your position. Pathetic.

It was leaked not officially released by the police. Are you saying the media fabricated that story??
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
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Dorian is an interesting cat though, it appears that he returned the cigarellos to the clerk when Brown was in that store and took cigarellos. If this is true, speaks pretty heavy to positive of Dorians character (doing right thing in face of obstacles-in that case browns intent to steal cigarellos).

Wow, never heard that one.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
If one of witnesses said the cop punched Brown in the face causing injury absent any evidence would be lying about physical evidence. We have yet to see proof of broken orbital. I think my standards are the same.

Hell, there may even be legal issues preventing the discussion of other people's medical records.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,764
28,977
136
Yet you are calling it evidence. Not only that, police are lying about it.

Your standards are not the same in that, as Attic stated, they are double. I'll also add your standards don't fit any description synonymous with objective either.

The police are calling it evidence. They claim Brown gave the cop a beating. Broken orbital is physical evidence.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
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If one of witnesses said the cop punched Brown in the face causing injury absent any evidence would be lying about physical evidence. We have yet to see proof of broken orbital. I think my standards are the same.

As of know I'm unclear on this position then.

The broken orbital info has not been released by the cops AFAIK, only by other sources. So their (cops) lack of proving it, can't really be logically used to undermine their credibility overall in the case nor their credibility of asserting "broken orbital". Unless we are working with assumption that the cops did leak the "broken orbital", which is possible, or that the cops did release the "broken orbital" info, which i'm unaware of.
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
2
76
Wow, never heard that one.


I draw that based on the entire video footage of the encounter, leading up to the theft and the Brown assault of the clerk and then Brown leaving. Dorian IMO can be clearly seen returning something to the clerks counter area. Some comments of video drew my attention to this aspect.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/



Again picture would put an end to the speculation and we can move on to other evidence.

Police haven't released/commented on this information on the injury or that Wilson was beaten nor have you backed up the claim that they did.

From your link:

According to the well-placed source

You are all over the place. First its evidence released and lied about. Then its we have yet to see proof. Now its evidence that they should release so we can end speculation.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
well in Mike Brown's case, I'm sure every reasonable person knows he would have murdered someone eventually, possibly even the cop that shot him.

Dude was out of control crazy big bear. Not a young cute pup.

The chatter seems to point to a strong possibility he was intent on injuring the cop. "Eventually" murder is not fair to say. Even if Brown had won the fight and killed top cop, I don't think it would be "murder" because it wasn't pre-planned? In the Martin case, most reasonable people would agree that Martin, if he wasn't shot, likely wouldn't have stopped until Zimmerman was greatly injured if not dead.

But the larger point is, the graphic collage was cherry picked to "prove" a point that is only "proved" because of the cherry picking. And the title underneath of "murdered" is flat out false in at least the ones I know of (I don't know who all 6 people are).