Mississippi girl is burned alive.

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Atreus21

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Mursilis said:
Then think again. The deterrent effect of capital punishment is minimal, from all the studies I've seen. If you or anyone else has information to the contrary, I'd be happy to see it.
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I couldn't care less about the utility of capital punishment in this case. Anyone who does this deserves death.
 
P

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
GarfieldtheCat said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution#United_States

This lists few. Seems like once dead, no one wants to bring it up in case they were innocent.
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A study that says they believe 4% of those on death row to be innocent doesn't actually prove that any innocent people were executed.

As I said, I don't doubt that it could happen (and that it probably has), but the closest I see to a real conclusive case of execution of an innocent on that list goes back to 1863. Other cases are listed where there is reason to doubt that the person was guilty, but there isn't proof that they were in fact innocent.
 
alzan

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
SlickSnake said:
Do you think the average diehard conservative who is tough on crime and harsh punishment for violent criminals would tend to agree or disagree with me?

Do you think the average diehard liberal who is weak on crime and favors parole and rehabilitation for violent criminals would tend to agree or disagree with me?

Obviously, anyone of either camp can also freely choose to split hairs on all the violent crime issues and fall into the margins. But we are where we are today because even the worst violent career criminals are now seen as victims themselves, which then belittles and demeans the true victims of their horrible crimes and that makes the victims painful suffering and deaths all most an after thought, as far as the current liberal justice system goes. And it is most certainly an overly liberal, violent criminal coddling, politically correct mindset that got us to this point.
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Question is unanswerable due to posters' tendency to generalize, stereotype and pigeonhole.

See above

Who sees violent criminals as victims? We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system; and as a system that is ever-evolving it has influences from all ideologies; liberal, conservative or otherwise.

What got us here is many-faceted; you can lay the responsibility for it at anyone's feet you choose but you'll always be inaccurate.
 
M

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
PokerGuy said:
A study that says they believe 4% of those on death row to be innocent doesn't actually prove that any innocent people were executed.

As I said, I don't doubt that it could happen (and that it probably has), but the closest I see to a real conclusive case of execution of an innocent on that list goes back to 1863. Other cases are listed where there is reason to doubt that the person was guilty, but there isn't proof that they were in fact innocent.
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It really depends on the level of proof you're demanding here. As someone else has already pointed out, once a person is executed, there's very little effort made to continue to try to exonerate the deceased. Time and resources are just too limited. After all, there's no coming back from the dead. Advocates want to focus on the living.
 
M

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
frowertr said:
Bingo! I don't want the rehab the fuckers. I want them to hang until dead.
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I'm not a big fan of rehab myself, because the evidence for isn't that great. Still, a life sentence without the possibility of parole protects the rest of society from that person ever roaming free again.
 
Atreus21

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Mursilis said:
I'm not a big fan of rehab myself, because the evidence for isn't that great. Still, a life sentence without the possibility of parole protects the rest of society from that person ever roaming free again.
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Maybe it protects society at society's expense, yes.

Meanwhile the person who did this gets to keep his or her life. That's not just, if you ask me.

Whoever did this didn't just commit murder. They calculated to inflict maximum suffering for its own sake on the victim. Killing the victim was insufficient: the killer wanted to make it hurt as much as possible. For me, that's a game-changer. This person should not be allowed to live except as a travesty of justice. Society has suffered enough without suffering one more second of this animal's breath.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,896
7,918
136
GarfieldtheCat said:
What do you propose to do about people that were falsely convicted?
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That's my only problem with this case. It sounds like the evidence would be light, if they ever catch those responsible. While I want an execution, any uncertainty would require a stay of hand.
 
Zaap

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
I'd be in favor of -from this point forward- making the death penalty only applicable in cases where solid DNA evidence was used to convict.

In this case, it sure wouldn't bother me to see whomever is convicted fry.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,896
7,918
136
Zaap said:
I'd be in favor of -from this point forward- making the death penalty only applicable in cases where solid DNA evidence was used to convict.

In this case, it sure wouldn't bother me to see whomever is convicted fry.
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More than 4% chance it's an innocent person.
 
P

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Mursilis said:
It really depends on the level of proof you're demanding here. As someone else has already pointed out, once a person is executed, there's very little effort made to continue to try to exonerate the deceased. Time and resources are just too limited. After all, there's no coming back from the dead. Advocates want to focus on the living.
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I get that, but I would have expected groups that oppose the death penalty to have invested a lot of resources / effort to be able to find that one "smoking gun" case where they can show the world how an innocent man was executed.

I certainly don't have 100% faith in the legal system, which makes me somewhat weary of the death penalty, but there are certain cases where anything short of the death penalty just isn't enough.
 
Subyman

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
IMO prison and such aren't about punishment. They are about keeping those that do harm to others away from society. Its more about protecting us rather than punishing them. When society starts to get a thrill or pleasure off of executions and laying down a harsh "punishment" then its time to start reexamining who we are and what we are trying to protect.

They need to find the people that did this and get them out of society. Right now they are out there and may do it again. We need to be more focused on protecting the next potential victim than getting pumped up for a dirty execution.

IMO the old kings had a nice way of doing it (they also did executions.) Exile. Get out of my country and if you come back, you die. Obviously we can't do that now... unless we make crime island!
 
alzan

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,860
2
0
Atreus21 said:
Maybe it protects society at society's expense, yes.

Meanwhile the person who did this gets to keep his or her life. That's not just, if you ask me.

Whoever did this didn't just commit murder. They calculated to inflict maximum suffering for its own sake on the victim. Killing the victim was insufficient: the killer wanted to make it hurt as much as possible. For me, that's a game-changer. This person should not be allowed to live except as a travesty of justice. Society has suffered enough without suffering one more second of this animal's breath.
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If "eye for an eye" justice is what you're looking for there are quite a few countries in the ME that practice that type of justice. As pointed out to another poster we don't have a justice system in this country, we have a legal system.

Now, if you want revenge for this girl's horrific death, that's on you.

I guess in your eyes, two wrongs make a right.
 
V

Victorian Gray

Lifer
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
z1ggy said:
That's probably because the death penalty consists of relaxing little nap before you slowly fade to death. That's the death people receive even though they may have viciously murdered and tortured people many years in the past. Yeah, that'll really prevent the crazies from killing more.

In all honestly, truly nutty folks will always kill people no matter what the consequences were. But in today's PC world filled with uppity soccer moms, we will never see public hangings or other more "extreme" methods of killing people on death row, to try and deter others from doing the same.
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Because it does nothing but provide public spectacle.
 
V

Victorian Gray

Lifer
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
SlickSnake said:
Well, I wouldn't do it myself, but the punishment would seem just in this case. And many, many others. Sorry to burst your liberal bubbles about that, all you violent criminal loving liberal airheads out there.

And don't you think a severe punishment like that when they get convicted would be a significant deterrent even to a half crazy subhuman animal who is thinking about a violent, murderous crime beforehand?

Of course it would be.
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Than show us the stats to back that claim up.
 
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