yes, Arigo: Surgeon of the Rusty Knife. His work was documented by video cameras and photographs. 35 years after his death there is still no accepted explanation for how he worked but the proof remains. The book is very interesting. It's no longer in print but used copies can be found on Amazon. The book contains many photographs and documented reports from medical doctors that flew from the USA to Brazil to investigate Arigo.
Good point, but that being said, it's also true that just because Science isn't willing to accept that something does happen for a given reason, doesn't mean it doesn't. I'll explain.
How do miracles happen? Simple. Even the very elements themselves obey God's will. How did Jesus cure people? He simply told the elements involved to stop what they were doing and to start working properly, and they did.
Is science willing to accept that? No, at least not that I'm aware of (in general, of course). Does that mean it's not really the way it is? Nope.
Science is a great and wonderful thing. I use it everyday. But to me, there comes a point in time where you have to throw aside what you can explain and admit to yourself that you simply don't understand everything. And even if you did understand everything, even if you did accept that Christ did do everything exactly how I said he did, how did he do it? Why do the very elements obey his command?
I love questions.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
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Originally posted by: CKent
I can't believe things like this even come up on a tech board. Do you all live in the middle of Kansas or something?
That is a very stupid thing to say. There are people from all over the world on this message board who are different religions, nationailities, etc.
People on an OFF TOPIC message board (even if it is on a techie site) still will have beliefs that could be *GASP* different than yours.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
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No, but I do believe in the placebo effect.
So if a sick person receives ineffective treatment (from sugar pill to faith healing), and they believe in that treatment, then it may end up being effective. How the placebo effect works is not fully understood, but it is known that all medical treatment works by stimulating and facillitating the patient's immune system so that they can heal themselves. It is also known that a patient who does not have confidence in otherwise effective treatment generally does not get better (or takes much longer to get better). Therefore, it does make sense that a patient who has confidence in otherwise ineffective treatments can get better. In fact, in medical trials, a key factor in figuring an effective treatment is whether or not it is more effective than a placebo (and it is factored in that the placebo will be effective in some patients).
So there ya go. Faith healing can be a placebo, and thus possibly effective treatment, to those people who believe in it. Personally though, I'd go see a doctor. But even a doctor will tell you that your chances of getting better with recognized medical treatment are significantly better if you maintain a positive attitude.
So if a sick person receives ineffective treatment (from sugar pill to faith healing), and they believe in that treatment, then it may end up being effective. How the placebo effect works is not fully understood, but it is known that all medical treatment works by stimulating and facillitating the patient's immune system so that they can heal themselves. It is also known that a patient who does not have confidence in otherwise effective treatment generally does not get better (or takes much longer to get better). Therefore, it does make sense that a patient who has confidence in otherwise ineffective treatments can get better. In fact, in medical trials, a key factor in figuring an effective treatment is whether or not it is more effective than a placebo (and it is factored in that the placebo will be effective in some patients).
So there ya go. Faith healing can be a placebo, and thus possibly effective treatment, to those people who believe in it. Personally though, I'd go see a doctor. But even a doctor will tell you that your chances of getting better with recognized medical treatment are significantly better if you maintain a positive attitude.
Cut the bullsh!t, I live in 2006 CE, not 12BCE. I've read plenty of bible passages to be satisfied. Most of it is fictional story telling to convey a point, little different from mythology from other civilizations such as the Greeks.
I doesn?t matter to me whether or not the bible is 100% true or 100% false (or anywhere in between), I can recognize the good it is trying to do, but the over-the-top crap you people try to pull is just too much.
I believe in a higher power simply because our universe is just too damn elegant and beautiful. I don?t need to justify my faith on ridiculous claims of miracles, because I can see true miracles for what they really are - radio active decay, red mixing with yellow to produce orange, laughter from a baby. People aren?t magically healed by God; any ?success? is most likely placebo effect.
I don?t need to have faith that God will save me from pain or suffering, because true faith is faith that your life is already saved through trust in life and that of which is beyond. Doctors cannot save your life, they can only extend it. In the same sense God cannot save your life, but God can save your soul. You don?t need a bible to realize this, nor do you need to be Christian to realize it.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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A recent study conducted by Baylor University determined that only 10.8% of Americans, or ~32.4 million people, are completely non-religious. The other 267.6 million Americans are religious in some form and to some extent.Originally posted by: LolaWiz
Originally posted by: CKent
I can't believe things like this even come up on a tech board. Do you all live in the middle of Kansas or something?
That is a very stupid thing to say. There are people from all over the world on this message board who are different religions, nationailities, etc.
People on an OFF TOPIC message board (even if it is on a techie site) still will have beliefs that could be *GASP* different than yours.
Other studies have shown that roughly 95% of the world's population, or 6.175 billion people, are religious and/or believe in a higher power.
As an agnostic, I don't consider myself to be necessarily religious, but IMO the strong atheist's claim on rationality and superiority is a crock-of-sh!t at best. To claim to be able to discount, with complete knowledge, something that can neither be proven nor disproven, is a more extreme example of faith than even the most devout of religiously faithful.
I believe in both the placebo effect and miracle/faith healing, but not in the sense of "Devil...Be gone!" (ala the simpsons). I think they're actually interconnected.
I've been a part of some incredible things. It's funny too, because whenever I hear of other people telling the same stories (such as our own reverend here) about the deaf girl at his church or whatever, I just roll my eyes and think "yeah right" "I HAVE THE POWAH!".
I've been a part of some incredible things. It's funny too, because whenever I hear of other people telling the same stories (such as our own reverend here) about the deaf girl at his church or whatever, I just roll my eyes and think "yeah right" "I HAVE THE POWAH!".
yes, i believe. i also believe in the tooth fairy, santa claus, and that ronald reagan was a good president.
Originally posted by: Vic
A recent study conducted by Baylor University determined that only 10.8% of Americans, or ~32.4 million people, are completely non-religious. The other 267.6 million Americans are religious in some form and to some extent.Originally posted by: LolaWiz
Originally posted by: CKent
I can't believe things like this even come up on a tech board. Do you all live in the middle of Kansas or something?
That is a very stupid thing to say. There are people from all over the world on this message board who are different religions, nationailities, etc.
People on an OFF TOPIC message board (even if it is on a techie site) still will have beliefs that could be *GASP* different than yours.
Other studies have shown that roughly 95% of the world's population, or 6.175 billion people, are religious and/or believe in a higher power.
As an agnostic, I don't consider myself to be necessarily religious, but IMO the strong atheist's claim on rationality and superiority is a crock-of-sh!t at best. To claim to be able to discount, with complete knowledge, something that can neither be proven nor disproven, is a more extreme example of faith than even the most devout of religiously faithful.
agreed. Agnostics (like Thomas) tend to be the most logical.
CKent
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2005
- 9,020
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: LolaWiz
Originally posted by: CKent
I can't believe things like this even come up on a tech board. Do you all live in the middle of Kansas or something?
That is a very stupid thing to say. There are people from all over the world on this message board who are different religions, nationailities, etc.
People on an OFF TOPIC message board (even if it is on a techie site) still will have beliefs that could be *GASP* different than yours.
Bit of a difference between having religious beliefs and thinking Reverend JoBob Jethro can heal what doctors can't for a fee
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Yes thanks for recomending it to me. I didn't read all of it, just a little bit of it actualy. it is sad that he died. I need to probably read all of it. It is such an interesting thing.
Perry
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