Minimum Wage = Totalitarianism, Fascism & Conformism?

[Newell Steamer]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/03/koch-brothers-recording_n_5757592.html

The audio is total shit.

And any other search on Richard Fink + his comments led to sites that would give you Righties the plague itself,.. so, you'll just have to settle for the sniffles with Arianna.

His statements were not offhand remarks, but rather should be seen as representative of the Kochs, as he was hailed as their “grand strategist” by emcee Kevin Gentry in the proceedings and sits on the boards of several of their organizations.

Now, we are not talking about an increase to minimum wage, but minimum wage itself - see below

“Psychology shows that is the main recruiting ground for totalitarianism, for fascism, for conformism, when people feel like they’re victims,” said Fink. “So the big danger of minimum wage isn’t the fact that some people are being paid more than their value-added -- that’s not great. It’s not that it’s hard to stay in business -- that’s not great, either. But it’s the 500,000 people that will not have a job because of minimum wage.”

OH! DANGER! ALARMS!! SENSATIONALISM!!! DEFECTIVENESS!!!shift+1!!!!

Wait, isn't HE playing the part of the victim, by 'warning' people over the dangers of minimum wage??

Anyway, let us be honest here and please give me some peace of mind:
1) Increases of minimum wage - argue away. Ben Wolcott's analysis indicates it is a good thing (you know, actual job creation occuring, not just talk about it). I have not seen any analytical work showing danger of any sorts - I could be wrong, which is why I am making the point to argue away. And, if we all agree to increase it; great. If we all agree to leave it as is; OK.

2) Getting rid of minimum wage - I say no. But, hey, if the majority of the American people want that - again - OK,... provided that the move to actually do that is based on cold hard facts that prove it is bad and it needs to be removed. And on that note,.. onto #3,..

3) Now, on this point, again, help me out here. Help me understand why a right wing conservative would be perfectly correct to claim that minimum wage is fascist,...

He continued, “We’re taking these 500,000 people that would’ve had a job, and putting them unemployed, making dependence part of government programs, and destroying their opportunity for earned success. And so we see this is a very big part of recruitment in Germany in the '20s.”

“If you look at the Third -- the rise and fall of the Third Reich, you can see that,” Fink said. “And what happens is a fascist comes in and offers them an opportunity, finds the victim -- Jews or the West -- and offers them meaning for their life, OK?”

Fink cited the historical examples of Nazi Germany and communist Russia and China to segue to terrorism. “This is not just in Germany. It's in Russia, in Lenin, and Stalin Russia, and then Mao,” said Fink. “This is the recruitment ground for fascism, and it's not just historical. It's what goes on today in the -- in the suicide bomber recruitment.”

Please, explain to me how these types of comments are coming from a person who does not have a defective alarmist brain. How these comments are perfectly acceptable - because they are correct. How these comments are not false - how they represent what is actually occurring,.. or, will indeed occur. That they aren't made by someone who has not only overestimated something that may be dangerous, but that it actually isn't.

Also, here is the transcript of the speech itself; http://ladylibertine.net/2014/09/02/road/ (it's a blog, that claims it is not on any side of the political spectrum,..)

And, as a bonus, here are some pretty successful companies that are doing just fine and are paying over min wage; http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/02/3p-weekend-10-companies-pay-living-wage/ - they are paying the min wage, then some AND are doing pretty fantastic.

 

[Smoblikat]

I dont think minimum wage is a bad thing, if we didnt have it I dont think I would try to vote it in, but since we have it I dont really see a problem with it at its current level.

 

[michal1980]

 

[nehalem256]

So right-winger says that unemployment leads to unrest, which leads to unemployed joining radical groups such as Nazis, communists, and terrorist organizations.

Are you saying that is untrue?

 

[Greenman]

It's early, my brain isn't working yet, but it appears you've invoked the Koch brothers. I'll be damned if I'll drag Adolf out this early in the morning.

 

[xBiffx]

I'd have to ask, if companies are doing fine paying over minimum wage, as you say in the OP then what point is having a minimum wage? Those companies are ignoring it anyways.

Do you honestly think that getting rid of minimum wage means people are going to have to work for $1/hour?

It would also stand to reason that if a certain group of people rely on government decisions to determine their standard of living then they are leaning towards a bit of totalitarianism aren't they?

 

[shira]

So right-winger says that unemployment leads to unrest, which leads to unemployed joining radical groups such as Nazis, communists, and terrorist organizations.

Are you saying that is untrue?

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that raising the minimum wage will lead to 500,000 more unemployed, and then he makes the further claim that those 500,000 more unemployed will lead to the proliferation of radical groups. Which obviously is BS. Because if Fink is correct and an increase of only 500,000 in unemployment will cause a significant increase of U.S. "radicalization," then how come we didn't see HUGE "radicalization" in 2009/2010, when the number of unemployed was MILLIONS greater than it is now?

 

[nehalem256]

That's not what he's saying. He's saying that raising the minimum wage will lead to 500,000 more unemployed, and then he makes the further claim that those 500,000 more unemployed will lead to the proliferation of radical groups. Which obviously is BS. Because if Fink is correct and an increase of only 500,000 in unemployment will cause a significant increase of U.S. "radicalization," then how come we didn't see HUGE "radicalization" in 2009/2010, when the number of unemployed was MILLIONS greater than it is now?

Umm, aren't liberals always saying we did? Teahadists?^_^

 

[Anarchist420]

The min wage is a price control on labor.

The most obvious effects are on net taxpayers. the DOL technically is fascist and conformist because of all the threats to take people to the labor board, the fact that it picks winners and losers, and the fact that some people are forced to pay for it. Think about how much it enriches lawyers and how much the State has to spend on its own workers. Legislating min wage (or even the threat of it) means that some people will do things they wouldnt otherwise do and those closest to the top benefit the most.

And utility arguments are inferior to ethical arguments partly due to the fact that no one can see many possibilities without seeing what wont happen. That is, people who are really logical will either be more inductive than deductive or more deductive than inductive. I prefer people who reason mostly through inductive logic because they independently do more for society (look at spiderman's inductive ass vs batman's deductive ass) and those who reason primarily inductively politely laugh off the bad stuff. The State doesnt reason because it is an irrational agent. It cant care more about the future than it cares about dominating people for what they did in the past.

EDIT: Ideally, the Federal min wage would be repealed, but it would be good if as many total exemptions as possible would be good. Some exemptions could be those who are a certain age, those who are disabled, smaller businesses, and working for your parents' business. Dominick Armentano wrote about it.

 

[shira]

Umm, aren't liberals always saying we did? Teahadists?^_^

The Tea Party isn't composed of the unemployed masses, dumbass. Or have you forgotten that the Tea Party rails against the "52% who pay no taxes?"

Unless your argument is that the Tea Party is railing against themselves, dumbass.

 

[nehalem256]

The Tea Party isn't composed of the unemployed masses, dumbass. Or have you forgotten that the Tea Party rails against the "52% who pay no taxes?"

Unless your argument is that the Tea Party is railing against themselves, dumbass.

When Tom Grimes lost his job as a financial consultant 15 months ago, he called his congressman, a Democrat, for help getting government health care.

Then he found a new full-time occupation: Tea Party activist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html?pagewanted=all

^_^

Or you could refer to Occupy Wall Street. Pretty sure they weren't employed(employable?)

 

[Newell Steamer]

Do you honestly think that getting rid of minimum wage means people are going to have to work for $1/hour?

Certainly not.

But, I think it would be more on par with what salaries are being paid for illegal migrant labor.

 

[glenn1]

OP, hopefully it's rhetorical exaggeration for effect, and he's a crackpot. I do believe that there is some non-zero number of people who don't have jobs due to minimum wage or lose them when it's raised, but that's a legitimate policy question about tradeoffs. My focus is generally going to be on helping people maximize their skills and incentivizing the "good employee habits" mindset that will maximize their value proposition to an employer rather than just what the minimum wage should be. But I realize that for some potential employees that's moot and will never be able to go beyond menial work, so the pay issue shouldn't be ignored either.

 

[nehalem256]

Certainly not.

But, I think it would be more on par with what salaries are being paid for illegal migrant labor.

Probably because they would then be competing with said illegal migrant labor ^_^

 

[shira]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html?pagewanted=all

^_^

Or you could refer to Occupy Wall Street. Pretty sure they weren't employed(employable?)

So you're claiming that the Tea Party is in fact a group consisting of unemployed Republicans?

Edit: Looks like you're mistaken - http://www.irehr.org/the-report/app...-unemployment-levels-and-tea-party-membership

IREHR analysis of Tea Party online membership and unemployment data demonstrates that there is very little if any relationship between unemployment and Tea Party membership.

 

[xBiffx]

Certainly not.

But, I think it would be more on par with what salaries are being paid for illegal migrant labor.

Why would you think that? First of all, the illegal worker isn't paid on the books, so no one gets to see how much they get screwed for the work they do. I think you need to rethink comparing illegal migrant workers to minimum wage earners.

 

[Atreus21]

 

[Newell Steamer]

Why would you think that? First of all, the illegal worker isn't paid on the books, so no one gets to see how much they get screwed for the work they do. I think you need to rethink comparing illegal migrant workers to minimum wage earners.

So, remove the min wage, and all businesses will give more or no worse than minimum wage? I doubt that.

With no insight or government involvement, we know what happens - the illegal migrant worker situation - which by it's very nature has not government involvement.

So, yes, the two compare. Or, are you telling me that Fink and his crew will start handing out $50k a year jobs, once Uncle Sam removes the min wage??

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Drama queen.

 

[Oldgamer]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/03/koch-brothers-recording_n_5757592.html

The audio is total shit.

And any other search on Richard Fink + his comments led to sites that would give you Righties the plague itself,.. so, you'll just have to settle for the sniffles with Arianna.



Now, we are not talking about an increase to minimum wage, but minimum wage itself - see below


OH! DANGER! ALARMS!! SENSATIONALISM!!! DEFECTIVENESS!!!shift+1!!!!

Wait, isn't HE playing the part of the victim, by 'warning' people over the dangers of minimum wage??

Anyway, let us be honest here and please give me some peace of mind:
1) Increases of minimum wage - argue away. Ben Wolcott's analysis indicates it is a good thing (you know, actual job creation occuring, not just talk about it). I have not seen any analytical work showing danger of any sorts - I could be wrong, which is why I am making the point to argue away. And, if we all agree to increase it; great. If we all agree to leave it as is; OK.

2) Getting rid of minimum wage - I say no. But, hey, if the majority of the American people want that - again - OK,... provided that the move to actually do that is based on cold hard facts that prove it is bad and it needs to be removed. And on that note,.. onto #3,..

3) Now, on this point, again, help me out here. Help me understand why a right wing conservative would be perfectly correct to claim that minimum wage is fascist,...


Please, explain to me how these types of comments are coming from a person who does not have a defective alarmist brain. How these comments are perfectly acceptable - because they are correct. How these comments are not false - how they represent what is actually occurring,.. or, will indeed occur. That they aren't made by someone who has not only overestimated something that may be dangerous, but that it actually isn't.

Also, here is the transcript of the speech itself; http://ladylibertine.net/2014/09/02/road/ (it's a blog, that claims it is not on any side of the political spectrum,..)

And, as a bonus, here are some pretty successful companies that are doing just fine and are paying over min wage; http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/02/3p-weekend-10-companies-pay-living-wage/ - they are paying the min wage, then some AND are doing pretty fantastic.

Yea, total utter BS and he is trying to say that anyone who is a liberal or a democrat is a fascist.

Again you have the wealthy elite trying to spread lies, misinformation and convince the working class that demanding better wages are somehow fascist. /rollseyes..

 

[Jhhnn]

Yea, total utter BS and he is trying to say that anyone who is a liberal or a democrat is a fascist.

Again you have the wealthy elite trying to spread lies, misinformation and convince the working class that demanding better wages are somehow fascist. /rollseyes..

And buying off politicians as fast as they can.

It's a nice circle for them. Convince people to elect politicians who follow the axiom that money talks, because they're the ones with the money. Wash, rinse, repeat, hoping nobody notices that it was their ideology & their leadership who led us to where we are today.

 

[nehalem256]

So, remove the min wage, and all businesses will give more or no worse than minimum wage? I doubt that.

Why do most businesses pay more than minimum wage now?

With no insight or government involvement, we know what happens - the illegal migrant worker situation - which by it's very nature has not government involvement.

So businesses that hire illegal workers also pay illegal wages

 

[Newell Steamer]

Wash, rinse, repeat, hoping nobody notices that it was their ideology & their leadership who led us to where we are today.

And, even if somebody does notice, the usual tactics are broken out; character assassination, downplaying, dismissive eye rolls, etc. and,.. even accusations of 'Hating America' or being a terrorists or a lizard person.

EDIT: Some other tactics: perpetuating lies about women raping boys and the courts forcing them to pay child support - as well as posting links to studies, thinking they support their points and when they realize they didn't read jack shit about the link, they flip out and start cursing up storm,.. getting called out must hurt soooo bad.

 

[inachu]

I forgot where I read it from but ever since minimum wage was started and that if it truly kept up with taxes/inflation that minimum wage would have hit near $30 an hour.

I could be wrong but just gotta find that link/URL......

 

[Victorian Gray]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28teaparty.html?pagewanted=all

^_^

Or you could refer to Occupy Wall Street. Pretty sure they weren't employed(employable?)

Surveys indicate over 50% were employed full time with another 20% holding part time jobs. 28 percent of those employed apparently made over $50,000/year. 33% were over the age of 35 as well.