Question Mini-itx for 5600G

[balloonshark]

I just bought a Cooler Master NR200 case and need a mini-itx motherboard for a 5600G APU. I don't want to spend a fortune since the AM4 socket's days are numbered. I do want to sensibly overclock the 5600g gpu and maybe the cpu itself as well as my 2x8GB DDR4 3200 RAM. I may even OC a dGPU if I decide to go that way as I'm undecided on what to do with my 7970, R9 fury and RX 6600. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

P.S. How many watts would a PSU need for system with an overclocked 5600G and RX6600 combo?

Edit: Am I right in thinking there isn't much sense getting anything higher than a B450 since the 5600G is Pcie 3.0? Any advantage in getting something better?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I would not go lower than a quality 650W personally. This Seasonic is a great deal -https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-foc...x-650w/p/N82E16817151192?Item=N82E16817151192 Might be better deals, did not look because I am not in the market for PSUs right now.

I am using the $100 ASRock Fata1ty B450 Gaming-ITX A/C from Amazon with my 5600g. But I would not recommend it for ram overclocking. Vega overclocking is fine, but I got better ram speeds with the same kit and the 5600g on a B450 Tomahawk. And while the VRMs are fine on temps, I am running the APU stock speed, as the stealth cooler is the only one I have that would fit in the case I am using. That means it would get really noisy if the vcore were upped, so not doing that. I think it could handle a 88w package power APU and some overclocking though.

Of note: The warehouse here in my area that shipped my board, sent it with the latest August 2021 bios. Which was a nice surprise, not having to flash it then swap CPUs. There is no guarantee any particular ITX board will support the 5600G OOB though. If the board does not have a version of bios flashback, you will need an older CPU to get it flashed. Likely a non issue if buying from a high volume vendor, but still good to know.

I picked the Fatal1ty because any performance differences on a better board were not going to be anywhere close to justifying the markup over $100 for my use. I have also had good experiences with the Fatal1t y AM4 boards in the past, for Ryzen 3 and 5. The ASRock B550M-ITX/AC is on backorder at Newegg for $130, and the other one with a price I would consider. With the caveat that if it was my only system I might spring for a $170-200ish board.

Hopefully someone spotted a hot deal on a different board and will chime in.

 

[kschendel]

Edit: Am I right in thinking there isn't much sense getting anything higher than a B450 since the 5600G is Pcie 3.0? Any advantage in getting something better?

I don't think it's that simple. First, 5600G support is likely to be slow or lacking on some B450's. Second, and perhaps more importantly, you gnerally get more I/O ports available on a B550 than you do a B450. Granted, total effective simultaneous throughput via the chipset is still limited to 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. Thirdly, the B550 VRM's seem to be better in general than the B450's.

I think I'd stick with B550, or if you want to save just a few pennies, one of the A520's (which appear to be much better than the A320's were).

By the way, if you have any dGPU better than a 1030 around, I'm not real sure why you would want to run an APU?

 

[balloonshark]

That is a great deal on that power supply! I should have mentioned this but the case takes a SFX or SFX-L PSU with a 130mm clearance. You can purchase or make a 3d printed bracket for the case to accept a ATX PSU but I don't know what that means in terms of losing space in such a small case. I'm guessing that the smaller PSU's have shorter cables but I could be wrong. https://www.coolermaster.com/us/en-us/catalog/cases/accessories/atx-psu-bracket-nr200/#!

A SFX PSU is 100mm long (in-depth), 125mm wide, 63mm tall {100mm (L) × 125 mm (W) × 63mm (H)}.
A SFX-L Power Supply is 30mm longer than a standard SFX Power Supply at 130 (L) x 125 (W) x 63 (H) mm.
A standard ATX/PS2 power supply is 140mm long, 150mm wide and 86mm tall.

Thanks for the info on motherboards. It's kind of rough finding many of these smaller components plus I have no idea how any of them overclock. I do have a 1600AF I haven't sold yet so I could use it to flash the BIOS if needed.

FWIW I did grab one of those Seasonic PSUs since I had a $10 off code to sweeten the deal. Not sure if I want to use full size ATX PSU though but it will be nice to have around. Thanks for sharing the deal

 

[balloonshark]

I don't think it's that simple. First, 5600G support is likely to be slow or lacking on some B450's. Second, and perhaps more importantly, you gnerally get more I/O ports available on a B550 than you do a B450. Granted, total effective simultaneous throughput via the chipset is still limited to 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0. Thirdly, the B550 VRM's seem to be better in general than the B450's.

I think I'd stick with B550, or if you want to save just a few pennies, one of the A520's (which appear to be much better than the A320's were).

By the way, if you have any dGPU better than a 1030 around, I'm not real sure why you would want to run an APU?

Thanks for your suggestions. This build just more or less happened spontaneously. I grabbed a new 5600G on the forums here and saw a decent deal on the case yesterday. This will be my spare computer and I'm kind of wanting something for emulation. I don't know how much GPU horsepower I need but I might like to emulate up to ps3 and xbox games.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Newegg does have the A520 version for only $5 more. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157962

There are a couple of things I like about it. HDMI 2.1 and DP 1.4. if you are like me, it will never run that max res. but the spec is still newer than the B450 has. The M.2 is also on the top side and has a heatsink. On the fatality it is just a slot on the backside. Again, not giving me any trouble, but no heatsink, and not as easy to get to later. Downside v. the Fatality, is the lack of overclocking options, and I don't think Ryzen Master works with the A series boards either.

My bad on the PSU, I was not familiar with your case, and when I took a quick look, saw it supported full length GPUs. I assumed it was the kind that took normal PSUs when I saw that. Looks like a good SFX 650W is $100-$105. https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Superno.../dp/B07JG5M5TW/ref=psdc_1161760_t1_B01CGI5M24

 

[balloonshark]

Any major downsides to the backordered ASRock B550M-ITX/AC AM4 you mentioned earlier? One of the reviews mentioned this. I wonder if he tried plugging in the cables before installing the MB.

Cons: -The power and reset button and power LED are almost impossible to plug if USB 3.0 is plugged. Once the mobo is in the case, and the USB connector is plugged, it is just too tight to reach and plug the remaining cables. I ended up only plugging in power with no LED or reset. -The book manual that comes with the board didnt have all the information I wanted, but I was able to find a proper manual online that showed what I needed. (Not sure what its called, but needed to find a "map" of the mobo to find the aforementioned pins)

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

ASRock B550M-ITX/ac

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 3000, 3000 G-Series, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors<span style=color:red;>*</span><br />Supports DDR4 4733+ (OC)<br />1 PCIe 4.0 x16<br />Graphics Output: DisplayPort, HDMI<br />7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec)<br />4...

www.asrock.com

No worries on the PSU. I should have posted more info about the case instead of assuming everyone knew it was tiny. I've seen some good SFX PSU deals the last couple of months and I can only hope they come around again.

Edit: I have 2x8GB 3200 ram. https://www.gskill.com/product/165/170/1564381714/F4-3200C16D-16GFX

Will it work with the MB and CPU and will it work if I can get a 3600mhz OC on the RAM? I'm not sure what all these numbers mean in the memory section along with the table they include. Under Cezanne the mention 3200 but not 3200(OC) and I don't know what the means.

ASRock B550M-ITX/ac

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 3000, 3000 G-Series, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors<span style=color:red;>*</span><br />Supports DDR4 4733+ (OC)<br />1 PCIe 4.0 x16<br />Graphics Output: DisplayPort, HDMI<br />7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec)<br />4...

www.asrock.com

 

[balloonshark]

Well I just backordered the ASRock B550M-ITX/AC AM4 motherboard. It won't be in stock for about 2 more days. If anyone sees that it won't work or finds a better deal please let me know.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

I am using the $100 ASRock Fata1ty B450 Gaming-ITX A/C from Amazon with my 5600g. But I would not recommend it for ram overclocking. Vega overclocking is fine, but I got better ram speeds with the same kit and the 5600g on a B450 Tomahawk. And while the VRMs are fine on temps, I am running the APU stock speed, as the stealth cooler is the only one I have that would fit in the case I am using.

Sorry to hijack the discussion, but I just built a similar machine in a Chopin case, and I can absolutely confirm what you're saying about temperatures and speed limits. In my case, I'm running the RAM at 3200 and I'll just stick with it. But I love the digital audio output, and the Realtek 1220 codec is so much better than the 887 on most other/cheaper ITX boards. And the CPU itself is a marvel.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Sorry to hijack the discussion, but I just built a similar machine in a Chopin case, and I can absolutely confirm what you're saying about temperatures and speed limits. In my case, I'm running the RAM at 3200 and I'll just stick with it. But I love the digital audio output, and the Realtek 1220 codec is so much better than the 887 on most other/cheaper ITX boards. And the CPU itself is a marvel.

I am using the AMD audio over HDMI through a Onkyo AVR, but yeah, for ITX the board is cheap and effective.

I was ranting early about how many reviewers are out of touch with most of us. Their meh or worse reviews of the 5700/5600g are another prime example. These are great APUs, Vega instead of RDNA or not.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Any major downsides to the backordered ASRock B550M-ITX/AC AM4 you mentioned earlier? One of the reviews mentioned this. I wonder if he tried plugging in the cables before installing the MB.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

ASRock B550M-ITX/ac

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 3000, 3000 G-Series, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors<span style=color:red;>*</span><br />Supports DDR4 4733+ (OC)<br />1 PCIe 4.0 x16<br />Graphics Output: DisplayPort, HDMI<br />7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec)<br />4...

www.asrock.com

No worries on the PSU. I should have posted more info about the case instead of assuming everyone knew it was tiny. I've seen some good SFX PSU deals the last couple of months and I can only hope they come around again.

Edit: I have 2x8GB 3200 ram. https://www.gskill.com/product/165/170/1564381714/F4-3200C16D-16GFX

Will it work with the MB and CPU and will it work if I can get a 3600mhz OC on the RAM? I'm not sure what all these numbers mean in the memory section along with the table they include. Under Cezanne the mention 3200 but not 3200(OC) and I don't know what the means.

ASRock B550M-ITX/ac

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 3000, 3000 G-Series, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors<span style=color:red;>*</span><br />Supports DDR4 4733+ (OC)<br />1 PCIe 4.0 x16<br />Graphics Output: DisplayPort, HDMI<br />7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec)<br />4...

www.asrock.com

Since your ram is on the QVL list for the board, it should run its rated speed easy peasy. I don't know what overclocking options you will have on an A series board, so let us know how that goes.

I don't know what case that complaint was about, but I had no problem connecting power, reset, or LEDs on the Fatal1y. They are standardized and I can do it in a few seconds after so many repetitions over the years. Dude sounds like a n00b to be blunt. If it is tough to connect them after connecting the USB 3.0, do them first then connect it. Duh!

I will be surprised if the board does not ship with a very recent bios. And a 5600g is a great match for that board.

 

[balloonshark]

Since your ram is on the QVL list for the board, it should run its rated speed easy peasy. I don't know what overclocking options you will have on an A series board, so let us know how that goes.

I don't know what case that complaint was about, but I had no problem connecting power, reset, or LEDs on the Fatal1y. They are standardized and I can do it in a few seconds after so many repetitions over the years. Dude sounds like a n00b to be blunt. If it is tough to connect them after connecting the USB 3.0, do them first then connect it. Duh!

I will be surprised if the board does not ship with a very recent bios. And a 5600g is a great match for that board.

One of the reviews in Nov. said there was a Ryzen 5000 support sticker on the box of the ASRock B550M-ITX/AC AM4 and it worked with his 5600G.

When I look at the QVL I don't see my RAM supported. Part number F4-3200C16D-16GFX

ASRock B550M-ITX/ac

Supports AMD AM4 Socket Ryzen™ 3000, 3000 G-Series, 4000 G-Series, 5000 and 5000 G-Series Desktop Processors<span style=color:red;>*</span><br />Supports DDR4 4733+ (OC)<br />1 PCIe 4.0 x16<br />Graphics Output: DisplayPort, HDMI<br />7.1 CH HD Audio (Realtek ALC887/897 Audio Codec)<br />4...

www.asrock.com

Edit: Nevermind. I see the MB listed on the RAM page. Doh!

F4-3200C16D-16GFX - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

QVL (Qualified Vendor List) for F4-3200C16D-16GFX. Find compatible motherboard or hardware for this product.

www.gskill.com

I have a question about overclocking the cpu. When I see people overclock they are overclocking all cores to run at a high speed. They seem to run full speed all the time is this correct or are they running a stress test in the background? Is there a way to only overclock the boost clock speeds to save electric? I'm not interested in overclocking the cpu if the cpu isn't going to throttle down when idle or light use.

I noticed eta prime did a couple of these 5600G builds. He got more FPS in the matx build while the cpu, gpu and ram (he may have been using 4400 ram with no oc) was overclocked and with a normal PSU. He was able to run a couple different games at 1080p where his smaller builds where he only overclocked the gpu and maybe the ram got less FPS. This makes sense and is kind of why I'm going with a relatively larger case and PSU. It's also why I'm wanting to overclock.

 

[Iron Woode]

I would not go lower than a quality 650W personally. This Seasonic is a great deal -https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-foc...x-650w/p/N82E16817151192?Item=N82E16817151192 Might be better deals, did not look because I am not in the market for PSUs right now.

I am using the $100 ASRock Fata1ty B450 Gaming-ITX A/C from Amazon with my 5600g. But I would not recommend it for ram overclocking. Vega overclocking is fine, but I got better ram speeds with the same kit and the 5600g on a B450 Tomahawk. And while the VRMs are fine on temps, I am running the APU stock speed, as the stealth cooler is the only one I have that would fit in the case I am using. That means it would get really noisy if the vcore were upped, so not doing that. I think it could handle a 88w package power APU and some overclocking though.

Of note: The warehouse here in my area that shipped my board, sent it with the latest August 2021 bios. Which was a nice surprise, not having to flash it then swap CPUs. There is no guarantee any particular ITX board will support the 5600G OOB though. If the board does not have a version of bios flashback, you will need an older CPU to get it flashed. Likely a non issue if buying from a high volume vendor, but still good to know.

I picked the Fatal1ty because any performance differences on a better board were not going to be anywhere close to justifying the markup over $100 for my use. I have also had good experiences with the Fatal1t y AM4 boards in the past, for Ryzen 3 and 5. The ASRock B550M-ITX/AC is on backorder at Newegg for $130, and the other one with a price I would consider. With the caveat that if it was my only system I might spring for a $170-200ish board.

Hopefully someone spotted a hot deal on a different board and will chime in.

I bought that MB back in the spring of 2019. My BIOS was version 1.30 but I had an R3 2200G for it. I upgraded to a 5600G and 16 GB corsair LPX DDR4 3600 after flashing to the newest BIOS v 4.60.

The PSU is a Corsair TX 550M.

The best part of this board is the connectivity. I also love the realtek ALC 1220 audio. It has Creative Sound Blaster Cinema 5 which is awesome.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I have a question about overclocking the cpu. When I see people overclock they are overclocking all cores to run at a high speed. They seem to run full speed all the time is this correct or are they running a stress test in the background? Is there a way to only overclock the boost clock speeds to save electric? I'm not interested in overclocking the cpu if the cpu isn't going to throttle down when idle or light use.

I noticed eta prime did a couple of these 5600G builds. He got more FPS in the matx build while the cpu, gpu and ram (he may have been using 4400 ram with no oc) was overclocked and with a normal PSU. He was able to run a couple different games at 1080p where his smaller builds where he only overclocked the gpu and maybe the ram got less FPS. This makes sense and is kind of why I'm going with a relatively larger case and PSU. It's also why I'm wanting to overclock.

For overclocking I am using the one click overclocking feature included with the Radeon software suite. You get all of the benefits of power saving features, but it can increase the boost clock significantly. When I had the 5600g in the Tomahawk it boosted to 4.65GHz. A 250MHz OC with zero effort is pretty sweet. Ryzen Master works for everything too.

The all core all the time overclock does nothing for me personally. Vega is what's bottlenecking, CPU is plenty fast. It is snappy and crushes daily driver stuff.

I think I will see what happens in this little case with the stealth cooler. I don't think it will do well with the extra vcore under load, but only one way to find out.

 

[balloonshark]

For overclocking I am using the one click overclocking feature included with the Radeon software suite. You get all of the benefits of power saving features, but it can increase the boost clock significantly. When I had the 5600g in the Tomahawk it boosted to 4.65GHz. A 250MHz OC with zero effort is pretty sweet. Ryzen Master works for everything too.

The all core all the time overclock does nothing for me personally. Vega is what's bottlenecking, CPU is plenty fast. It is snappy and crushes daily driver stuff.

I think I will see what happens in this little case with the stealth cooler. I don't think it will do well with the extra vcore under load, but only one way to find out.

Thanks for the tips. I just want to get what OC I can without going crazy. Easy is good. At a certain point you're just making a lot of heat for little gain with a lot of effort.

What case are you using with your 5600G?

The NR200 case arrived today. I've only built in atx mid towers so this is going to be a challenge. Let's hope I can find a sfx PSU on sale soon.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

What case are you using with your 5600G?

I have no idea. I got it in a trade here, and I don't see any identifying marks, stamps, or stickers. It is old school, and a little smaller in dimension than my xbox 360 slim. It also has a laptop DVD drive, and uses a FSP 150W flex psu. Makes it a bit of a sleeper build I guess. I hate to see old hardware become e-waste so I do my best to salvage it, or sell it to someone else who will appreciate it.

I want to put it in one of those Xbox series X style cases. That would look pretty cool. Or I may put it in the xbox slim case when the 360 gives up the ghost.

 

[balloonshark]

Is this MB worth the extra money? The deal ends today. https://www.newegg.com/asrock-b550-phantom-gaming-itx-ax/p/N82E16813157949

Comparison of the 3: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare?CompareItemList=13-157-949,13-157-954,13-157-844

Edit: I went ahead and grabbed the phantom. For $20 more it should have better ocing, better wifi and audio among other things.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Edit: I went ahead and grabbed the phantom. For $20 more it should have better ocing, better wifi and audio among other things.

If you can use the features, then well worth it. E.G. none of those would have been worth the 50 percent mark up over the B450, for my use case.

Post back with how the overclocking goes.

 

[balloonshark]

According to the sticker on my motherboard it's running an older BIOS and I don't think either of the processors (5600G and 1600 AF) I have will work to update the BIOS. Asrock support said this:

"We can flash the bios for you for free, if you want you can send in the MB for bios update.

Or you may contact the AMD for the older CPU (boot kit) Let us know if you decide send in the MB for us and we can give you more information.

IF you have any video card PCIE, you may insert on the MB to get screen display and flash the bios with your 5600G on it.

Your old CPU 1600 will not work, not able to flash the bios."

Is it true that I can use the 5600G CPU and a dGPU like my 7970, R9 Fury or RX 6600 for display to update the BIOS? If this is true then why wouldn't the 1600 AF with dGPU work?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Before you waste time and effort on trying to get a CPU, test it. You will not damage anything if unsuccessful. Do a barebones on the box = quick and easy. The supporting bios is from March, I have trouble accepting that board has been gathering dust that long. As I noted, my ASRock B450 shipped with the latest bios.

 

[balloonshark]

Before you waste time and effort on trying to get a CPU, test it. You will not damage anything if unsuccessful. Do a barebones on the box = quick and easy. The supporting bios is from March, I have trouble accepting that board has been gathering dust that long. As I noted, my ASRock B450 shipped with the latest bios.

Thanks. I should've mentioned my bios sticker said 1.20 which is pretty darn old. I'll give it a go on the box though. I just didnt figure it would boot with an unsupported cpu.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Thanks. I should've mentioned my bios sticker said 1.20 which is pretty darn old. I'll give it a go on the box though. I just didnt figure it would boot with an unsupported cpu.

With how the pandemic has nerfed the entire process, I would not be at all surprised, should that sticker being on the box, turn out to be an oversight by overworked and under paid employees. Only one way to find out.

 

[kschendel]

Is it true that I can use the 5600G CPU and a dGPU like my 7970, R9 Fury or RX 6600 for display to update the BIOS? If this is true then why wouldn't the 1600 AF with dGPU work?

The B550's weren't originally intended to support Zen 1 or Zen+. I don't know if that is a BIOS thing or if it's due to not having PCIe 4.0 out of the CPU, or some of each. Either way, given that your board has an older BIOS, you're out of luck as far as the 1600AF goes. I'd give the dGPU a try, given that you have some lying around.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The B550's weren't originally intended to support Zen 1 or Zen+. I don't know if that is a BIOS thing or if it's due to not having PCIe 4.0 out of the CPU, or some of each. Either way, given that your board has an older BIOS, you're out of luck as far as the 1600AF goes. I'd give the dGPU a try, given that you have some lying around.

It is definitely not a PCIe issues since the 5000 APUs are PCIe 3.0. I have a Asus X570 that supports back to Zen+. And the ASRock Fata1ty B450 Gaming-ITX A/C supports every AM4 CPU made. Makes me think it is forced obsolescence or cost cutting?

 

[kschendel]

The X570 claimed to support older CPU's from the outset. B550 and A520 did not, IIRC. Anyway, I suspect that you are correct that it's simply a lack of support in the BIOS. Most likely a product marketing decision that happened to save some money and time up front as well.