mini gaming machines

you2

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I know there is a thread for NUC and equivalent; and the first couple of rounds were interesting @ 4x4; the latest offering while flat is quite a bit larger.
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However, for the size of a mac mini (2x8x8); you can now get reasonable modern gaming machines. Here is a link to one that I discovered:
https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/magnus-en980-plus-1#spec
(this one is actually 8x9x4 probably due to the gtx 980; but they have a new 1060 based model and I think they have or are working on a 1070 model that are thinner).
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Not cheap but cheaper than a nuc with external enclosed gpu.
 

JWade

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Oct 9, 1999
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www.heatware.com
you can get an alienware alpha first gen with an i3, 4gb ram, 500gb drive on delloutlet for under $300 now. they have the 2nd gen on there too. I have the first gen with an i5, 8gb ram and 240gb ssd, plays everything I throw at it on a 1080i TV
 

JWade

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www.heatware.com
the R2 version with the I5 and 960 is $559

Alienware Alpha R2
  • Processor: Intel Core 6th Generation i5-6400T Processor (Quad Core, up to 2.80 GHz, 6M Cache, 35W)
  • Windows 10 Home 64bit English
  • 500 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
  • 8GB (1x8G) 2133MHz DDR4 Memory Non ECC
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960 4GB GDDR5
  • Dell Outlet Alienware Alpha R2
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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I know there is a thread for NUC and equivalent; and the first couple of rounds were interesting @ 4x4; the latest offering while flat is quite a bit larger.
-
However, for the size of a mac mini (2x8x8); you can now get reasonable modern gaming machines. Here is a link to one that I discovered:
https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/magnus-en980-plus-1#spec
(this one is actually 8x9x4 probably due to the gtx 980; but they have a new 1060 based model and I think they have or are working on a 1070 model that are thinner).
-
Not cheap but cheaper than a nuc with external enclosed gpu.

I have some good news for you! The new Zotacs are on pre-order for significantly cheaper than the EN980 model...the EN1060 is $1000 & the EN1070 is two hundred more at $1200:

https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-Skylake-i5-6400T-GeForce-ZBOX-EN1060-U/dp/B01M27HA48/

https://www.amazon.com/ZOTAC-Skylake-i5-6400T-Graphics-ZBOX-EN1070-U/dp/B01M3062Z5/

User manuals:

https://www.zotac.com/download/mediadrivers/mb/man/pb333EN1060.pdf

https://www.zotac.com/download/mediadrivers/mb/man/pb333EN1070.pdf

You will need 3 things:

1. OS
2. Boot drive
3. RAM

Windows 10 Home 64-bit is $93 shipped:

https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Home-System-Builder/dp/B00ZSI7Y3U/

If you want to max it out, Crucial has a 32-gig RAM kit for $144 shipped:

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-16GBx2-PC4-17000-SODIMM-260-Pin/dp/B015YPB8ME/

You have the option of a 2.5" 9.5mm SATA drive or an M.2 drive, so you can go SSD or HDD or a combination if you want a boot & data drive. I'm curious if you could fit a 15mm drive in there, since you can buy a 4TB 2.5" SATA drive for around $140 these days, which is pretty insane storage for the size. The existing 950 Pro NVMe drives are pretty awesome as well, although if you can hold off for a couple weeks, the 3,500 Mbps 960 Pro's will be out (512gb @ $330, 1TB @ $630, 2TB @ $1300). Samsung also has a 4TB 2.5" SATA SSD available (for around $1600).

But to be reasonable: EN1070 for $1200, Windows 10 for $93, 32 gigs of RAM for $144, and a 512gb NVMe SSD for $330 (although my 500-gig SSD has quickly filled up with Steam VR games on my existing rig...). For $1767, you get a pretty dang sick computer in a very compact size. The only catch I see is the CPU...I wish it was an i7, but all you get is a Skylake (not Kaby) laptop chip with 4 cores, no hyperthreading. At least you get turbo tho...the chip is 2.2ghz base, with a 2.8ghz turbo. Reasonable tradeoff for the size, although I'd be willing to pay more for an i7, and even more for a mobile i7 with hyperthreading. And I have installed a couple BRIX that have a "real" CPU (albeit with noisy cooling due to the ultra-compact size), so I'm curious to see if they'll offer some kind of enhanced CPU option in the future.

Or you could go budget: $1k for the EN1060, $84 for 16 gigs of RAM, $93 for Windows 10, and $185 for a 500gb EVO 850 2.5" SSD. That's $1362 shipped.

imo these boxes are the "next step" in compact computing, thanks to NVIDIA's 1000-series GPU's. 4K support, quad monitor support, compact form factor, all kinds of good stuff. And technically, the CPU supports 64 gigs of RAM, so down the road, I'll have to try that out when they become available. This is great for gaming, for VR, for HTPC usage, for homelab, and even for DCC & CAD. Pretty much every CAD program I've used for the last several years do great on the newer gaming PC's, which typically saves a bundle for building engineering machines.

The future is here! (almost!)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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One thing I should note is the lack of cost effectiveness vs. an equivalent laptop. For example, this MSI is on my list:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834154348

* $1700
* Windows 10
* i7-6700HQ (2.6ghz Skylake with 3.5ghz turbo & hyperthreading)
* 16 gigs of RAM (I'd imagine this is upgradable to 32 gigs)
* 1080p 15.6" IPS LED monitor
* Built-in battery backup (i.e. the laptop battery)
* 256gb M.2 SSD
* 1TB 7200rpm HDD
* Keyboard & touchpad included

Compare that to the $1767 config above for the EN1070, which has a 512gb NVMe SSD & 32 gigs of RAM. Granted, the Zotac has quad-monitor output, but the MSI has the built-in monitor, plus support for dual monitor output (HDMI & MiniDP) for a max of 3 monitors at one time (4K output is availabe & the HDMI can do 4K@60hz). The laptop gives you a free screen, keyboard, trackpad, battery backup, and backup drive, completely integrated, whereas Zotac gives you a compact little box, which is also really cool. Decisions, decisions.
 
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you2

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Mixed. It is a mobile 1070 I think (which is not quite as fast as a regular 1070). It is the size of a max mini (8x8x2.5); as you said for approx $1600. If I were to build a mini itx it would be at best would be around 14x14x4 (raven case); total cost would be approx:
sfx psu $100
1070 $400
cpu regular i5 $200
ddr4 memory 16GB $70
mb (depends on model) $150
disk (lots of options - prefer ssd) $300
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~1200 (linux is free)
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So adjusting your price to match disk/ram/os $1600 for a savings of 6x6 on width/height. and probably 30% faster. Am curious how the 1070 in the zotac box performs against a real 1070; also a bit concern about the heat in the box (gigabyte pro iris boxes for example run 80c under load with an i5; my mini-itx with 1070 @ home runs at max load 65c with a 4.4 ghz i7. Yea the gigabyte is a nice formfactor 4x4x2.5 but 80c is baking the ssd (which gets close to 50c)
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Mixed. It is a mobile 1070 I think (which is not quite as fast as a regular 1070). It is the size of a max mini (8x8x2.5); as you said for approx $1600. If I were to build a mini itx it would be at best would be around 14x14x4 (raven case); total cost would be approx:
sfx psu $100
1070 $400
cpu regular i5 $200
ddr4 memory 16GB $70
mb (depends on model) $150
disk (lots of options - prefer ssd) $300
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~1200 (linux is free)
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So adjusting your price to match disk/ram/os $1600 for a savings of 6x6 on width/height. and probably 30% faster. Am curious how the 1070 in the zotac box performs against a real 1070; also a bit concern about the heat in the box (gigabyte pro iris boxes for example run 80c under load with an i5; my mini-itx with 1070 @ home runs at max load 65c with a 4.4 ghz i7. Yea the gigabyte is a nice formfactor 4x4x2.5 but 80c is baking the ssd (which gets close to 50c)

Yeah, so many great hardware options are available now, plus the cost-savings by going with Linux. And you're right about heat, which is probably why they didn't put an i7 (even a mobile i7) in the new Zotac box.
 

you2

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Apr 2, 2002
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Hum the 1080 version is almost the same size as the 1070 (1 inch taller - probably for the cooler).
 

Face2Face

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Jun 6, 2001
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you can get an alienware alpha first gen with an i3, 4gb ram, 500gb drive on delloutlet for under $300 now. they have the 2nd gen on there too. I have the first gen with an i5, 8gb ram and 240gb ssd, plays everything I throw at it on a 1080i TV

Same, but I only have the Core i3 with a 480 GB SSD. Still does well at 1080p, from games to Rocket League to GTA V. Surprisingly capable little box, and I have it mounted behind my wallmounted TV, so you don't even know it's there.
 

you2

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Apr 2, 2002
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It is the gpu that makes these expensive (and zotac tends to be a litlte more expensive than msi).
 

KeithP

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Jun 15, 2000
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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please report on heat/speed of 1070 :)

Will do! Any particular tests you want me to run? It will have Win10, although I'm going to try to finagle Win7 on it.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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well for heat you could run intel extreme test - i can dig out the link if you don't have it. for graphics you could run 3dmark. I might actually get one if it runs cooler than the gigabyte iris pro brix. That thing is baking my ssd.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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well for heat you could run intel extreme test - i can dig out the link if you don't have it. for graphics you could run 3dmark. I might actually get one if it runs cooler than the gigabyte iris pro brix. That thing is baking my ssd.

Yeah, some of the BRIX get pretty toasty. Before the i7 gaming unit, I put in several of the green Gigabytes & they were pretty noisy and warm...I am hoping that the Zotacs do better because I'd prefer having (1) a cooler-running system for longevity & less noise for the user, (2) the GTX1070 chip for quad monitor output, and (3) an alternative brand to Gigabyte, as their latest mini "tower" offering is kinda...weird. And the GPU is already old! (ish)
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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My first EN1070 showed up! For starters, a size comparison pic between an i5 IRIS BRIX & the Razer Core:

fTroGfE.jpg


It's about the size of one of those large Harry Potter hardback books, plus about half again as wide. Closest thing I can think to compare it to is one of those tins that dry cookies come in (the ones that always have sewing stuff in them at your grandma's house, lol). It's a bit bigger than the Dell 7040, but in the same size class. The PSU is about the size of the red i5 IRIS BRIX's unit...maybe 7" x 3" or so, pretty large, but not nearly as large as like a Sager's PSU. But it's a good 1/6 the size of the entire Zotac unit.

Whine time, the plastic seems kind of cheap...not KIRF-cheap, but kinda cheap. For starters, there is a glossy front faceplate (note: the plastic protective cover was very hard to remove, couldn't get my nails under the lip to pull it! lol); mine protudes a bit & you can feel it on your finger...it's flush on the left but sticking out on the right. It's not super thin plastic for the case, but kind of thing...has some flex if you press down on it. iirc the Dell 7040 has either a metal underbody or really thick, heavy-duty plastic that feels much more substantial under finger pressure. The matte plastic also looks kind of cheap, especially around the sides...you can see little manufacturing defects here & there like impressions or little tiny shavings & stuff. It's minor tho, not a big deal at all, just an FYI on the plastic quality. The BRIX feel like they are in a whole different class of fit & finish, but the Zotac doesn't feel as cheap as the ultra-budget PC cases I've used...just like they used cheap plastic to assemble a nice design.

Whoever designed it is a genius. There are two thumb screws on the back; you remove those, slide off the bottom plate, and have access to everything you need to install. Two memory slots, an M.2 slot, and a 2.5" SATA cage. Genius. Excellent, excellent design. Even easier to build than a NUC! (by two screws...lol) I wish the thumb screws were captive screws so you wouldn't risk losing them, but oh well. The SATA cage is also weird...plastic & mounted a bit weird, has like a single thumb screw that kind of clips it down into place. Would have preferred like a cage with a rubbery skeleton for the mechanical drive. Not a biggie since it's not a laptop that's moving around, tho. Unfortunately I don't have any 15mm 2.5" drives handy to test right now, but iirc it does officially support 7mm & 9.5mm drives. Also, I wish there was more than one USB port on the front, that's annoying. It does have a USB-C 3.1 whatever port next to it, but that's not as common as having a couple standard ports up front for things like USB sticks & whatnot.

Initial configuration on my test machine is Win10 Pro, 32gb RAM, and a 512gb 950 Pro. This would make an amazing homelab machine, especially since the upcoming 960 Pro's are also available in 1TB & 2TB sizes, although it's a bit limited with a mobile Skylake i5 (no hyperthreading, which iirc gives about a 25% overall boost to the chip's performance). Going to give Win7 a try after I finish my initial testing. Win10 installed via USB without a hiccup. Normal operation is 40 to 60 watts; around 42 installing Windows, 50 in normal operation, 60 downloading a bunch of stuff. Prime95 (CPU test @ 100% per core) pegged the wattage at 63. Furmark (latest update, 1.18.2.0 with support for the GTX1000 series of GPU's) doubled that. Highest I was able to go was around 153 watts with the GPU at max. Although when I ran the CPU at max in conjunction with GPU testing, it dropped down to 120 watts...not sure if there's some additional thermal or power throttling going on, or what. Furmark kept maxing out the NVIDIA power limiting policy, which kept the GTX1070 at 65C (149F) max, very nice feature. GPU core clock hovered around 900 (like maybe 850 to 920) rather than the upper 1442mhz base clock limit when the heat was on. Never felt like the computer was going to melt (unlike the first-gen Intel Compute sticks, like the one I have from Lemel

Most interesting was the noise. Under normal operation...zero. Just completely silent. Even with the CPU maxed out. It wasn't until I ramped up the GPU that the fan came on audibly...but not in a bad way. The fan is interesting. It's not annoying like on the BRIX Gaming series. It's not soothing background noise either, like a large 120mm fan on a desktop. It's more like an A/C unit working in another room, like a distant fan noise sound. Not bad at all. Very muted. I would not object to having this on my desk in a quiet room because the noise isn't really distracting. Very impressive! Also interesting, the heat blows out through the left side, so be sure to keep that side clear for airflow.

Overall? Awesome. $1200 plus RAM/SSD/OS nets you a ridiculously powerful & compact computer. Easily hit 1,000 Mbps on the NVMe in HD Tune (512gb 950 Pro, need to play with drivers to see if I can get higher). 32 gigs of RAM (the CPU officially supports 64 gigs, so if I can ever get my hands on a SODIMM kit like that, I'll have to give it a shot!) & an 8GB GTX1070 is killer. Only hitch is the mobile i5...which actually handled everything I threw at it just fine, but if you're a specs person, you'll be a bit sad that there's no hyperthreading or i7 sticker on it. However, the EN1080 model has been announced, which is an insane water-cooled mini computer with dual power supplies, and apparently sports a desktop i7-6700, which is a 3.4ghz Skylake with a 4ghz turbo & hyperthreading. No word on price yet tho (the current water-cooled EN980 is $1,370, so one can only hope that this stays at least under $1,500...), but they do have the product page up:

https://www.zotac.com/product/mini_pcs/magnus-en1080-10-year-anniversary-edition

Love me some mini computers!
 
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you2

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Two quick questions; how warm did the ssd and cpu get under full load and how large is the psu ?

I really don't think the 1080 version is worth it (cost/size). The 1070 is pretty border line but it is still easy to carry when traveling. At some point it just makes more sense to build a mini-itx.