Millionaires want to be taxed

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PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Think about this. Salary is a pre-tax expense to companies. Thus, it benefits a company to pay the CEO more since it lowers the tax bill for corporate taxes. Since the CEO's tax rate tops out at 35%, the same as the corporate tax rate, there is only benefit to pay the CEO the money. However, if the CEO were to get taxed higher than the corporate tax rate, there is actually no incentive. This is one of the biggest reasons why CEO wages have outstripped worker wages on a multiples basis for the last 3 decades (as the top marginal tax rate declines) and is a huge reason for wealth disparity.

By that argument, wouldn't it benefit the company more to pay the money to it's employees? Why single out the CEO? You say if the tax rate were higher, there would be less incentive for the company to pay the CEO... but since the workers are already taxed in lower brackets, wouldn't it make more sense (for the company) to pay them more, instead of the CEO? (Of course ignoring who is deciding pay outs)
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
So sayeth themselves:

"Patriotic millionaires" call for their tax cuts to expire
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joe_conason/2010/11/18/millionaires/index.html





See, here is the problem with these, probably progressive, millionaires...

If they feel are so eager to pay their fair share, they already have the avenue to do so, they already have every opportunity to do so. There is nothing stopping these guys from doing what they say they want to do, except for their own free will

see: http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

Something sounds fishy about this whole "stunt" as I will call it. Almost sounds like, well, would our favorite progressive poster agree, propaganda? From a favorite site?

Or maybe they come from the middle class and don't want to see it destroyed for tax cuts they don't need.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,728
29
86
America: "Keynesianism... LOL"


China: "Keynesianism...

LOL-ROFL_Mao.gif
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
0
So then there's nothing hypocritical at all about Tea Party members claiming tax credits that they protest?

There's nothing hypocritical at all with campaigning for earmark reform while you continue to be one of the largest earmark sponsors?

Nothing hypocritical at all if you think offshore banking should be banned, while you continue to maintain an account in the Cayman Islands?

I think swearing on online forums should be banned, so that conversations are much more civil. But unless everyone is forced to do it, there's no fucking point. Nothing wrong with that, right?

If you're playing under the current rules, does that mean you think the rules are good?

Individual's best course of action doesn't necessarily translate to collective best action - it's a game theory problem. As a generally-rational agent, I will ultimately do what benefits me the most. As a society though we need to have a tax framework that maximizes the collective benefit, because individuals best courses of action won't aggregate to that.
 
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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
Lets flip it around.

If so many tea party/conservatives/republicans are against the earned income credit, why do they keep claiming it on their taxes?

I don't fit into any of those groups and I can't speak for anyone else but I have been against a ton of the .gov spending because I have a calculator and understand basic math.

With that said, if the train is going to come off the tracks regardless of what I do then fuck it, I am gonna enjoy the ride while I can.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
By that argument, wouldn't it benefit the company more to pay the money to it's employees? Why single out the CEO? You say if the tax rate were higher, there would be less incentive for the company to pay the CEO... but since the workers are already taxed in lower brackets, wouldn't it make more sense (for the company) to pay them more, instead of the CEO? (Of course ignoring who is deciding pay outs)

Why would the company pay the employees more when the company's (management) only interest is preserving their own wealth because they get taxed lower?

Since compensation is set by the board and the board is composed to cronies, cross linking, or stock analyst/portfolio manager buddies, all of whom are rich and hire lobbyists to tax rich less, the only interest is in increasing the wealthy's wealth more.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I kno they are so patriotic that they actually think their government works.

As opposed to the Republicans who think their government sucks.

Funny thing is, they're both right - progressives think their progressive government works, and conservatives think their right-wing government doesn't.

In fact, right-wing government *sets out* to not work, with things like putting people in charge of agencies who are tasked to make them not work.

There's an excellent book laying this out, "The Wrecking Crew" by Frank Rich. I'd buy someone on the right a copy if they promised to read it and report back.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
It's amazing how many people post the idiocy of 'if you think a tax should be higher, you cap pay it yourself and leave everyone else's lower'.

It shows how they're clueless about how society, taxes, government work.

Why don't we abandon our current system, where politicians are incented to keep taxes as low as possible to win elections, altogether and move to what these idiots are really saying they want, where everyone has all their taxes completely voluntary. If you go to the store, sales tax is optional. If you pay income tax, it's optional. If you buy gasoline, gas tax is optional.

Then those who want to pay can pay, and those who don't, don't, and we fund all the programs people want from the 0.1% remaining revenue.

After all, why should the average person have their taxes be mandatory, but the rich are the only ones who face no mandatory taxes, just 'pay it if you want'?
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Again I'll say it. The Tea party is so against the Earned Income Credit for having a child, yet they all keep claiming that credit on their taxes... why is that? Some of them are on unemployment yet are so against giving government money away to people not working, why is that?

That's a fundamentally flawed argument. Until the rules change, I play by the current ones just like everyone else. That doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate changing them.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Lets flip it around.

If so many tea party/conservatives/republicans are against the earned income credit, why do they keep claiming it on their taxes?

This is how we are lied too, it's nothing new. It's the do as I say not as I do approach.

People want others to pay for the tax cuts they recieve.

Fuck, I know some serious advocates against the HAMP programs that they themselves are taking advanatage of to the limits (rate and principle reductions and extensions on repayment).

I did a simple rate modification to the current interest rate at the time, took no principle reduction nor extended my term. My house is worth 30% of my loan amount and they are saying I am cheating the government....I didn't get any government money.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
This is how we are lied too, it's nothing new. It's the do as I say not as I do approach.

People want others to pay for the tax cuts they recieve.

Fuck, I know some serious advocates against the HAMP programs that they themselves are taking advanatage of to the limits (rate and principle reductions and extensions on repayment).

I did a simple rate modification to the current interest rate at the time, took no principle reduction nor extended my term. My house is worth 30% of my loan amount and they are saying I am cheating the government....I didn't get any government money.

Advocating a change of the rules while continuing to follow the existing rules is in no way hypocritical. Advocating, for example, that Social Security be changed such that COL increases are based on a different inflation metric in order to solve the broad SS solvency problem doesn't mean you're a hypocrite if you continue to accept your full SS check computed based on the current metric until the rules actually change.

Hypocrisy means advocating that OTHERS behave a certain way while you continue to behave the old way.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
So sayeth themselves:

"Patriotic millionaires" call for their tax cuts to expire
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joe_conason/2010/11/18/millionaires/index.html





See, here is the problem with these, probably progressive, millionaires...

If they feel are so eager to pay their fair share, they already have the avenue to do so, they already have every opportunity to do so. There is nothing stopping these guys from doing what they say they want to do, except for their own free will

see: http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

Something sounds fishy about this whole "stunt" as I will call it. Almost sounds like, well, would our favorite progressive poster agree, propaganda? From a favorite site?

nothing stopping them from donating it to the national debt fund themselves.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy" :)

Patriotic Rich Guy: :biggrin:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People: :(

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Have a good day!" :whiste:
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy" :)

Patriotic Rich Guy: :biggrin:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People: :(

Patriotic Rich Guy: :whiste:


In case you missed it on the last page...


Four questions for you.

1. How much do you make?

2. Can you prove that lower taxes to the rich produces any economic benefits?

3. Can you prove that this country's infrastructure, including all ability for those rich people to make money, wasn't built upon historically higher marginal tax rates?

4. Can you prove that those same rich people would have made the same amount of money in a country that didn't have that infrastructure, say, Somalia.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy" :)

Patriotic Rich Guy: :biggrin:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People: :(

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Have a good day!" :whiste:

9/10
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
In case you missed it on the last page...


Four questions for you.

1. How much do you make?

2. Can you prove that lower taxes to the rich produces any economic benefits?

3. Can you prove that this country's infrastructure, including all ability for those rich people to make money, wasn't built upon historically higher marginal tax rates?

4. Can you prove that those same rich people would have made the same amount of money in a country that didn't have that infrastructure, say, Somalia.

I answered your questions a few pages ago LK.
I'm sorta just joking anyway :)
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy" :)

Patriotic Rich Guy: :biggrin:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People: :(

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Have a good day!" :whiste:

This x the national debt.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy" :)

Patriotic Rich Guy: :biggrin:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People: :(

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Have a good day!" :whiste:

Awesome. You win this thread.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy" :)

Patriotic Rich Guy: :biggrin:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People: :(

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Have a good day!" :whiste:

American People in 1939: "Ah crap this Hitler guy is going out of control, he needs to be stopped!"

Patriotic guy: "Great! I'd love to help!"

American People in 1939: "Great! So you will personally go today all by yourself with a rifle and invade Europe?"

Patriotic guy: "No, I'll wait until we can act collectively as a society, because individual action on a problem of this scale would be mind bogglingly stupid. Not only would it have a high cost for me, but it would yield next to no benefit to society. I'll wait until we coordinate through government action on this one."

American People in 1939: "That makes perfect sense, because what was just suggested was an incredibly dumb and dishonest debating point made by people who should know better."
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
American People in 1939: "Ah crap this Hitler guy is going out of control, he needs to be stopped!"

Patriotic guy: "Great! I'd love to help!"

American People in 1939: "Great! So you will personally go today all by yourself with a rifle and invade Europe?"

Patriotic guy: "No, I'll wait until we can act collectively as a society, because individual action on a problem of this scale would be mind bogglingly stupid. Not only would it have a high cost for me, but it would yield next to no benefit to society. I'll wait until we coordinate through government action on this one."

American People in 1939: "That makes perfect sense, because what was just suggested was an incredibly dumb and dishonest debating point made by people who should know better."

And for the win!
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
The overwhelmingly vast majority of US Earners are not millionaires... ergo, any taxation revenue garnered from the millionaire is pittance compared to the revenue from the rest of the earning citizenry...
What makes sense is to insure there are a plethora or earning capacity amongst the entire population... Jobs!
Institute a program to provide massive earning capacity to the US Earner and all the issues will be solved in the US... The rest of the world will be a bit ticked off since such a program will not be in their best interests but it will sort our issues out... I personally don't much care if folks don't have a high standard of living in India when we've folks here starving.

Seems to me it is an issue where we need considering our citizens first and let the world deal with their citizens as they may...
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
matt0611 said:
American People: "Excuse me sir, the debt is spiraling out of control, will you help? help us pay down the debt?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "I'd love to help! As a matter of fact I think all rich guys should be required to help you!"

American People: "Yayy"

Patriotic Rich Guy:

American People: "So you'll help? You'll give money today?"

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Oh no, I won't give money until its required by me by law"

American People:

Patriotic Rich Guy: "Have a good day!"
9/10

Yes, I agree, nine-tenths. Amazing. It's pretty tough to score below a 1.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
American People in 1939: "Ah crap this Hitler guy is going out of control, he needs to be stopped!"

Patriotic guy: "Great! I'd love to help!"

American People in 1939: "Great! So you will personally go today all by yourself with a rifle and invade Europe?"

Patriotic guy: "No, I'll wait until we can act collectively as a society, because individual action on a problem of this scale would be mind bogglingly stupid. Not only would it have a high cost for me, but it would yield next to no benefit to society. I'll wait until we coordinate through government action on this one."

American People in 1939: "That makes perfect sense, because what was just suggested was an incredibly dumb and dishonest debating point made by people who should know better."

LOL. How did I know someone would bring up Hitler? It always happens.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
LOL. How did I know someone would bring up Hitler? It always happens.
LOL. How did I know that a right-wing troll would pretend to not understand a completely valid point? It always happens.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
LOL. How did I know someone would bring up Hitler? It always happens.

You could insert any of hundreds of names in place of his... but his name is probably the most infamous in recent times... Idi Amin Dada, President for Life, would have been my choice, however.