Millennials discover the reality of liberal government

[Incorruptible]

Liberalism is the only thing allowing you to post from your Mom's basement instead of working for your own keep or getting drafted to serve in foreign wars. Or maybe not so foreign, fighting the annexation of former Canadian and Mexican territories.

So you have no arguments because you're full of crap and you make up lies, Typical liberal.

 

[Subyman]

FWIW, some people graduating and staying with their parents are pretty smart. Save that rent to place a large down payment on a house in a few years. Families tend to stay together longer in other countries. Kicking a child out at 18 and having them pay 30-40% of their check on an apartment when there is a free room down the street seems ignorant.

 

[MagickMan]

What's the point? In thread after thread after thread, you consistently ignore factual posts that contradict your faith-based opinions. You've done it in this thread already, ignoring the posts factually contradicting your op-ed (NOT an article, by the way). Instead, you whine about ad hominem attacks, never acknowledging your own accountability due to your behavior.

What factual posts? On the whole, if you remove all the OP and source attacks, the Left have almost nothing to say around here. :hmm:

 

[DominionSeraph]

Ad hominem.

Another Ad hominem.

Aww, did someone learn a new word? Unfortunately it seems your education was a little deficient as you apparently don't know what it means.

A comment/opinion of someone's argument is not a direct rebuttal.

Texashiker: "Here we see a dog being starved to death. This is Obama's fault, therefore Obama is bad."
Everyone: "You're a fucking moron and a worthless individual."

This is not argumentum ad hominem. It's not being used as disproof, it simply follows from what has been presented.


What you have presented is basically the panel on the right:

... but with "college tuition costs" inserted. You have followed that with, "Obama is liberal, therefore this is the liberals' fault." Pretty sad that you've been programmed into blaming Obama so much that you don't even know what liberalism and conservatism are anymore.

Have primary school costs risen in line with college tuition costs? No. So socialized schooling isn't seeing this problem. It's your beloved conservative free market that's allowing colleges to charge whatever the market will bear.
You're complaining that the system is too conservative and asking for a liberal solution and you don't even know it.

 

[MongGrel]

Got me, I was booted out of the nest at 18, joined the Marines and learned to take care of myself in 1980, and have been pretty much independent ever since.

I was even working in high school prior to that and had to pay for my own car and insurance etc at the time, though dad paid for clothes food housing medical etc.

 

[MongGrel]

Aww, did someone learn a new word? Unfortunately it seems your education was a little deficient as you apparently don't know what it means.

A comment/opinion of someone's argument is not a direct rebuttal.

Texashiker: "Here we see a dog being starved to death. This is Obama's fault, therefore Obama is bad."
Everyone: "You're a fucking moron and a worthless individual."

This is not argumentum ad hominem. It's not being used as disproof, it simply follows from what you have presented.


What you have presented is basically the panel on the right:

... but with "college tuition costs" inserted. You have followed that with, "Obama is liberal, therefore this is the liberals' fault." Pretty sad that you've been programmed into blaming Obama so much that you don't even know what liberalism and conservatism are anymore.

Have primary school costs risen in line with college tuition costs? No. So socialized schooling isn't seeing this problem. It's your beloved conservative free market that's allowing colleges to charge whatever the market will bear.
You're complaining that the system is too conservative and you don't even know it.

+1

Really cute kitten BTW, he he.

 

[MongGrel]

Took this one last nite of our little found in the field Flame Pointer Miracle cat the local Vet still is amazed lived, he was a little thing at the time and she found him in a field and had problems so bad at the time the Vet asked if he wanted to put him down.

The Vet calls him the miracle cat.

The wife recovered him, and he's 16 lbs now he he, and an interesting guy.

Sorry I guess a bit off topic.

 

[werepossum]

Uhh... Doesn't it mean exactly that?

Right, middle, and left are all positional descriptors, talking about positions in relation to everyone else. i.e. you can't be "left" you have to be to "the left of that shelf." So as a result there can be many issues that are to the left of your own view, but are actually center or even to the right of others.

Andy, Bob, Charlie, Dave, and Edward are all in a row. Dave is to the left of Edwards, but compared to the row of 5 he's right of center.

And Shadow is ten blocks to the left of Andy, Bob, Charlie, Dave, and Edward, squealing about how he is the center and everyone else is far right wing.

Uhmm, his argument is basing his view of ideology precisely using the entire world.

It's true that US Democrats would be considered center-right in most other developed countries. We tend to lose sight of that here because the Republican Party would be considered an ultra right party in those same countries.

As far as taxation and redistribution, yes, most of the Western world is far to our left. Not so much on social issues. Liberal England for example just had its first gay marriages ever. Ireland has actually denied visas for fear that pregnant girls will have an abortion in another nation. Denmark has a list of approved names for new-borns. Virtually all other Western nations have far stricter laws on illegal immigrants compared to ours. And that's if you count only Western nations, not nations like Russia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. To get the view that America is a far-right nation compared to the rest of the world requires dishonestly cherry-picking nations and aspects of nations and declaring that only those aspects are worthy of comparison.

America has always been consciously, intentionally different. The right insists that is why the USA became the world's lone superpower. The left insists that the US is backward and therefore becoming the world's lone superpower was a mere happy accident in spite of that difference. Might be worth pointing out that as we adopt more and more of the left wing agenda, we also lose more and more of our position as the world's lone superpower.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Unfortunately I strongly suspect their views have not evolved at all. What has happened is that the hope and change for which they voted - free rent, free health care, free broadband and smart phone, free education for as long as they can stand to be in school - came with a big albeit in part deferred price tag, for even with a supermajority the Democrats dared not make that kind of societal transformation. The productive people simply would not stand for it, and the Democrat politicians want to be reelected and hopefully promoted. If I am correct, then millennials as a group disapprove of Obama for not being Bernies Sanders leading a pack of Bernies Sanders who will all face reelection in Vermont or San Francilly and the Republicans are even farther out. True, they must grow up eventually, but as that age is being pushed ever outward I see no bright side for the right. Some millennials already understand responsibility and some will grow to understand responsibility, but the longer one is allowed to enjoy the benefits of adulthood without the responsibilities of adulthood, the more likely one is to demand that be the reality for life.

Funny, I don't recall anyone promising free rent, free broadband, free post secondary education, free smart phones, free health care, and whatever else you seem to think was promised, to anyone let alone millennials specifically.

Where/when and by who were these things promised?

 

[werepossum]

Funny, I don't recall anyone promising free rent, free broadband, free post secondary education, free smart phones, free health care, and whatever else you seem to think was promised, to anyone let alone millennials specifically.

Where/when and by who were these things promised?

These things were not promised. Instead, Obama and the left talked about how rent is unaffordable, college is unaffordable, health care is unaffordable, etc. followed by promises of a fundamental transformation of America. That fundamental transformation and its limits and particulars were never explicitly spelled out, so people were free to imagine what fundamental transformation they wished and attribute it to Obama. Thus you have so many people insisting that they would no longer have to worry about paying their rent or would get free health care or college tuition. That is the hope and change for which they voted; it is not what was explicitly promised or even necessarily what Obama intended. The whole point of making vague political promises is to allow people to imagine what they want as what you want. For example, when the Republicans promise to support traditional American values they do not usually spell out specifics, since different people envision different traditional American values and encroachments on same.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Might be worth pointing out that as we adopt more and more of the left wing agenda, we also lose more and more of our position as the world's lone superpower.

LOL, what? You know the human body isn't getting any stronger, right? And you know you can't get any deader than dead, right? Industrialization allows for construction of more efficient ways to destroy the human body, so unless you have a plan for preventing anyone else from advancing, you're not going to be able to stop them gaining additional power to deal death.
We can already kill every person on Earth, so we can't get any more "super" in extent of killing. Do you think liberalism is to blame for the fact we don't have an antimatter weapon that can blow up the entire Earth? What the hell is the point?

And none of this has anything to do with conservatism. A slave economy beneath local theocracies isn't even close to what we've been advancing under.
Science.
Workers' rights.
Secularism.

 

[werepossum]

LOL, what? You know the human body isn't getting any stronger, right? And you know you can't get any deader than dead, right? Industrialization allows for construction of more efficient ways to destroy the human body, so unless you have a plan for preventing anyone else from advancing, you're not going to be able to stop them gaining additional power to deal death.
We can already kill every person on Earth, so we can't get any more "super" in extent of killing. Do you think liberalism is to blame for the fact we don't have an antimatter weapon that can blow up the entire Earth? What the hell is the point?

And none of this has anything to do with conservatism. A slave economy beneath local theocracies isn't even close to what we've been advancing under.
Science.
Workers' rights.
Secularism.

Being able to destroy the world has little to do with being a superpower as it's inherently self-limiting. North Korea or Pakistan with 5,000 nuclear ICBMs would not be a superpower simply because it would have no practical way to project power unless it were the only nuclear power. Threatening to nuke someone has little effect once they have the power to render your nation uninhabitable, which is why post-World War II nuclear weapons have been relevant only as counters to threats of aggression, not in projecting power.

 

[OverVolt]

FWIW, some people graduating and staying with their parents are pretty smart. Save that rent to place a large down payment on a house in a few years. Families tend to stay together longer in other countries. Kicking a child out at 18 and having them pay 30-40% of their check on an apartment when there is a free room down the street seems ignorant.

You'll realize later that its stupid. When millennials start realizing they waited too long to have kids 5-10 years from now. Just a little longer to finish my phd since I couldn't get a job with a bacherlors, just a little longer to pay off my loans, just a little longer to save up for a house. Bam, you're 35 and can't have kids.

Even on TV they have what, 50 year olds marrying and having kids. Its so far from reality.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/tips/why-you-should-wait-to-have-children

vs

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ger_to_have_kids_a_feminist_triumph_or_a.html

Lets see if your noodle works. If its anything like most people here, it does not. There is a certain reality to this narrative biologically. ....And go.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Being able to destroy the world has little to do with being a superpower as it's inherently self-limiting. North Korea or Pakistan with 5,000 nuclear ICBMs would not be a superpower simply because it would have no practical way to project power unless it were the only nuclear power. Threatening to nuke someone has little effect once they have the power to render your nation uninhabitable, which is why post-World War II nuclear weapons have been relevant only as counters to threats of aggression, not in projecting power.

Projection of conventional power is limited to countries that don't have nukes, or to circumstances so limited that they won't employ them. And remember, under the conservative free market nukes and all conventional weapons should be open for sale by any corporation that wants to build them, so I'm wondering what you're complaining about.

 

[Matt1970]

Uhmm, his argument is basing his view of ideology precisely using the entire world.

It's true that US Democrats would be considered center-right in most other developed countries. We tend to lose sight of that here because the Republican Party would be considered an ultra right party in those same countries.

Even if true, who gives gives a rat's ass? It just happens to be all those "right of center" policies that made our nation as great as it is. I could give two shits less if everything we do would be considered right wing by say Cuba, or Canada, or any nation for that matter. You can spend all the time you want keeping track of what other nations consider us, I have better things to do.

 

[Subyman]

You'll realize later that its stupid. When millennials start realizing they waited too long to have kids 5-10 years from now. Just a little longer to finish my phd since I couldn't get a job with a bacherlors, just a little longer to pay off my loans, just a little longer to save up for a house. Bam, you're 35 and can't have kids.

Even on TV they have what, 50 year olds marrying and having kids. Its so far from reality.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/tips/why-you-should-wait-to-have-children

vs

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ger_to_have_kids_a_feminist_triumph_or_a.html

Lets see if your noodle works. If its anything like most people here, it does not. There is a certain reality to this narrative biologically. ....And go.

Who said anything about 35 year olds? I'm talking about a few years after college which is 23-25. The amount of people going to get a phd because they can't get a job is hilariously small.

 

[Veliko]

As far as taxation and redistribution, yes, most of the Western world is far to our left. Not so much on social issues. Liberal England for example just had its first gay marriages ever. Ireland has actually denied visas for fear that pregnant girls will have an abortion in another nation. Denmark has a list of approved names for new-borns. Virtually all other Western nations have far stricter laws on illegal immigrants compared to ours. And that's if you count only Western nations, not nations like Russia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. To get the view that America is a far-right nation compared to the rest of the world requires dishonestly cherry-picking nations and aspects of nations and declaring that only those aspects are worthy of comparison.

America has always been consciously, intentionally different. The right insists that is why the USA became the world's lone superpower. The left insists that the US is backward and therefore becoming the world's lone superpower was a mere happy accident in spite of that difference. Might be worth pointing out that as we adopt more and more of the left wing agenda, we also lose more and more of our position as the world's lone superpower.

Superpowers come and go, they always have done and they always will.

How does being one benefit the average person within that particular nation? Is your average American better off than your average British/French/German/Australian as a result of that status?

 

[fskimospy]

And Shadow is ten blocks to the left of Andy, Bob, Charlie, Dave, and Edward, squealing about how he is the center and everyone else is far right wing.


As far as taxation and redistribution, yes, most of the Western world is far to our left. Not so much on social issues. Liberal England for example just had its first gay marriages ever. Ireland has actually denied visas for fear that pregnant girls will have an abortion in another nation. Denmark has a list of approved names for new-borns. Virtually all other Western nations have far stricter laws on illegal immigrants compared to ours. And that's if you count only Western nations, not nations like Russia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore. To get the view that America is a far-right nation compared to the rest of the world requires dishonestly cherry-picking nations and aspects of nations and declaring that only those aspects are worthy of comparison.

America has always been consciously, intentionally different. The right insists that is why the USA became the world's lone superpower. The left insists that the US is backward and therefore becoming the world's lone superpower was a mere happy accident in spite of that difference. Might be worth pointing out that as we adopt more and more of the left wing agenda, we also lose more and more of our position as the world's lone superpower.

Generally, civil liberties are not considered left or right as there have been far left authoritarian regimes (Stalin) and far right authoritarian regimes (Franco) Have you ever viewed the political compass or taken that test? There is a reason why it has four directions on it. West/east (left/right) is economic and north/south is authoritarian/libertarian. Even the US is a good example of why civil liberties are poorly explained by left/right. Those on the left want to restrict gun rights while expanding gay rights and those on the right want the opposite. That doesn't make sense if you view civil liberties on a left right scale.

As usual, we have come to a situation where your ignorance has led you to write the above, and any deviation from your delusional world view is attributed to dishonesty and trickery by others instead of any potential failure on your part. (No doubt By the Worldwide Progressive Conspiracy that is undoubtedly editing Wikipedia towards our ends as we speak)

The ending part about America losing its position as the lone global superpower due to the adoption of more left wing economic policies is simply more fact-free rambling, so no, it probably wasn't worth mentioning, haha.

 

[mikeymikec]

Liberalism in America has caused

Riiigh-t

TH, I'm surprised you want to read on after an opener like that, or do you simply like reading the opinion pieces that you agree with?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Start reading, and tell me how many of those principles apply to you, despite you obviously believing that you're not a "liberal".

 

[werepossum]

Projection of conventional power is limited to countries that don't have nukes, or to circumstances so limited that they won't employ them. And remember, under the conservative free market nukes and all conventional weapons should be open for sale by any corporation that wants to build them, so I'm wondering what you're complaining about.

Um, okay . . . Thank you for sharing the Bronie view of reality, I suppose.

Superpowers come and go, they always have done and they always will.

How does being one benefit the average person within that particular nation? Is your average American better off than your average British/French/German/Australian as a result of that status?

America's projection of power has by design benefitted your average British/French/German/Australian as much as your average American. This is true to some degree of European projection of power as well, but to a lesser extent.

Generally, civil liberties are not considered left or right as there have been far left authoritarian regimes (Stalin) and far right authoritarian regimes (Franco) Have you ever viewed the political compass or taken that test? There is a reason why it has four directions on it. West/east (left/right) is economic and north/south is authoritarian/libertarian. Even the US is a good example of why civil liberties are poorly explained by left/right. Those on the left want to restrict gun rights while expanding gay rights and those on the right want the opposite. That doesn't make sense if you view civil liberties on a left right scale.

As usual, we have come to a situation where your ignorance has led you to write the above, and any deviation from your delusional world view is attributed to dishonesty and trickery by others instead of any potential failure on your part. (No doubt By the Worldwide Progressive Conspiracy that is undoubtedly editing Wikipedia towards our ends as we speak)

The ending part about America losing its position as the lone global superpower due to the adoption of more left wing economic policies is simply more fact-free rambling, so no, it probably wasn't worth mentioning, haha.

I'd agree that left and right can restrict civil liberties equally and that as they become more authoritarian become virtually indistinguishable from one another, but attitudes about what is and is not acceptable (i.e. which civil liberties) are above the general permitted level of freedom and coordinate roughly to a left-right axis. As you point out, that is why there are two axes rather than simply one, but that is also why such tests are never definitive, for the left-right axis greatly affects the authoritarian-libertarian axis so that which civil liberties one chooses to emphasize greatly affects a particular entities' placement on the authoritarian-libertarian scale.

And please forgive my ignorance - we cannot all be general experts on literally everything such as your own sublime exceptionalism. Perhaps for the enlightenment of us poor blighted souls you can provide a list of which freedoms are applicable (and thus indicative of America's backwardness, of course) and which are irrelevant. I've no doubt that such a list will demonstrate 100% compliance with your own preferred world view, but of course that is only because reality itself is aligned with your preferences, as always. (ARE you really Kim Jung-il's flawless spirit haunting the Internet for mankind's eternal elucidation? One cannot help wondering. We can rule out Kim Jong-un as he has not yet acquired such a level of general expertitude, but methinks only Kim Jung-il's perfection can match your own self-perceived level of pomposity.)

tl/dr: Dumb ass.

 

[Veliko]

America's projection of power has by design benefitted your average British/French/German/Australian as much as your average American. This is true to some degree of European projection of power as well, but to a lesser extent.

That's not what I asked.

If America being a superpower doesn't benefit your average American why the clamour about being one?

 

[fskimospy]

Um, okay . . . Thank you for sharing the Bronie view of reality, I suppose.


America's projection of power has by design benefitted your average British/French/German/Australian as much as your average American. This is true to some degree of European projection of power as well, but to a lesser extent.


I'd agree that left and right can restrict civil liberties equally and that as they become more authoritarian become virtually indistinguishable from one another, but attitudes about what is and is not acceptable (i.e. which civil liberties) are above the general permitted level of freedom and coordinate roughly to a left-right axis. As you point out, that is why there are two axes rather than simply one, but that is also why such tests are never definitive, for the left-right axis greatly affects the authoritarian-libertarian axis so that which civil liberties one chooses to emphasize greatly affects a particular entities' placement on the authoritarian-libertarian scale.

This is just babbling nonsense. You're tying yourself in knots trying to avoid admitting fault. Maybe you should have thought about that before trying to call someone else dishonest. Then again, no one has so many locks on their door as a burglar. Someone as fundamentally dishonest as yourself probably always sees that in others.

And please forgive my ignorance - we cannot all be general experts on literally everything such as your own sublime exceptionalism. Perhaps for the enlightenment of us poor blighted souls you can provide a list of which freedoms are applicable (and thus indicative of America's backwardness, of course) and which are irrelevant. I've no doubt that such a list will demonstrate 100% compliance with your own preferred world view, but of course that is only because reality itself is aligned with your preferences, as always. (ARE you really Kim Jung-il's flawless spirit haunting the Internet for mankind's eternal elucidation? One cannot help wondering. We can rule out Kim Jong-un as he has not yet acquired such a level of general expertitude, but methinks only Kim Jung-il's perfection can match your own self-perceived level of pomposity.)

tl/dr: Dumb ass.

Lol. Nice rage flameout.

 

[Texashiker]

You don't know what that term means, clearly.

so you have nothing?

Everyone: "You're a fucking moron and a worthless individual."

As a plan B type of person I do not expect you to understand what "responsibility" means. Yes, is it a long and confusing word. I suggest you look up its meaning and make an attempt to apply "responsibility" to your everyday life.

During the election obama made certain promises to the people. Those promises turned out to be lies.

Rather than taking responsibility for his failed actions, he continues to stand on his platform of lies and deceit.

Industrialization allows for construction of more efficient ways to destroy the human body, so unless you have a plan for preventing anyone else from advancing, you're not going to be able to stop them gaining additional power to deal death.

Drugs bad, ok?

Chances are you have clue what Industrialization means, but have not the slightest idea what construction means.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Ah yes, it's the liberals fault, not the conservative corporation and businesses that have been shipping jobs overseas.

Or, rather, it's their own fault! Instead of being happy with making $25,000 a year, they complain about wanting more money,... probably to pay for their drugs, tattoos, iPhones, TVs, cable bill, more drugs, video games, abortions, gay sex orgy parties, booze and even more drugs.

 

[CPA]

Views evolve.

Uno

As much add I'd like believe this chart, I don't put much confidence in the opinion of 18-29 year old women.