Milking won't stop until Canadian online shoppers speak up

[master_shake_]

In the hot lobbying firefight going on at the moment over the government's systematic stifling of international online shopping by Canadians, one important voice is absent: consumers.
This is not terribly unusual. Farmers seldom ask the cow for permission to milk it.
But Canadian consumers seem largely unaware that a significant matter of their economic self-interest is being decided by others, quietly and behind closed doors.
In the Canadian order of things, access to consumers is controlled by government, which grants pretty much exclusive privileges to Canada's business sector, in return for guarantees of stability and an unshaken status quo.
That is especially so with e-commerce, at least where the massive American and European marketplaces are concerned. So strictly is international online shopping controlled, and penalized, that Canadians seem to have largely given up trying.
Once Canada Customs tacks on protectionist duties and sales taxes and customs brokers add their fees, the package often becomes so expensive as to render the purchase pointless, which of course is the point.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/online-shopping-cross-border-duties-taxes-de-minimus-1.3656603

that bolded part is the biggest kick in the nuts ever.

that's why i have a guy that goes over there and gets shit for me.

fuck you canadian retailers.

fuck you.

 

[IronWing]

Does this mean that that one Canadian poster over in P&N can stop bitching about NAFTA now?

 

[stormkroe]

They close up the exceptions really quick, too. A few years ago, canadia quit allowing federal-pioneer electrical panels and Schneider brought in Homeline as a replacement (which is very common in the US where I'm from). For 2 years in a row I brought back between 3 and $5k worth of breakers, which was equal to 9 to$15k maple syrup dollars. Now? None of them have CSA approval on their stickers any more, so they're not legal for installation here. Exact same thing, just printed a different sticker and they can keep charging $50 for a 2 pole 60amp breaker instead of $8.95 from Lowe's USA, or $80 for an a4x fault instead of $32.00.
Good times :/

 

[Newbian]

Yea but you get free health care so it's evens out...

 

[sandorski]

This is fucking stupid. Essentially you would like to shop Tax Free, something Canadian Business Owners can't offer. Fuck that.

 

[XavierMace]

This is fucking stupid. Essentially you would like to shop Tax Free, something Canadian Business Owners can't offer. Fuck that.

I'm not even Canadian and I know that's not what they are asking for.

 

[master_shake_]

This is fucking stupid. Essentially you would like to shop Tax Free, something Canadian Business Owners can't offer. Fuck that.

oh boo hoo to canadian retailers getting fucked,

nevermind they've been fucking us for fucking years.

Here is a pdf of eBay's submission to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Finance. The company hired law firm Sidley Austin to run the economic models.

Sidley Austin’s findings show that the Government is currently spending $166 million (CAD) to collect just $39 million in duty and taxes on goods valued between $20 and $80, and that if the de minimis were increased to that level, the government could either recognize $127 million in savings or reinvest that money in collecting duties and taxes on higher valued goods, bringing in another $34 million.5 Considering items between $20 and $200, the difference between the cost to collect ($278 million) and the amount reclaimed ($117 million) is even greater, suggesting the possible savings for government are even more substantial.
​

yep nothing wrong here.

Further, the Canadian threshold for taxing and applying duty to imports, known as de minimis, is a mere $20, the lowest in the developed world (the Americans don't tax or apply duty to any package worth less than $800 US, more than 40 times the Canadian limit).
This pax canadiana, designed mainly for the benefit of Canadian retailers and, they would argue, their employees, has been around forever, but a loose coalition of Americans and Canadians has for years been demanding that Canada open its online consumer market.

nope not protectionist at all.

 

[Miramonti]

There is a fundamental issue here, open markets vs. protectionism. There are clearly pros and cons to both, and without debating each variable and example, it's tiresome and annoying listening to supporters of either side whine and moan.

Status quo, rise up and be victorious!

 

[shortylickens]

My uncle has a P.O. Box in Buffalo.

 

[cbrunny]

More important issues. Like getting Kathleen Wynne out of office. Literally nothing else matters. She is terrible for Canada - Ontario in particular.

 

[Spungo]

that's why i have a guy that goes over there and gets shit for me.

Same as always. People complain about protectionism jacking up the cost of goods, and then they complain about the lack of protectionism to keep jobs in the country.

 

[DrPizza]

oh boo hoo to canadian retailers getting fucked,

nevermind they've been fucking us for fucking years.

yep nothing wrong here.



nope not protectionist at all.

I wonder if any part of the reason for that is that 90% of Canadians are a reasonable drive away from the US border? It would take me about 1 1/2 hours to get to Canada from here. But, if I had a nice sized shopping list, and could save hundreds of dollars, I'd take a trip every month.

 

[master_shake_]

Same as always. People complain about protectionism jacking up the cost of goods, and then they complain about the lack of protectionism to keep jobs in the country.

so just bend over and take it?

is that really the solution?

 

[sandorski]

so just bend over and take it?

is that really the solution?

If you want the Benefits, you have to Pay the Price. Sorry.

 

[master_shake_]

If you want the Benefits, you have to Pay the Price. Sorry.

what benefits exactly.

less choice higher price?

sales tax is ok to me.

but what about the disparity in price. and i'm not talking exchange.

 

[sandorski]

what benefits exactly.

less choice higher price?

sales tax is ok to me.

but what about the disparity in price. and i'm not talking exchange.

Why do you think that disparity exists?

 

[Sonikku]

Farmers seldom ask the cow for permission to milk it.

Going to have to remember that one. :hmm:

 

[Spungo]

If you want the Benefits, you have to Pay the Price. Sorry.

I demand all of the benefits with none of the cost. I want to pay Canadians a living wage plus benefit but I want slave wage prices.

 

[master_shake_]

Why do you think that disparity exists?

The Harper government is hiking duties on imported goods from more than 70 countries including China to help retire the deficit faster – a move that could cost Canadian consumers $330-million more per year in higher retail prices.
The 2013 budget measure overshadows a $76-million tariff-rate break for foreign sports gear and baby clothes also announced Thursday that the Harper government played up as an effort to address consumer frustration about excessively high retail prices.

The higher duties will be applied to rapidly developing countries – six dozen in all – that Ottawa argues don’t need a special discounted duty rate any more. These include China, Russia, Brazil and India.
Since 1974, Canada has granted developing countries a break on the barriers to selling goods here as a means of promoting their economic growth and helping diversify their exports. These shipments enjoyed what is called the General Preferential Tariff, which was roughly 3 percentage points lower – $3 per $100 of value – than that applied to imports from major industrialized countries.
The government expects many companies will respond to the tariff change by sourcing their product from other countries that still enjoy a discounted duty rate in Canada.
The change will reap a gold mine for Ottawa: It’s estimated in the budget at nearly $1-billion over three years alone in additional tariff revenue.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-equipment-and-baby-clothes/article10143854/

looks like shitty government.

also

Manufacturers claim that Canadian prices are higher due to labour and transportation costs, tariffs, the smaller Canadian market and other issues.
Bayer responded to Marketplace's story with an email pointing to similar factors causing higher prices in Canada.

A bottle of Bayer aspirin cost 132 per cent more at a Canadian Wal-Mart than a U.S. one, Marketplace found. (CBC)

"These dynamics are influenced by a variety of factors such as local economic conditions, cost of goods, differences in product formulation and local regulatory packaging and distribution costs," it read in part. " A direct comparison of Canadian and U.S. prices is not appropriate."
Brisebois says those issues should only cause slight price increases, but such high double- and triple-digit markups are indefensible.
"I don't care what the manufacturer says," she told Marketplace host Tom Harrington, "You cannot justify 30 per cent, 50 per cent, 100 per cent more in Canada than in the United States. It may cost a bit more to do business in one country versus another, but we're talking about five to 10 per cent.
"I don't believe in that crap," she added. "I think it's a bloody lie, and I think retailers are saying enough is enough."
It's difficult for many retailers to fight back effectively, because the manufacturers can essentially hold them hostage.

shitty retailers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/country-pricing-a-cause-of-canada-u-s-price-gaps-1.1405894

the second article is when our dollar was par our greater than the usd iirc.

so the only reasonable thing a consumer can do is go around the shitty government and around the shitty retailers and buy from a country that can satisfy your needs.

 

[master_shake_]

I demand all of the benefits with none of the cost. I want to pay Canadians a living wage plus benefit but I want slave wage prices.

oh you can fuck right off.

when our dollar was at par everything was still ~30 percent more than us prices.

also still waiting for someone to list some benefits.

 

[Spungo]

oh you can fuck right off.

when our dollar was at par everything was still ~30 percent more than us prices.

That's the price you pay for higher wages. Australia is a perfect example of this. The minimum wage in Australia is something like $20/h, and that's why video games cost $110 instead of $60 even when the two currencies trade at parity.

You can have US prices if you really want, but you'll get all of the income inequality and crime that comes with it.

 

[sandorski]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-equipment-and-baby-clothes/article10143854/

looks like shitty government.

also



shitty retailers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/country-pricing-a-cause-of-canada-u-s-price-gaps-1.1405894

the second article is when our dollar was par our greater than the usd iirc.

so the only reasonable thing a consumer can do is go around the shitty government and around the shitty retailers and buy from a country that can satisfy your needs.

Just "shitty Retailers"?

Are our Retailers making higher Profits?

Could it be they Have to have those Prices?

 

[master_shake_]

That's the price you pay for higher wages. Australia is a perfect example of this. The minimum wage in Australia is something like $20/h, and that's why video games cost $110 instead of $60 even when the two currencies trade at parity.

You can have US prices if you really want, but you'll get all of the income inequality and crime that comes with it.

so with that logic this shit impossible.

http://www.washington.edu/news/2016...prices-minimal-one-year-after-implementation/

Most Seattle employers surveyed in a University of Washington-led study said in 2015 that they expected to raise prices on goods and services to compensate for the city’s move to a $15 per hour minimum wage.
But a year after the law’s April 2015 implementation, the study indicates such increases don’t seem to be happening.
The interdisciplinary Seattle Minimum Wage Study team, centered in the Evans School for Public Policy & Governance surveyed employers and workers and scanned area commodity and service prices. The team’s report found “little or no evidence” of price increases in Seattle relative to other areas, its report states.

impossible.

Just "shitty Retailers"?

Are our Retailers making higher Profits?

Could it be they Have to have those Prices?

you missed the shitty government part.

 

[sandorski]

so with that logic this shit impossible.

http://www.washington.edu/news/2016...prices-minimal-one-year-after-implementation/



impossible.



you missed the shitty government part.

Changes nothing. Care to respond to the questions?

 

[kage69]

I remember once hearing someone in New Brunswick say they wanted to move to the US so he could "use Amazon the way god intended."

Heh. I guess this is what he was talking about.