Mikhail Gorbachev: Communism was `pure propaganda'

Aug 10, 2001
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The Associated Press
3/11/02 9:30 PM

NEW YORK (AP) -- Mikhail Gorbachev says the Soviet communism he served most of his life was "pure propaganda."

The former Soviet leader told a Columbia University audience on Monday that by the time he rose to power, with Soviet satellites in space, the ruling politicians "were discussing the problem of toothpaste, the problem of detergent, and they had to create a commission of the Politburo to make sure that women have pantyhose."

Speaking in Russian, Gorbachev offered his views a decade after he helped topple this "unreal system" with reforms dubbed perestroika.

Before that, he said, Soviet politicians operated with lies.

"We, including I, were saying, 'Capitalism is moving toward a catastrophe, whereas we are developing well.' Of course, that was pure propaganda. In fact, our country was lagging behind," Gorbachev said.

Change didn't come easily, either.

Gorbachev said perestroika spun out of control after Boris Yeltsin took over in 1991. Instead of a gradual shift to democracy, Yeltsin promised Russians that they "would start moving toward paradise quickly, directly," Gorbachev said.

"Well, we did move directly -- but into an abyss," with the economy collapsing and many former Soviet republics declaring independence, he said. "It is chaos that (Russian President) Vladimir Putin inherited. Chaos in the economy, chaos in the social sphere, chaos in the federation, chaos in the army, chaos everywhere."

Now, Gorbachev said, Putin must create new economic incentives.

"Today is our last hope. If it fails, we could see a very difficult situation in Russia," Gorbachev said.

The former Soviet leader said his Moscow-based Gorbachev Foundation is making a contribution by developing ties between Russian and foreign high-tech companies. He said such business would help slow his country's "brain drain."

Gorbachev's speech, titled "Russia: Today and the Future," was part of the annual W. Averell Harriman Lecture sponsored by the Manhattan university's Harriman Institute. The academic center is devoted to the study of the Russian empire, the Soviet Union and the post-communist states.

In the rotunda of the Low Library, Gorbachev began his speech by outlining his country's history, starting with the 1917 revolution that introduced communism as an ideal he himself espoused as a youth.

Still, he said he feels "hopeful."

"Putin has achieved a great deal," he said.

And he said the new Russia has made progress by strongly supporting the United States twice in recent years -- after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and during the Gulf War.

Earlier Monday, Gorbachev laid a wreath at the World Trade Center site to mark six months since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"We will always remember the victims, and we will always be together," he wrote in Russian on a platform overlooking ground zero.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Good article, I'v always liked Gorbachev and belived he was way better for Russia than Yeltsin.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
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We have known this for years, but it is good for it to get press, especially from the horse's mouth.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< We have known this for years, but it is good for it to get press, especially from the horse's mouth. >>


Gorbachev was the one who was pushing the change, he was not the "horse".
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Czar, the term "horses mouth" refers to one who had experience in a particular matter. Gorbachev was the leader of the Soviet Union at the time, and therefore is qualified to make this statement, as opposed to speculation by you or me. Glen will correct me if I take his meaning wrong.
 

Novgrod

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2001
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heh too bad russia's going back to its old ways, what with state-run media and all.

Unfortunately imho, they've had a declining population since 1914, a declining LEB (55 or so now), and they're in trouble.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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<< heh too bad russia's going back to its old ways, what with state-run media and all. >>


Not like there isn't progress there too though. Remember the call-in show where a million Russians wanted to talk to Putin?
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< Czar, the term "horses mouth" refers to one who had experience in a particular matter. Gorbachev was the leader of the Soviet Union at the time, and therefore is qualified to make this statement, as opposed to speculation by you or me. Glen will correct me if I take his meaning wrong. >>


True but he is not the one who presented the "communist" system which this article is about so he is not the "horse" or whatever, just different how you look at it though :)
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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<< Communism has never been fully implemented. >>




Oddly enough, it was on a small scale. The early Christian church. Everything was shared. If a thing was sold the proceeds were divided amongst the members. Knowing how you love religious threads elledan, I thought you might find that of interest ;)
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
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<< Communism has never been fully implemented. >>



rolleye.gif
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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<< Communism has never been fully implemented. >>



Never heard of a Utopian society? There were a couple of them speckled across the U.S. about 150 years ago. Nauvoo, IL is the most prominent one that comes to mind. They didn't last long because they couldn't afford to trade for the goods they couldn't produce.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<<

<< Communism has never been fully implemented. >>



Never heard of a Utopian society? There were a couple of them speckled across the U.S. about 150 years ago. Nauvoo, IL is the most prominent one that comes to mind. They didn't last long because they couldn't afford to trade for the goods they couldn't produce.
>>


that is exactly one of the biggest problems of communism, apart from human nature, and that is outside inflence, communism has to be 100% pure to have a chance of working.
 

glen

Lifer
Apr 28, 2000
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I have talked to many State officials in Prague and Budapest. They were so relieved when it was over. They said you can't begin to imagine the mess it all was. I believe them.

If you take the Orient Express from Vienna and head towards Budapest, you will see the communist housing projects.
A bout 45 mins before you reach Budapest, you will see out either side of the train, miles of appartment buildings, all the same in every direction for miles. There is very little grafitti, but it is bleak. Unimaginably bleak. Communism and socialism were an incredible disaster. A whole section of the KGB was dedicated to promoting socialist and communist propoganda and covering up it problems.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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glen
socialism was not a disaster, we have most of Europe as proof of that. Communism then again was, I'v seen some of the old areas in western Europe and they are just awful.
 

Elledan

Banned
Jul 24, 2000
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<<

<< Communism has never been fully implemented. >>



Never heard of a Utopian society? There were a couple of them speckled across the U.S. about 150 years ago. Nauvoo, IL is the most prominent one that comes to mind. They didn't last long because they couldn't afford to trade for the goods they couldn't produce.
>>


I don't mean on such a small scale. I was referring to a larger group of people, like a country.
 

royaldank

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2001
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I'd bet there is a large portion of our government that is pure propaganda and lies. All governments are this way, or else they'd lose their power. It's just another way to control people.

Communism is a neat idea, but I think humans are too greedy to make it work on a global or country wide scale. So, I'd have to say communism is a myth or great idea, but not something that will every work.
 

Novgrod

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2001
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It's not quite fair to say that Sweden is a socialist state, because, strictly speaking, there has to be a revolution. That said, I think that you're right; Sweden has the highest percentage of wealth redistribution.

If memory serves, and I may be a little fuzzy here, nobody has ever realistically claimed to achieve communism, which is the dissolution of all modes of government. I think it was '64 before the Russians claimed to have achieved socialism.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Yup, according to Marx Communism is more of a form of Anarchy(as in government free) than what the Soviet Union ever was.

Gorby is correct though, the Soviet Union shouldn't have abruptly dissolved the way it did, at least economically speaking. It should have slowly evolved into a free market economy, similar to what is happening in China.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
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<< Yup, according to Marx Communism is more of a form of Anarchy(as in government free) than what the Soviet Union ever was.

Gorby is correct though, the Soviet Union shouldn't have abruptly dissolved the way it did, at least economically speaking. It should have slowly evolved into a free market economy, similar to what is happening in China.
>>




Yep. Unfortunately that did not happen and now most of eastern Europe and russia have it bad. You just can't switch from government controlled enterprise to a private one overnight.

Most people expected also unrealistic expectations, they thought they would get rich now that they are capitalists...how disapointed they were....
However, if you work hard, its not bad at all. I personally know of two such cases. A friend of mine's parents started a small travel agency back in 91 (or thereabouts) and struggled at the beggining, but now they own 4 busses, have several offices and about 15-20 emplyees. This other case, these friends of my parents started their own furniture store in 92, today they have 3 stores and are doing quite well.

But at the current rate, it won't be long before the gap between EE and WE narrows, my guess would be 35-50 years.