mike tyson - most overrated heavyweight ever?

[ElFenix]

did he ever beat anyone? the best boxer he ever beat was holmes, who was really old at the time. sure, hes knocked a lot of people out in the first round, but none of those guys were any good at all. that would be like me walking into the ring with mike.

 

[slikmunks]

back in the day he was good... he's kind of small compared to like lennox lewis and stuff... but back in his prime, if he wasn't matched up against someone that was a lot longer than him, he was quick, and hit hard as FVCK!!

 

[Ns1]

don't give him his medication and he will fvck you up!

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
did he ever beat anyone? the best boxer he ever beat was holmes, who was really old at the time. sure, hes knocked a lot of people out in the first round, but none of those guys were any good at all. that would be like me walking into the ring with mike.

Foreman was pretty good, did tyson ever fight him??

I saw a special on Ali the other day, he was a pretty amazing fighter. i remember growing up thinking that ALI was like Elvis. he made that strong an impression on me.

 

[slikmunks]

btw, that's how he got his first round tko's... you don't get a bunch of first round tko's by being lucky

 

[Queasy]

Up until he dumped his trainer, he dominated his time period in the sport...so, I don't think you can call him over-rated.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Up until he dumped his trainer, he dominated his time period in the sport...so, I don't think you can call him over-rated.

thats the point, he may have dominated but he dominated over washed up has-beens and no-names.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Queasy
Up until he dumped his trainer, he dominated his time period in the sport...so, I don't think you can call him over-rated.

thats the point, he may have dominated but he dominated over washed up has-beens and no-names.

Well, you can only judge him by the period he fought in. He got all the hype and he dominated his fights. To me, overrated would be if he got all the hype and failed to show up for his fights. If you were to judge him on his post-prison career alone, then yeah, he is overrated.

 

[Hammer]

well he's a heavyweight now, but other than bernard hopkins who has RJJ fought? no one.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Until Cus Amato died and he split with Kevin Rooney, Tyson was an unstoppable force of nature. There was probably never another heavyweight that combined his punching power, his complete obliviousness to counterpunching and his barely controlled fury in the ring. Ali wanted to cut you apart like a surgeon, Marciano wanted to brawl you to prove he was the toughest guy, but Tyson seemed to truly want his opponents dead. He's turned himself into a long-running joke ala Michael Jackson, but between 1985 and 1990, Tyson was probably the most dominant heavyweight ever. Nobody even belonged in the ring with him. If Cus Amato was still alive today and had kept him under some sort of control, he'd probably be considered the best ever rather than the circus act that he's become. Just watch his early fights, no matter who he was up against or what you might have thought about his opponents, watching him fight in that era was like watching a tornado rip apart a trailer park.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Until Cus Amato died and he split with Kevin Rooney, Tyson was an unstoppable force of nature. There was probably never another heavyweight that combined his punching power, his complete obliviousness to counterpunching and his barely controlled fury in the ring. Ali wanted to cut you apart like a surgeon, Marciano wanted to brawl you to prove he was the toughest guy, but Tyson seemed to truly want his opponents dead. He's turned himself into a long-running joke ala Michael Jackson, but between 1985 and 1990, Tyson was probably the most dominant heavyweight ever. Nobody even belonged in the ring with him. If Cus Amato was still alive today and had kept him under some sort of control, he'd probably be considered the best ever rather than the circus act that he's become. Just watch his early fights, no matter who he was up against or what you might have thought about his opponents, watching him fight in that era was like watching a tornado rip apart a trailer park.

I don't know, I remember George Foreman in his prime and he hit pretty hard.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Who does anybody really fight anymore?

Tyson really has had 2 careers. He was dominant during his first career, prior to incarceration. Iron Mike was soooo dominant until his psyche cracked. The Buster Douglas fight really did him in. Soon after that loss, he was divorced from Robin Givens. THen he was convicted (possibly wrongly) of rape.

Post incarceration, he is mediocre at best. He is a freak. A carnival sideshow.

Carnival sideshows, if properly managed, can make a tremendous amount of revenue.

 

[Mrburns2007]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
Until Cus Amato died and he split with Kevin Rooney, Tyson was an unstoppable force of nature. There was probably never another heavyweight that combined his punching power, his complete obliviousness to counterpunching and his barely controlled fury in the ring. Ali wanted to cut you apart like a surgeon, Marciano wanted to brawl you to prove he was the toughest guy, but Tyson seemed to truly want his opponents dead. He's turned himself into a long-running joke ala Michael Jackson, but between 1985 and 1990, Tyson was probably the most dominant heavyweight ever. Nobody even belonged in the ring with him. If Cus Amato was still alive today and had kept him under some sort of control, he'd probably be considered the best ever rather than the circus act that he's become. Just watch his early fights, no matter who he was up against or what you might have thought about his opponents, watching him fight in that era was like watching a tornado rip apart a trailer park.

Agreed....those two people helped Tyson become Heavyweight Champion and then he lost his edge.

 

[y2kc]

Most overrated? Without question. I remember having this discussion with my dad back in the late 80s. My dad and I were arguing over whether Tyson was good or not. I took the stance that although Tyson was a skilled puncher and a great knocout artist with speed, a great boxer he was not. My dad didn't think so. At the time Evander Holyfield was a light-heavy weight, a boxing machine. He dismantled everyone that was put in front of him, a true boxer. I thought that even then if Evander and Tyson fought in their prime, Tyson had no shot. Soon Thereafter, Buster Douglas showed the world that Tyson was a myth, most of his early bouts (pre- title) were won before the opponent got in the ring, you would see some of them shaking in fear.

Tyson had noone to fight in his prime. Buster Douglas, a journeyman at best, took tyson to school. Tyson's trainers never taught him how to box. He was always short for a heavyweight, therefore his best and only chance was brute force (which he could deliver) and speed. Throw in the intimidation factor and you've got yourself a world champion (I'm sure his borderline insanity helped a bit too).

I'm no Roy Jones fan but I think that he could have beaten tyson in his prime. Any of the great heavyweights of the past in my opinion would have killed Tyson as far as I'm concerned. Tyson doesn't rate in the top 10 heavyweights of all time IMHO.

 

[Codewiz]

I find it funny how people say Tyson didn't fight anyone!!!! Ali is considered to have fought people because he lost to other heavyweights like Foreman and Frazier. They were all great boxers in their time and could beat each other depending on the day and conditions.

No one could challenge Tyson. He dominated. There was no competition because he was so dominate. He had no rivalries because he was unstopable. You can't tell me he didn't fight good fighters. The fighters just fought during a time when there was someone "unbeatable". Tyson only lost because he bought into his unbeatable image.

I think that the fighters that Tyson beat the crap out of were quality fighters, just people not on Tyson's level. I don't think too many people past or present could have beat Tyson in his prime. He had quickness, power, and a chin. He could take punches coming into people and then throw a knockout punch. There is no easy way to defend against Tyson during his prime.

The problem with Tyson now is that he is slow. He has lost that quickness to avoid the big punches and blow an opponent away. That is why Lewis killed him. Tyson couldn't avoid anything in that fight.

I personally think Tyson in his prime would have given Ali or any other great fighter a very difficult match with Tyson winning a majority of fights.

The reason Lewis is able to dominate is because Lewis has all the boxing tools. Tyson doesn't. Tyson had 3 big tools in his prime and was SO good at them that no one could stop him. Lewis has so many tools he is good with so that when something doesn't work he can adjust. Tyson in his old age can't change a boxing style that he has been using his entire career.

One last fight I would like to see is Tua versus Tyson.

 

[subdismal]

Hrm, I enjoy boxing and Mike Tyson is a boxer who stands out in my mind. I guess mainly because of his out of the ring antics and whatnot, but in the ring, he used to be awesome. I'm not sure about statistics, but from what I remember, Tyson was Golden Gloves champion at one point and time and he probably won the majority of his fights in his day.

But, about calling him overrated, I don't think you could do that. I don't think you can call any boxer overrated because of the physical punishment they get all the time in the ring. It's really a pretty grueling sport.

Speaking of Tyson, he has a fight coming up on the 22nd of this month against Clifford Etienne. I've never of his opponent, and I'm not sure how the fight will go, but I am looking forward to a possible Lennox vs. Tyson 2.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: subdismal
Hrm, I enjoy boxing and Mike Tyson is a boxer who stands out in my mind. I guess mainly because of his out of the ring antics and whatnot, but in the ring, he used to be awesome. I'm not sure about statistics, but from what I remember, Tyson was Golden Gloves champion at one point and time and he probably won the majority of his fights in his day.

But, about calling him overrated, I don't think you could do that. I don't think you can call any boxer overrated because of the physical punishment they get all the time in the ring. It's really a pretty grueling sport.

Speaking of Tyson, he has a fight coming up on the 22nd of this month against Clifford Etienne. I've never of his opponent, and I'm not sure how the fight will go, but I am looking forward to a possible Lennox vs. Tyson 2.

Tyson will not be fighting on the 22nd. Go to ESPN. The fight isn't cancelled but it will be after today. If it isn't then I think Tyson will lose. He hasn't trained in a week.

EDIT: The whole reason they picked Etienne is that fact that Etienne doesn't have the boxing skills to beat Tyson. He is the type of fighter that Tyson can kill even today. The reason they picked him is they want to make Mike think he has regained his dominance. With Mike it is all a head game. I just think without training Mike won't have his head to be in a fight.

 

[Queasy]

When was the last time that there were two heavyweight boxers in their prime at the same time? There hasn't been anything like the Ali/Foreman rivalry in a loooong time.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: GagHalfrunt
between 1985 and 1990, Tyson was probably the most dominant heavyweight ever. Nobody even belonged in the ring with him.

there wasn't anyone else who was even a smidgeon of a good heavyweight during that time period! tyson was the only one!

when you put a AAA guy into a A league game he probably looks good but that doesn't mean he belongs in the majors.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Queasy
When was the last time that there were two heavyweight boxers in their prime at the same time? There hasn't been anything like the Ali/Foreman rivalry in a loooong time.

I think Bowe/HolyField could have been an awesome rivalry but Bowe just collapsed. If you go to ESPN there is an article where Bowe says he is going to make a comeback and destroy Lewis

 

[Spac3d]

How old are you? Do you remember seeing him fight before he went to jail? It sure doesn't sound like it.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Queasy
When was the last time that there were two heavyweight boxers in their prime at the same time? There hasn't been anything like the Ali/Foreman rivalry in a loooong time.

I think Bowe/HolyField could have been an awesome rivalry but Bowe just collapsed. If you go to ESPN there is an article where Bowe says he is going to make a comeback and destroy Lewis

Yeah, but Lewis is past his prime IMHO. Both he and Tyson were past their prime when they fought. Lennox is in his prime but doesn't have a big rival other than Lewis..and that's not much of a rivalry.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: slikmunks
back in the day he was good... he's kind of small compared to like lennox lewis and stuff... but back in his prime, if he wasn't matched up against someone that was a lot longer than him, he was quick, and hit hard as FVCK!!

I agree...most savage boxer I have ever seen in his younger days.

Ausm

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Spac3d

How old are you? Do you remember seeing him fight before he went to jail? It sure doesn't sound like it.

Was that directed towards me? Yes I remember watching almost all the Tyson fights after he fought Marvis Frazier. I actually did some amateur boxing in my younger years. I just wasn't very good

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Queasy
When was the last time that there were two heavyweight boxers in their prime at the same time? There hasn't been anything like the Ali/Foreman rivalry in a loooong time.

I think Bowe/HolyField could have been an awesome rivalry but Bowe just collapsed. If you go to ESPN there is an article where Bowe says he is going to make a comeback and destroy Lewis

Yeah, but Lewis is past his prime IMHO. Both he and Tyson were past their prime when they fought. Lennox is in his prime but doesn't have a big rival other than Lewis..and that's not much of a rivalry.

What does that have to do with Bowe/Holyfield rivalry?