Midrange Build Check

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
Looking for sanity/feasibility check on the following (based on the very helpful mid-range guide).

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/nPm9P6

1. Use: gaming + productivity (nothing strenuous--no video editing, no crazy GPU-enhanced protein folding, totally ok with non-maxed out game settings).

2. Budget: prefer to keep machine itself at $1200 or less, but could go to ~$1400 (see questions at bottom).

3. Parts source: USA

4. n/a

5. Brand preferences: none.

6. Current parts: DVD r/w drive, mouse, monitor.

7. Overclocking: no thank you.

8. Resolution: current monitor is 1920x1080. Would like the machine to support 3840x2160 or 2x 2560x1440 on one card if possible (for general use, _not_ gaming--I'm fine with 1920x1080 for games).

9. Timing: before the end of April 2015 unless people expect massive price drops/advances in early summer 2015.

10. Software/other: Windows 8.1 student, Debian

My questions:

q1. I'd be willing to invest in an aftermarket HSF if it meaningfully (say, 10%+) increased part life and/or reduced noise. Is this reasonable without paying an arm and a leg? If so, part recommendations?

q2. I'm looking to get 5 years of life out of this machine (as a general purpose box, it's fine if it can't run 2020 games). Given that, are there particular parts or upgrades that it's worth considering for their reliability?

q3. Cursory searching claims an R9 290X or GTX 970 can both run 2 2560x1440 monitors in non-gaming applications. Does this jive with forumites' experience?

q4. Have a missed anything obvious above? Been a _long_ time since I put a machine together.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
You just need to use dual-link DVI and Display port to get dual 1440p monitors. Most cards have at least one of each. You don't need a high end card for that. But if keeping for five years, a 4GB card makes sense. I'd look at the Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X.

An aftermarket cooler can be much quieter than the stock Intel cooler. The Arctic i30 is a good option.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
I guess it's OK bro..
If you're wanting to game..and never overclock n stuff..seems OK
This is not my realm of expertise..
but..what PSU was it again?
Oh...HCG 750..that's dandy :)
not bad..really not bad :D
 

OlyAR15

Senior member
Oct 23, 2014
982
242
116
1. The stock intel HSF is fine if you are not overclocking. You can get quieter aftermarket HSF, but the stock isn't bad. I would just use the stock one for now, since you could always upgrade later if you find it too loud for your taste. If you are not overclocking, there isn't going to be much of a difference in component life.

2. The parts should have no trouble lasting more than 5 years. Of course, any part can fail at any time, especially the hard drive. I would recommend picking up an external drive for data backup.

3. Pretty much any discrete graphics card can run dual monitors @1440/1600p in desktop mode.

4. PSU is a bit overpowered, but should work fine. Otherwise I don't see any glaring issues.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
Thanks for the feedback, all.

4. PSU is a bit overpowered, but should work fine. Otherwise I don't see any glaring issues.

Would you suggest something smaller/cheaper then? If so how much lower should I go?
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
22,400
5
71
www.mfenn.com
Does that mean you'd stick with a 750W PSU? OlyAR15 suggested it was a bit much and pcpartpicker thinks total power draw should cap around 450W. Would you go to a 650W unit?

There's nothing wrong with getting a 650W, it just so happens that the TP-750C is an amazing price right now. The best 650W deal I see right now is the Rosewill Photon at $62 AR AP. But at that point you're paying more for a lower quality (but still reasonable) unit.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
Thanks for the advice, all. One last followup: if I go with the stock cooler for now is it worth using aftermarket thermal paste, or can I safely live with the preapplied stuff and just get more if/when I switch out to another HSF?
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
q1. I'd be willing to invest in an aftermarket HSF if it meaningfully (say, 10%+) increased part life and/or reduced noise. Is this reasonable without paying an arm and a leg? If so, part recommendations?
Depends. Under load, with an i5 or higher, the stock cooler can get grindy/whiny. The video card, with your current parts, will be much louder, though. For an R9 290, get a Vapor-X, Tri-X, or DirectCU.

q2. I'm looking to get 5 years of life out of this machine (as a general purpose box, it's fine if it can't run 2020 games). Given that, are there particular parts or upgrades that it's worth considering for their reliability?
Not really. But, check out the E3-1231V3, which is the Devil's Canyon (refresh) CPU model. 100MHz isn't much, but it goes for the same price as the E3-1230V3.

Thanks for the advice, all. One last followup: if I go with the stock cooler for now is it worth using aftermarket thermal paste, or can I safely live with the preapplied stuff and just get more if/when I switch out to another HSF?
Use the pre-applied. It's good stuff.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
Follow-up (apologies if this should be a new thread in Computer Help):

Bought the parts above and am running into an issue putting everything together. Specifically, the cable connecting the case USB ports to the motherboard blocks the graphics card when positioned in the recommended PCIe 3 slot.

As far as I can tell I have two semi-reasonable options:

1. disconnect the USB cable and live without the case ports.

2. install the card in the PCIe 2 slot (though this puts it really close to the switch/led wires and the card covers the northbridge (?) heatsink on the motherboard).

Thoughts?
 

OlyAR15

Senior member
Oct 23, 2014
982
242
116
Can you post a picture of the area? Assuming you ended up getting the Asrock H97M motherboard, Radeon 290 video card, and Corsair case, there should be no issue plugging in the USB cable into the motherboard. Looking at the pic of the motherboard on Asrock's site, it looks like the edge of the USB connector lines up pretty closely to the first PCIe slot, but you should be able to position the cable so it doesn't interfere with the video card. It shouldn't matter if the USB connector is touching the edge of the card.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
Can you post a picture of the area? Assuming you ended up getting the Asrock H97M motherboard, Radeon 290 video card, and Corsair case, there should be no issue plugging in the USB cable into the motherboard. Looking at the pic of the motherboard on Asrock's site, it looks like the edge of the USB connector lines up pretty closely to the first PCIe slot, but you should be able to position the cable so it doesn't interfere with the video card. It shouldn't matter if the USB connector is touching the edge of the card.

One without the card, one with

(perspective is rotated & sorry about the lighting - no more natural light here)

It seems like it's more than "just touching" - with the plate on the top (bottom? whatever) of the 290 the cable is definitely pushing against it. Will a bit of constant pressure be fine?
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
22,400
5
71
www.mfenn.com
Follow-up (apologies if this should be a new thread in Computer Help):

It's good to post a followup here because all the relevant info is already in the thread.

Anyway, regarding the actual problem, it looks like the reason the connector is touching the card is partially due to the extra size of the 200R's USB 3.0 connector.

Since the connector is plastic, the only potential risk is from excessive force being placed on the components. If the pressure is light enough that you could still slip something between the card and connector, then I'd say you're fine. If it's really tight, you may want to shave a bit of plastic off the side of the USB 3.0 connector to make it fit better.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
So... a whole bunch of hours later, it looks like the R290 has hardware issues. Four sets of drivers (beta, current stable, previous stable, and those included on disk with the card) all produce BSODs after 5-10 minutes of uptime.

I've run through most of the solutions posted in the first few pages of Google results without success (OS reinstall, reseat card, underclock vram, uninstall Catalyst, ...).

So, for the hardware/build folks:

1. are there gpu specific tests along the lines of memtest86 that you recommend to confirm an issue with the card? Search results suggest 3D-Mark, but it's not clear how I would use it to diagnose a hardware (as opposed to driver) issue.

2. how common are bad cards? Am I overlooking other possible causes?
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Can you list out all the parts you actually ended up with so we can look for potential issues.

There's no way to test a video card that will distinguish driver errors from hardware errors. You can do that with memory because it doesn't use drivers. You basically just need to get familiar with the types of errors, which will help you determine if it's a hardware or software error.
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
Bad cards are rare but not unheard of. Do you get BSODs when running on integrated graphics? If so, I'd RMA the card.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
Can you list out all the parts you actually ended up with so we can look for potential issues.

There's no way to test a video card that will distinguish driver errors from hardware errors. You can do that with memory because it doesn't use drivers. You basically just need to get familiar with the types of errors, which will help you determine if it's a hardware or software error.

Other than Cerb's suggestion on the processor, it's just like the partpicker list:

Intel Xeon E3-1231
ASRock H97 Pro4
PowerColor R9 290
Ozc Arc ssd
Corsair 200R
Antec HCG M 750W
Crucial ram

Yuriman said:
Bad cards are rare but not unheard of. Do you get BSODs when running on integrated graphics? If so, I'd RMA the card.

I'm fairly sure it's the card and/or drivers since the BSODs (and dumps) point to the AMD driver atikmag.sys. Being a server chip I thought it was devoid of integrated graphics, but I could try connecting my monitor to the motherboard's dvi out and seeing what happens.
 
Last edited:

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
That particular R9 290 has pretty bad reviews on Newegg. It's not one I would have picked. There's a reason it's always the cheapest card PCPartPicker spits out.

When do these BSODs occur? Only during gaming or also on the desktop? And did you underclock the core as well as the VRAM on that card? It comes with a very high factory overclock (which likely has caused some of the problems with the card).
 

mfenn

Elite Member
Jan 17, 2010
22,400
5
71
www.mfenn.com
I'm fairly sure it's the card and/or drivers since the BSODs (and dumps) point to the AMD driver atikmag.sys. Being a server chip I thought it was devoid of integrated graphics, but I could try connecting my monitor to the motherboard's dvi out and seeing what happens.

Your CPU doesn't have graphics, so the DVI, HDMI, etc. ports on the motherboard are non-functional. It does sound like you have a defective card to me, so I would get the RMA process going with Newegg.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
That particular R9 290 has pretty bad reviews on Newegg. It's not one I would have picked. There's a reason it's always the cheapest card PCPartPicker spits out.

In retrospect I should have noticed that. =)

Termie said:
When do these BSODs occur? Only during gaming or also on the desktop? And did you underclock the core as well as the VRAM on that card? It comes with a very high factory overclock (which likely has caused some of the problems with the card).

Underclocked both the core and VRAM using the provided Catalyst software. BSODs even on desktop when running nothing but Firefox (with hardware acceleration disabled, since some people reported that as a possible contributing factor).
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
BSODs on the desktop probably suggest a hardware issue. Is your RAM overclocked by any chance?

If that's not your situation, you'll probably just want to return the card. You've taken every other possible step already.
 

everial

Junior Member
Mar 14, 2015
13
0
0
BSODs on the desktop probably suggest a hardware issue. Is your RAM overclocked by any chance?

I don't think so. It's not obviously advertised as such and I didn't change any of the settings in the BIOS (UEFI, whatever. Kids these days...)

Termie said:
If that's not your situation, you'll probably just want to return the card. You've taken every other possible step already.

Ok, thanks. Clearly I should have read more carefully when you suggested the other card in the first reply. =)