Middle school to give out birth control pills

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Again, I do get it, we just have different goals. I think this fostering and mentality of "Ok, you kids are gonna do this anyways, so we're going to make sure you're safe while you do it." is rediculous and will be more expensive as it becomes more and more mainstreamed. Far better it seems to me to keep it under the mentality of being scorned and wrong. Why? Because they have sex for the wrong reasons.

Yes, there will be some here who think, "Yeah, well who are you to say at what age sex is right or wrong?" To which I have no answer. However, what makes you think we should have to pay for it AT ALL? It's not the our fault nor my fault that the little 10 year old girl that lives down the street from me is a little slut who wants to get married just to get a few things and then divorce him. That came from the parents mentality. If you try to educate her otherwise I'd say you're doing all you effectively can.

What would be a better response? Try to educate her and change her mind? Or hand her a regiment of birth control pills and say "Have at it."?

I don't think paying anything to support these dispicable acts is going to help the situation. If they want to behave this way, let them. Just don't ask me to pay for the pills or the baby.

you aren't going to ever stop kids from having sex. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

The best you can do as adults is educate them and prepare them. Abstinance works but only on some. there are those that are going to do whatever. Thats who this is targeted at.

I would rather give those few girls birth control then worry about her having kids she can not support.

of course there should also be classes telling the risk of sex (stds, and kids).

Don't forget you're talking to someone who's still young enough to know everything

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I'm more concerned about the effect the hormones will have on kids so young. Are there any studies on that?

Very good question.

Precisely. My GF's mother wanted to put my GF on birth control. Me and my GF talked about it and we firmly refused. She's not finished developing yet and there is no way in hell I would make her start dumping more horomones in her body than she's already giving (processed meats etc.).

The thing that bothers me in modern society is the readiness parents have with dumping horomones and untested drugs in their daughter's bodies for the sake of "protecting" them, with no knowledge of what it will do to them. Does anyone know what 35-40 years of birth control could do to a woman? I sure as hell don't want my GF to be part of the study that finds out.

Thats why we both went to her mother and firmly told her we didn't want her on it. We are both dedicated to remaining virgins till we're married anyways. And if we did get caught up in it then "I" would take responsibility and use protection.

It's the same with ADD, ADHD, birth control; all this crap that parents think they can put in their pre/post-pubescent children and it won't affect them.

I have a deep resentment for people my age and younger, but simultaneously I have a worse resentment for their parents. People always say that these kids today are getting worse and worse, but I'm far more disgusted with the parents.

If I were one of her parents, I'd have told you to STFU and GTFO. I don't see why you should have a say in the matter, it's between her and her parents.
You need to get down from your high horse.

I do not have to sit idly by and watch my future wife get pumped full of drugs for a habit she has no intention of starting.

If I seem like I'm on a "high horse" then I apologize. But we don't all believe the way you do. We don't always think that sex whenever you want is a good practice. Why should she have horomones stuffed down her throat if she has no intention of engaging in sex anyways?

Luckily the parents have more sense than you do, and can listen when it matters. Heck, they're deaf and they apparently listen better than you do.

:laugh:
It's funny that you don't seem to realize you have a horrible superiority complex. Hopefully my daughters will have better taste than to date someone like you.

Stop picking on him or you wont be allowed to look at his anime anymore.

 

[SparkyJJO]

So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I'm more concerned about the effect the hormones will have on kids so young. Are there any studies on that?

Very good question.

Precisely. My GF's mother wanted to put my GF on birth control. Me and my GF talked about it and we firmly refused. She's not finished developing yet and there is no way in hell I would make her start dumping more horomones in her body than she's already giving (processed meats etc.).

The thing that bothers me in modern society is the readiness parents have with dumping horomones and untested drugs in their daughter's bodies for the sake of "protecting" them, with no knowledge of what it will do to them. Does anyone know what 35-40 years of birth control could do to a woman? I sure as hell don't want my GF to be part of the study that finds out.

Thats why we both went to her mother and firmly told her we didn't want her on it. We are both dedicated to remaining virgins till we're married anyways. And if we did get caught up in it then "I" would take responsibility and use protection.

It's the same with ADD, ADHD, birth control; all this crap that parents think they can put in their pre/post-pubescent children and it won't affect them.

I have a deep resentment for people my age and younger, but simultaneously I have a worse resentment for their parents. People always say that these kids today are getting worse and worse, but I'm far more disgusted with the parents.

If I were one of her parents, I'd have told you to STFU and GTFO. I don't see why you should have a say in the matter, it's between her and her parents.
You need to get down from your high horse.

I do not have to sit idly by and watch my future wife get pumped full of drugs for a habit she has no intention of starting.

If I seem like I'm on a "high horse" then I apologize. But we don't all believe the way you do. We don't always think that sex whenever you want is a good practice. Why should she have horomones stuffed down her throat if she has no intention of engaging in sex anyways?

Luckily the parents have more sense than you do, and can listen when it matters. Heck, they're deaf and they apparently listen better than you do.

:laugh:
It's funny that you don't seem to realize you have a horrible superiority complex. Hopefully my daughters will have better taste than to date someone like you.

Only in certain things. I do realize that at times I can get a big head.. who doesn't?

At the same time, I know several forum members here that can kick my rear in advanced mathematics. I certainly don't try to contest that.

But tell me this: If you know that you are not going to have sex with your GF, that you know you both will avoid it till marriage, and that you therefore know that your GF is not going to be having sex, should she be forced to take birth control pills?

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
I'm more concerned about the effect the hormones will have on kids so young. Are there any studies on that?

Very good question.

Precisely. My GF's mother wanted to put my GF on birth control. Me and my GF talked about it and we firmly refused. She's not finished developing yet and there is no way in hell I would make her start dumping more horomones in her body than she's already giving (processed meats etc.).

The thing that bothers me in modern society is the readiness parents have with dumping horomones and untested drugs in their daughter's bodies for the sake of "protecting" them, with no knowledge of what it will do to them. Does anyone know what 35-40 years of birth control could do to a woman? I sure as hell don't want my GF to be part of the study that finds out.

Thats why we both went to her mother and firmly told her we didn't want her on it. We are both dedicated to remaining virgins till we're married anyways. And if we did get caught up in it then "I" would take responsibility and use protection.

It's the same with ADD, ADHD, birth control; all this crap that parents think they can put in their pre/post-pubescent children and it won't affect them.

I have a deep resentment for people my age and younger, but simultaneously I have a worse resentment for their parents. People always say that these kids today are getting worse and worse, but I'm far more disgusted with the parents.

If I were one of her parents, I'd have told you to STFU and GTFO. I don't see why you should have a say in the matter, it's between her and her parents.
You need to get down from your high horse.

I do not have to sit idly by and watch my future wife get pumped full of drugs for a habit she has no intention of starting.

If I seem like I'm on a "high horse" then I apologize. But we don't all believe the way you do. We don't always think that sex whenever you want is a good practice. Why should she have horomones stuffed down her throat if she has no intention of engaging in sex anyways?

Luckily the parents have more sense than you do, and can listen when it matters. Heck, they're deaf and they apparently listen better than you do.

:laugh:
It's funny that you don't seem to realize you have a horrible superiority complex. Hopefully my daughters will have better taste than to date someone like you.

Stop picking on him or you wont be allowed to look at his anime anymore.

Yeah!

Wait.. Anime? Are you talking about my sig? I don't have any anime in there, just our personal project site that we do random crap on to learn. The only thing with any real content are just my two current favorite online comics.

By the way, can I call you wizzy?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Again, I do get it, we just have different goals. I think this fostering and mentality of "Ok, you kids are gonna do this anyways, so we're going to make sure you're safe while you do it." is rediculous and will be more expensive as it becomes more and more mainstreamed. Far better it seems to me to keep it under the mentality of being scorned and wrong. Why? Because they have sex for the wrong reasons.

Yes, there will be some here who think, "Yeah, well who are you to say at what age sex is right or wrong?" To which I have no answer. However, what makes you think we should have to pay for it AT ALL? It's not the our fault nor my fault that the little 10 year old girl that lives down the street from me is a little slut who wants to get married just to get a few things and then divorce him. That came from the parents mentality. If you try to educate her otherwise I'd say you're doing all you effectively can.

What would be a better response? Try to educate her and change her mind? Or hand her a regiment of birth control pills and say "Have at it."?

I don't think paying anything to support these dispicable acts is going to help the situation. If they want to behave this way, let them. Just don't ask me to pay for the pills or the baby.

you aren't going to ever stop kids from having sex. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

The best you can do as adults is educate them and prepare them. Abstinance works but only on some. there are those that are going to do whatever. Thats who this is targeted at.

I would rather give those few girls birth control then worry about her having kids she can not support.

of course there should also be classes telling the risk of sex (stds, and kids).

Don't forget you're talking to someone who's still young enough to know everything

Actually, I got lots of gray hairs

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

But but i was told if you touch yourself you get hairy palms... That and kissing girls is how they have babies. Right... RIGHT!!!

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: aircooled

Originally posted by: moshquerade

When you were in Middle School did you know of any classmates having sex?

Yes.
And my daughter (who is now in high school) knows of many girls at school that started having sex in middle school.

Well in that case it seems a better idea than an unplanned pregnancy or a termination. I just hope they lay it on thick with the STD message.

My first girl was in Elementary school, and it was her idea. Before that I had girls take their cloths off for me, kiss, etc?

I love all the outrage when schools step up but before this parents turn a blind eye. If parents did their job then schools would not have to. I guess all those pro-republican ?don?t have sex..? sex ed classes are not helping. Its called nature. Keep trying to fight it by being bad parents and you end up with schools that have to do YOUR job.

If anyone, be it a teacher, principal, nurse, school doc etc.., gives my pre-teen daughter drugs or hormones without my expressed knowledge and consent my "parenting skills" will be the least of their concern.

Schools already try to force parents to give their kids amphetamines and other mind altering drugs. Now they want to be able to give them hormones without even telling the parents??? If you want to give a school the ability to provide drugs to your 12 year old without your consent or knowledge then thats your business. When it comes to my daughter, over my dead body.


With that said, when my daughter reaches that age we will definitely discuss the options with her doctor and my wife and I will decide if it is safe and appropriate for my child to take.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
But tell me this: If you know that you are not going to have sex with your GF, that you know you both will avoid it till marriage, and that you therefore know that your GF is not going to be having sex, should she be forced to take birth control pills?

I'll tell you this: teenage boys are not to be trusted.
And no matter what, that's a discussion for the family members, not outsiders.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

I'm not saying it is evil in of itself. But just flippantly having sex isn't good. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. Heck if everyone abided by that and only had sex in marriage we wouldn't have these problems with STDs and AIDS and such.

But then asking people to have self-control is just too much isn't it....

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Citrix
I have a huge problem with the school giving out prescription drugs to my kid who is a minor and not telling me much less asking me.

that i agree with.

thanks. to me that is the issue, i don't know how the school can get away providing prescription drugs to kids and not even get the consent of their parent or guardian, hell at my girls middle school the nurse has to call when a kid comes into the nurses station for a headache and want to give the kid a Tylenol. Giving kids BC pills seem illegal to me and why is it any of the schools business anyway?

for the record i have no problems with providing rubbers. but i draw the line at pushing pills what drug is next on the list that the school will decide to push on your kid?

 

[maddogchen]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: aircooled

Originally posted by: moshquerade

When you were in Middle School did you know of any classmates having sex?

Yes.
And my daughter (who is now in high school) knows of many girls at school that started having sex in middle school.

Well in that case it seems a better idea than an unplanned pregnancy or a termination. I just hope they lay it on thick with the STD message.

My first girl was in Elementary school, and it was her idea. Before that I had girls take their cloths off for me, kiss, etc?

I love all the outrage when schools step up but before this parents turn a blind eye. If parents did their job then schools would not have to. I guess all those pro-republican ?don?t have sex..? sex ed classes are not helping. Its called nature. Keep trying to fight it by being bad parents and you end up with schools that have to do YOUR job.

elementary school? you diddled a girl in 5th grade? so you were like 10 years old?

She was 10 he was 35

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Only in certain things. I do realize that at times I can get a big head.. who doesn't?

At the same time, I know several forum members here that can kick my rear in advanced mathematics. I certainly don't try to contest that.

But tell me this: If you know that you are not going to have sex with your GF, that you know you both will avoid it till marriage, and that you therefore know that your GF is not going to be having sex, should she be forced to take birth control pills?

who is being forced?

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: aircooled

Originally posted by: moshquerade

When you were in Middle School did you know of any classmates having sex?

Yes.
And my daughter (who is now in high school) knows of many girls at school that started having sex in middle school.

Well in that case it seems a better idea than an unplanned pregnancy or a termination. I just hope they lay it on thick with the STD message.

My first girl was in Elementary school, and it was her idea. Before that I had girls take their cloths off for me, kiss, etc?

I love all the outrage when schools step up but before this parents turn a blind eye. If parents did their job then schools would not have to. I guess all those pro-republican ?don?t have sex..? sex ed classes are not helping. Its called nature. Keep trying to fight it by being bad parents and you end up with schools that have to do YOUR job.

If anyone, be it a teacher, principal, nurse, school doc etc.., gives my pre-teen daughter drugs or hormones without my expressed knowledge and consent my "parenting skills" will be the least of their concern.

Schools already try to force parents to give their kids amphetamines and other mind altering drugs. Now they want to be able to give them hormones without even telling the parents??? If you want to give a school the ability to provide drugs to your 12 year old without your consent or knowledge then thats your business. When it comes to my daughter, over my dead body.


With that said, when my daughter reaches that age we will definitely discuss the options with her doctor and my wife and I will decide if it is safe and appropriate for my child to take.

So you have sat her down and told her of sex, hormones, BC/condoms, etc... ? And if she asked for BC you would take her to the doc and let them decide if she was old enough and able to take them safely?

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Again, I do get it, we just have different goals. I think this fostering and mentality of "Ok, you kids are gonna do this anyways, so we're going to make sure you're safe while you do it." is rediculous and will be more expensive as it becomes more and more mainstreamed. Far better it seems to me to keep it under the mentality of being scorned and wrong. Why? Because they have sex for the wrong reasons.

Yes, there will be some here who think, "Yeah, well who are you to say at what age sex is right or wrong?" To which I have no answer. However, what makes you think we should have to pay for it AT ALL? It's not the our fault nor my fault that the little 10 year old girl that lives down the street from me is a little slut who wants to get married just to get a few things and then divorce him. That came from the parents mentality. If you try to educate her otherwise I'd say you're doing all you effectively can.

What would be a better response? Try to educate her and change her mind? Or hand her a regiment of birth control pills and say "Have at it."?

I don't think paying anything to support these dispicable acts is going to help the situation. If they want to behave this way, let them. Just don't ask me to pay for the pills or the baby.

you aren't going to ever stop kids from having sex. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

The best you can do as adults is educate them and prepare them. Abstinance works but only on some. there are those that are going to do whatever. Thats who this is targeted at.

I would rather give those few girls birth control then worry about her having kids she can not support.

of course there should also be classes telling the risk of sex (stds, and kids).

Don't forget you're talking to someone who's still young enough to know everything

Haha, just what I was thinking over the course of this thread.

Ever heard of death and taxes coolness? The idea is to accept certain inevitabilities in life - one of them is that young people have sex, another is that when you're paying taxes someday a good part of that money will go towards welfare. I couldn't care less what your personal stance is on abstinence - it's irrelevant to the conversation (and is your loss ). What I do care about is what the majority of kids ARE doing and how that is going to affect me and the economy of my country. If you want to talk about moral decline in this country, I can't imagine anything to hasten it more than a populace with one parent, few prospects, and even less hope. I guess this combined with epidemics of HPV and HSV is why it's painfully obvious that safe sex needs to be a focal point in children's education. We teach them driver's safety after all.

All that soapbox stuff out of the way, I have no idea how I feel about the parental consent portion of it. If the parents' aren't doing the right thing to begin with, then how can we expect them to sign a consent form? At the same time, these are hormones, and how can you remove the right of a parent to protect the physical health of their child as they see fit? There are some weird gray areas in the law when it comes to a minor's ability to make these decisions for themselves.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

I'm not saying it is evil in of itself. But just flippantly having sex isn't good. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. Heck if everyone abided by that and only had sex in marriage we wouldn't have these problems with STDs and AIDS and such.

But then asking people to have self-control is just too much isn't it....

To be safe people should probably just stick to having sex to have kids. If it doesn't take after the first time, try once more down the road. When you are done with procreation, you're done sex.

But stupid thrill seekers can't think about what is right!

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

I'm not saying it is evil in of itself. But just flippantly having sex isn't good. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. Heck if everyone abided by that and only had sex in marriage we wouldn't have these problems with STDs and AIDS and such.

But then asking people to have self-control is just too much isn't it....

I'm glad you had the balls to say that. You have no idea the hell you just bombarded yourself with

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

I'm not saying it is evil in of itself. But just flippantly having sex isn't good. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. Heck if everyone abided by that and only had sex in marriage we wouldn't have these problems with STDs and AIDS and such.

But then asking people to have self-control is just too much isn't it....

To be safe people should probably just stick to having sex to have kids. If it doesn't take after the first time, try once more down the road. When you are done with procreation, you're done sex.

But stupid thrill seekers can't think about what is right!

Now you're going extreme the other way. Don't be silly. Absolutely nothing wrong with a married couple having sex for the thrill of it. Nothing. Kids happen to be a result sometimes of course But that isn't a bad thing either.

 

[Demo24]

yes it definitely happens. Although I was not much in the know back then I so dunno how far things really went. I do remember one girl in my class getting pregnant in the 6th grade. She kept it, and showed up in high school a few years later. That kid is probably 8 years old now, and their mother roughly 18. kind of sad

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
But tell me this: If you know that you are not going to have sex with your GF, that you know you both will avoid it till marriage, and that you therefore know that your GF is not going to be having sex, should she be forced to take birth control pills?

I'll tell you this: teenage boys are not to be trusted.
And no matter what, that's a discussion for the family members, not outsiders.

Certainly don't have to tell me that. I've told my GF that enough times and she gets tired of it

If I had a duaghter I would be more than happy to let the prospective BF share his opinions with me. It gives me the opportunity to judge his character.

I'm not sure what it is with the opinion of keeping prospective love lifes out of family matters and trying to push him to a small island. I would rather know his character than try to ignore he exists Especially knowing that my daughter may be having sex with him..

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
So, what, we want to encourage such behavior? :roll:

Brilliant...

Education and protection works. Teaching that sex is evil doesn't.

I'm not saying it is evil in of itself. But just flippantly having sex isn't good. Sex outside of marriage is wrong. Heck if everyone abided by that and only had sex in marriage we wouldn't have these problems with STDs and AIDS and such.

But then asking people to have self-control is just too much isn't it....

I'm glad you had the balls to say that. You have no idea the hell you just bombarded yourself with

Oh I know what I have done. This isn't the first time I've said that and it sure won't be the last I know that

And for those curious, yes I'm a virgin, and proud of it too. Shall remain so until I'm married. If I end up being single all my life (which I don't think I could handle really) then fine I'll be a virgin all my life.

 

[Xavier434]

First, I would like to say that my first GF and I lost our virginities in middle school and we also knew others just like us. So, it does happen for those who are skeptical.

Second, in regards to health hazards that birth control can have on young children, I can say that doctors do prescribe some of the pills that are out there to them. There are some pills which are not approved for people under a certain age. I know this because I know parents with kids at that age who are on the stuff. The pills that are approved to be prescribed require that the person undergo a set of tests to make sure that they will not be negatively effected by it. Regardless of whether you are an adult taking birth control or a kid in middle school, you are not supposed to do things while on it such as smoke. Also, everyone on it is supposed to be going through periodic testing (I don't know how often) in order to make sure that the birth control is not gradually causing problems. This is the reason for regular check ups, limited prescription refills, etc. It's common practice.





In the end, there are kids at this age having sex and nothing we have done thus far has ever stopped them. It happened 60 years ago, it happens now, and you can bet it will still happen after all of us kick the bucket. I like that we are giving them more options to prevent unwanted pregnancies. I know there are moral conflicts with that, but the way I see it is that the alternative is so much worse.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
When you were in Middle School did you know of any classmates having sex?

yep. Even know a girl who got pregnant in 8th grade and popped the kid out in 9th. Then again, she was truly the definition of trashy whore, but whatever. Funny that such thing exists before you can legally drive. lmao

others I would later find out that they started in middle school, either by choice, or some by basically non-choice (drunk and raped or very close to rape but technically not due to drunken consent)

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Only in certain things. I do realize that at times I can get a big head.. who doesn't?

At the same time, I know several forum members here that can kick my rear in advanced mathematics. I certainly don't try to contest that.

But tell me this: If you know that you are not going to have sex with your GF, that you know you both will avoid it till marriage, and that you therefore know that your GF is not going to be having sex, should she be forced to take birth control pills?

who is being forced?

My GF's mother was going to force her to take birth control meds at the threat of certain things etc. My GF came to me saying that since she had no plans of having sex before marriage she didn't want to be put on the pill as she hasn't finished developing and didn't want to tamper with it. So me and her talked it out and then went to her mother, who thankfully listened instead of ignoring me.

If I chose to only listen to people within my family, I'd be pretty stupid

No one ever learned anything by closing their sources.