Microstuttering, will it bother me?

[OVerLoRDI]

With the recent release of the 6950 and the really incredible crossfire gains AMD/ATi seem to be enjoying, I am considering going dual 6950s, but the only thing holding me back is the fear of microstuttering. I am that guy who notices when the framerate drops below 60fps or there is page tearing, so I am concerned that microstuttering will drive me insane.

Does it still afflict us on modern dual card setups? Is it detectable to the visually picky members of these forums? Thanks.

 

[RavenSEAL]

120Hz monitors are your friends.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

"Microstuttering, will it bother me?"

Only one way to find it. Many people have dual GPU setups and aren't complaining nor did I when I had 9800 GX2 so I doubt you'll have any issue. And I don't think 120hz monitors do anything for microstuttering.

 

[Meghan54]

120Hz monitors are your friends.

"Microstuttering, will it bother me?"

Only one way to find it. Many people have dual GPU setups and aren't complaining nor did I when I had 9800 GX2 so I doubt you'll have any issue. And I don't think 120hz monitors do anything for microstuttering.

You're right, a 120Hz monitor won't change how the ganged video cards work....microstuttering or not. Just another post by RavenSeal that shows misinformation from a youngster that thinks all knowledge resides in his head.....and it doesn't.


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[RavenSEAL]

You're right, a 120Hz monitor won't change how the ganged video cards work....microstuttering or not. Just another post by RavenSeal that shows misinformation from a youngster that thinks all knowledge resides in his head.....and it doesn't.

 

[adairusmc]

I have never even noticed it, and I have been using dual GPU cards from Nvidia and now ATI for a few years now. Never noticed it with my 9800GX2, 4870 tri fire, or my 5970 that I had.

 

[hawtdawg]

Having crossfire myself, if you have tripple buffering/vsync on, it's a non-issue.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Thanks for the input guys. Now I just need to figure out if it is actually worth it $ wise.

 

[thilanliyan]

6950 xfire is amazing performance wise and definitely beats any setup in that price range.

 

[nanaki333]

i've had ever dual gpu card since the 7950gx2 and the 7950 is probably the only card which i noticed any of those problems. i'm a huge fan of the fastest single CARD

 

[Smartazz]

Thanks for the input guys. Now I just need to figure out if it is actually worth it $ wise.

Definitely the setup to get if you are willing to fork over the money.

 

[Grooveriding]

I find microstutter to be highly game dependent. And yes vsync and triple buffering eliminates the issue, but if you're into online FPS, vsync is a no-go, even with triple-buffering imo.

I notice huge amounts of micro-stutter in World of Warcraft and it doesn't even properly use SLI, but if I disable one card it goes away. I also notice quite of bit of micro-stutter in Crysis in periods of rapid movement. You can really see micro-stutter in Crysis if you run the benchmark tool for the original using the gpu test.

That said, it's not that big an issue and the benefit of using two cards far outweighs microstutter imo.

The big thing to look at with multi-gpu is how well does that second or third card scale. And in the case of the 69XX series, nothing scales as well, so go for it :thumbsup:

 

[Smartazz]

I find microstutter to be highly game dependent. And yes vsync and triple buffering eliminates the issue, but if you're into online FPS, vsync is a no-go, even with triple-buffering imo.

I notice huge amounts of micro-stutter in World of Warcraft and it doesn't even properly use SLI, but if I disable one card it goes away. I also notice quite of bit of micro-stutter in Crysis in periods of rapid movement. You can really see micro-stutter in Crysis if you run the benchmark tool for the original using the gpu test.

That said, it's not that big an issue and the benefit of using two cards far outweighs microstutter imo.

The big thing to look at with multi-gpu is how well does that second or third card scale. And in the case of the 69XX series, nothing scales as well, so go for it :thumbsup:

Yeah, I tried using triple buffered vsync, but it bothered me in Left 4 Dead 2, so I don't use it. Screen tearing hardly bothers me anyway.

 

[rgallant]

-could the monitor be part of the micro-stutter as the same people that say they see it in different games see it, yet others don't with the same cards \ system\games don't see it- none state what monitors they use nor could you track the data , it would be a small sample.[high end 2ms vs low end 10ms panels]
-I think my self people turn the settings up too high for a said game\game patch\cards where if using the same settings on said games using a single card would be unplayable,

-so unplayable vs small stutter [if seen] seems sooooo hard to choose .

 

[BFG10K]

-could the monitor be part of the micro-stutter…

No, it’s solely related to the timing issues that arise from the use of AFR.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Having crossfire myself, if you have tripple buffering/vsync on, it's a non-issue.

Gross, even after anandtechs article I still have noticeable mouse lag in l4d with triple buffer vsync. Also not all games support it.

 

[digitaldurandal]

I wish people wouldn't post things they don't know about. I don't believe Raven knows what microstutter is. Please do not post advice to people on a subject unless you have experience.

I will say I have noticed microstutter in certain games, usually unoptimized games where even with two good gpus your frames are not that high - ie STALKER. I have not played metro with my new 570sli yet but I do have some fear of microstutter in the game. In the majority of games you will not have an issue.

 

[taltamir]

With the recent release of the 6950 and the really incredible crossfire gains AMD/ATi seem to be enjoying, I am considering going dual 6950s, but the only thing holding me back is the fear of microstuttering. I am that guy who notices when the framerate drops below 60fps or there is page tearing, so I am concerned that microstuttering will drive me insane.

Does it still afflict us on modern dual card setups? Is it detectable to the visually picky members of these forums? Thanks.

your title question is "will micro-stuttering bother me". You (probably) answer this question yourself by saying that you notice and are bothered by every tiny frame dip and tearing incidence. Nobody can really tell you if it will or wont, but it is a fair guess to say that you would if you are as sensitive as you describe yourself to be. To know for sure you need to test it by looking at games with and without micro-stutter to see if you can detect the difference.

You should have probably focused on the second question: "Does it still afflict us on modern dual card setups?"
That is a much better question.

Unfortunately, I cannot tell you if modern dual card setups have more micro-stuttering then single GPUs.
I can tell you that single GPU microstutter also exists (for different reasons that dual GPU microstutter) and is a real problem in some games/configurations. (it tends to be the result of sloppy coding. commonly found in console ports)

I explained how to impartially measure micro-stutter back in 2008 here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=200700
Since then FRAPS actually added a built in micro-stutter detection mechanism (I have no idea what it actually measures and how though).

I wish people wouldn't post things they don't know about. I don't believe Raven knows what microstutter is. Please do not post advice to people on a subject unless you have experience.

if people do not post about things they don't know about, how will they ever learn?
What specifically makes you think the OP doesn't know what he is talking about?

 

[digitaldurandal]

your title question is "will micro-stuttering bother me". You answer this question yourself by saying that you notice and are bothered by every tiny frame dip and tearing incidence. Nobody can really tell you if it will or wont, but it is a fair guess to say that you would if you are as sensitive as you describe yourself to be.

You should have titled this thread with the second question, the actual question you ask and do not answer for yourself...
"Does it still afflict us on modern dual card setups?"

That is a much better question. I suggest you edit the thread title and your first post to focus on this.
Unfortunately, I cannot tell you if modern dual card setups have more micro-stuttering then single GPUs.
I can tell you that single GPU microstutter also exists (for different reasons that dual GPU microstutter) and is a real problem in some games/configurations. (it tends to be the result of sloppy coding. commonly found in console ports)

I explained how to impartially measure micro-stutter back in 2008 here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=200700
Since then FRAPS actually added a built in micro-stutter detection mechanism (I have no idea what it actually measures and how though).



if people do not post about things they don't know about, how will they ever learn?
What specifically makes you think the OP doesn't know what he is talking about?

Who said anything about the OP? Please reread my post - I specify who I am talking about. Once again..

 

[taltamir]

Who said anything about the OP? Please reread my post - I specify who I am talking about. Once again..

my mistake, I confused their names.
I imagine you say he doesn't know what micro-stutter is because he thinks a 120Hz monitor will help?

Anyways, people who are wrong, by definition don't know that they are wrong, therefore they cannot know not to give wrong advice, because they think their advice is correct.

I agree that it is incorrect to think that a 120Hz monitor would ever help micro-stutter.

 

[dust]

I find microstutter to be highly game dependent. And yes vsync and triple buffering eliminates the issue, but if you're into online FPS, vsync is a no-go, even with triple-buffering imo.

I notice huge amounts of micro-stutter in World of Warcraft and it doesn't even properly use SLI, but if I disable one card it goes away. I also notice quite of bit of micro-stutter in Crysis in periods of rapid movement. You can really see micro-stutter in Crysis if you run the benchmark tool for the original using the gpu test.

That said, it's not that big an issue and the benefit of using two cards far outweighs microstutter imo.

The big thing to look at with multi-gpu is how well does that second or third card scale. And in the case of the 69XX series, nothing scales as well, so go for it :thumbsup:

^^ this.

I also experienced it in Warhead, Stalker games, Metro(weird enough, only after the second install). I don't know about Warhead, but Stalker games are very buggy, even though they released like ten patches for the first two and Metro has also its' portion of crap coding.

...still, great games

I'm also considering the 6950's for an upgrade, but I think my processor might hold them back somewhat.

 

[digitaldurandal]

my mistake, I confused their names.
I imagine you say he doesn't know what micro-stutter is because he thinks a 120Hz monitor will help?

Anyways, people who are wrong, by definition don't know that they are wrong, therefore they cannot know not to give wrong advice, because they think their advice is correct.

I agree that it is incorrect to think that a 120Hz monitor would ever help micro-stutter.

I understand your statement, but take into account - I find it likely he doesn't know what it is at all. That he likely made an assertion through reading forums and likely has no experience on the issue. Perhaps never even using a dual card configuration ever in his life, but found it prudent to post advice on the topic here - it spreads FUD.

 

[digitaldurandal]

^^ this.

I also experienced it in Warhead, Stalker games, Metro(weird enough, only after the second install). I don't know about Warhead, but Stalker games are very buggy, even though they released like ten patches for the first two and Metro has also its' portion of crap coding.

...still, great games

I'm also considering the 6950's for an upgrade, but I think my processor might hold them back somewhat.

All games where your framerates are still relatively low for a dual card configuration. This is the downside of dual cards - you'll notice the varying latency between AFR when your frame rates drop too low. The higher your frame rate the less likely there is noticeable latency because each card is churning them out so quickly.

I do not notice it in black ops, dragon age, or mafia 2

 

[dust]

All games where your framerates are still relatively low for a dual card configuration. This is the downside of dual cards - you'll notice the varying latency between AFR when your frame rates drop too low. The higher your frame rate the less likely there is noticeable latency because each card is churning them out so quickly.

I do not notice it in black ops, dragon age, or mafia 2

What's the excuse for the first Stalker then? The frame rate is averaging at 130-140 IIRC, if FRAPS isn't BSing me.

 

[Jhatfie]

I have been running dual 5850's running 5760x1200 for about 9 months and I have never noticed microstutter in the games that I play like Metro 2033, Battlefield BC2, WoW, Dirt 2, etc. I think that potentially some people are more sensitive to it than others or potentially there are other configuration issues at hand that exaggerate such an effect for certain hardware configurations?