Microsoft to cash in digital camera biz: collecting royalies on flash memory!

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: dolph
phil has a point: they could just sell them unformatted

but wouldn't the camera have to format the memory?? So then MS just charges the makers of the cameras right??

either way MS will get their money it sounds like.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,125
2,466
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Originally posted by: dolph
phil has a point: they could just sell them unformatted

You and Phil go way back eh? ;) I was checking out this site deciding whether or not to buy the Cannon A70 (I did) and read this.

Unfortunately requiring users to format their CF cards might be too much for some. I was at best buy today and this kid (18 or 19) was returning a video card he couldnt intsall (mx400 i think). He couldnt do it and was shocked at the $50 fee BB wanted to it for him. He said "$50 my ass!". I was going to try to explain to him how to do it, but he didnt seem like the type that would understand.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,886
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They have a patent on FAT. If YOU had the patent, you better believe you'd be cashing in on it. So why blame them?


 

Keego

Diamond Member
Aug 15, 2000
6,223
2
81
Originally posted by: Amused
They have a patent on FAT. If YOU had the patent, you better believe you'd be cashing in on it. So why blame them?

exactly. I don't see anyone keeping them from using a different proprietary filesystem.
 

TheToOTaLL

Platinum Member
Oct 7, 2001
2,246
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Originally posted by: Keego
Originally posted by: Amused
They have a patent on FAT. If YOU had the patent, you better believe you'd be cashing in on it. So why blame them?

exactly. I don't see anyone keeping them from using a different proprietary filesystem.

A different proprietary file system which Microsoft would have to support, because the flash memory manufacturers weren't sticklers about paying their fees.

I'm down with the idea of getting unformatted cards - don't most cameras have the ability to format them when used for the first time anyways?
 

z0mb13

Lifer
May 19, 2002
18,106
1
76
Originally posted by: Keego
Originally posted by: Amused
They have a patent on FAT. If YOU had the patent, you better believe you'd be cashing in on it. So why blame them?

exactly. I don't see anyone keeping them from using a different proprietary filesystem.

but different filesystems might not work with windows OS, right??

 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Originally posted by: dolph
phil has a point: they could just sell them unformatted

Even if it were that simple (which it may be), they would probably just pay the licensing fee just to avoid pissing off all the dumbass customers out there.

Customer: You sold me a dead card!
Sandisk tech: You need to format it.
Customer: Format? What's that?

The licensing fees proposed by Microsoft do not seem unreasonable at all, a camera + 3 flash cards would be a whole $1 in licensing fees.

IMO though the licensing fees should be solely for the camera, not the media. Nobody pays MS licensing fees on a new hard drive, and nobody would because they don't necessarily have to use FAT - If they do use FAT they would have a (presumably) legal copy of Windows (obviously licensed to use FAT). Flash cards should be the same way, the licensing should be device specific, not media.

If the flash vendors insist on pre-formatting the cards then the above argument is obviously invalid.

Viper GTS
 

bleeb

Lifer
Feb 3, 2000
10,868
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This is just another ploy to steal more money from consumers, Don't Buy M$ products! So that M$ employees can live the lavish lifestyle and have expensive BMWs while everyone else is struggling to live in this economy.
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
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if the digital camera biz decides to use an open source file system, MS will get nothing

 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
11,169
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How long do you think it will take Sandisk or Lexar to hit up 1 million flash cards?

$250K is a drop in the bucket. I'm surprsied it'[s not more than that.
 

PowerMac4Ever

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
5,246
0
0
Originally posted by: bleeb
This is just another ploy to steal more money from consumers, Don't Buy M$ products! So that M$ employees can live the lavish lifestyle and have expensive BMWs while everyone else is struggling to live in this economy.
ok lenin
 

ggavinmoss

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2001
4,798
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Originally posted by: bleeb
This is just another ploy to steal more money from consumers, Don't Buy M$ products! So that M$ employees can live the lavish lifestyle and have expensive BMWs while everyone else is struggling to live in this economy.

Get a grip.

-geoff
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
30,125
2,466
126
Originally posted by: ggavinmoss
Originally posted by: bleeb
This is just another ploy to steal more money from consumers, Don't Buy M$ products! So that M$ employees can live the lavish lifestyle and have expensive BMWs while everyone else is struggling to live in this economy.

Get a grip.

-geoff

Perhaps he was exaggerating.
 

NogginBoink

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
5,322
0
0
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: dolph
phil has a point: they could just sell them unformatted

but wouldn't the camera have to format the memory?? So then MS just charges the makers of the cameras right??

either way MS will get their money it sounds like.

No, only preformatted media is subject to the royalties, not the camera that uses the filesystem. (At least that's how I read it.)

Since most cameras automatically format the media (or prompt you to) when inserted, yes, the vendors could just sell 'em unformatted.

Or, since it's only $0.25 per flash card, they could jack up the price by a quarter. Less, if they make more than a million of 'em a year.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,886
17,798
146
Originally posted by: bleeb
This is just another ploy to steal more money from consumers, Don't Buy M$ products! So that M$ employees can live the lavish lifestyle and have expensive BMWs while everyone else is struggling to live in this economy.

Crap. You have NO right to the intellectual property of others. And MS has EVERY right to charge what they please for their products and patents.

It is NOT "stealing" to charge whatever you please for YOUR product.

The only point you have correct here is don't buy MS products if you don't like them.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,512
22
81
Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Originally posted by: dolph
phil has a point: they could just sell them unformatted

You and Phil go way back eh? ;) I was checking out this site deciding whether or not to buy the Cannon A70 (I did) and read this.

Unfortunately requiring users to format their CF cards might be too much for some. I was at best buy today and this kid (18 or 19) was returning a video card he couldnt intsall (mx400 i think). He couldnt do it and was shocked at the $50 fee BB wanted to it for him. He said "$50 my ass!". I was going to try to explain to him how to do it, but he didnt seem like the type that would understand.
Just have the camera automatically format the cards if they are unformatted.

ZV
 

Wozster

Senior member
Feb 12, 2001
386
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
They have a patent on FAT. If YOU had the patent, you better believe you'd be cashing in on it. So why blame them?

[COUGH]
***bull$hit***
[/COUGH]

This is called a "submarine patent".

They let everyone think that the technology is free to use, then once the entire world is using it (twenty years later) they try to cash in on it.

More info here
 

CTho9305

Elite Member
Jul 26, 2000
9,214
1
81
Originally posted by: Wozster
Originally posted by: Amused
They have a patent on FAT. If YOU had the patent, you better believe you'd be cashing in on it. So why blame them?

[COUGH]
***bull$hit***
[/COUGH]

This is called a "submarine patent".

They let everyone think that the technology is free to use, then once the entire world is using it (twenty years later) they try to cash in on it.

More info here

Read your own freaking articles. The patent has to do with LONG FILENAMES. Those aren't 20 years old.
 

This will just drive up costs for the consumer.
Thanks MS!.
rolleye.gif
 

Wozster

Senior member
Feb 12, 2001
386
0
0
Read your own freaking articles. The patent has to do with LONG FILENAMES. Those aren't 20 years old.

It's still a submarine patent; they never lead anyone to believe that you'd have to pay a quarter per unit to use long filenames.

Side note:
I got an SD card from Crucial the other day and there was a bright pink note in the package that said the card was not pre-formatted and that I'd have to format it myself.
So it appears that MSFT DID warn the OEM's in advance that they'd be doing this.