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Microsoft Reacts to Limitations of US Immigration

Stunt

Diamond Member
This is just the beginning as Americans feel threatened by immigrants; the same people who have helped create the nation they are so blindly patriotic about. The center will start with 200 people by the end of the year, but will have the ablity to expand using people from Canada (Microsoft hires many Canadians who go south), India, Russia, and China.

Just look at the household income by race: Asian ($57,500), White ($49,000), Hispanic ($34,000), Black ($30,000). It's obvious that there are highly skilled immigrants who have come to the US and are successful; paying taxes and adding productivity.

I'm glad Canada was able to take advantage of this major US weakness. I welcome the highly skilled workers.

Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) Latest News about Microsoft will open a software development center in Canada by the end of the year, a move that will enable the software giant to hire more foreign workers without running up against the limitations of U.S. immigration law.

The center will be located in Vancouver, British Columbia, less than three hours away from Microsoft's headquarters in Redmond, Wash.

The company is expected to hire about 200 people for the center at first, with significant room for expansion. Microsoft already employs about 900 people across Canada, but most are involved in sales Email Marketing Software - Free Demo and support functions.

While the new center will let Microsoft tap into local talent in the city of Vancouver to help develop new software products, it will also offer the added benefit of allowing it "to continue to recruit and retain highly skilled people affected by the immigration issues in the U.S.," the company said.

Microsoft cofounder and Chairman Bill Gates has been among the most outspoken critics of the current limits on foreign workers who can enter the country. Gates has repeatedly pressed lawmakers to raise the cap on the number of so-called H-1B visas, which are given out to "highly skilled" workers.

A bill that would have raised the current cap of 65,000 visas each year -- part of a sweeping immigration reform measure -- failed to gain enough votes to stay alive in the U.S. Senate last week, dashing hopes that more workers would be let into the U.S. in the near term.
Brain Drain

With the Canadian site, Microsoft would be able to hire software engineers and other technology talent from places such as India, Pakistan, Russia and China without putting a dent in the allotment of visas it can use to employ people at its headquarters. Canadian immigration law contains no limits on how many foreign workers can enter the country and the path to citizenship is generally seen as easier than in the U.S.

"Microsoft is a global company, and our greatest asset is smart, talented, highly skilled people," said S. Somasegar, corporate vice president of the developer division at the software giant. "Our goal as a company is to attract the next generation of leading software developers from all parts of the world, and this center will be a beacon for some of that talent," he said.

At home in the U.S., Microsoft is fighting with rivals such as Google (Nasdaq: GOOG) Latest News about Google as well as a growing number of software-related startups for the most qualified software engineers. Always in demand, such skilled workers have become scarce, and the annual quota of visas that allow non-resident workers to stay in the U.S. to work is rapidly exhausted.

While the Microsoft move appears to be a sound business decision based on more than just immigration, U.S. businesses are clearly being forced to evaluate their options, said Angelo Paparelli, managing partner of immigration law firm Paparelli & Partners and president of the Academy of Business Immigration Lawyers.

"The U.S. is simply becoming inhospitable to immigration by qualified workers," Paparelli told the E-Commerce Times. "What American businesses want from an immigration system Manage remotely with one interface -- the HP ProLiant DL360 G5 server. is for it to be orderly, predictable and for there to be a reasonable supply of worker visas. I see a wide variety of multinationals based in the U.S. evaluating their options now."

This year's entire allotment of H-1B visas was exhausted on the first day of the federal fiscal year in October. Meanwhile, larger demographic trends, including the looming retirement of the baby boomer generation, are going to further fuel the worker shortage.

Paparelli cited an incident earlier in the week in which two agencies that share responsibility for overseeing legal immigration openly feuded over a batch of visa applications, leaving thousands of high-achieving workers and students in a state of limbo as a result.
Tip of the Iceberg

The H-1B program and other pathways for workers to stay in the states have been caught up in the larger debate. "Legal and illegal immigration definitely have become interwoven," Paparelli added.

Phil Bond, CEO of the Information Technology Association of America, remains hopeful that a separate H-1B compromise can be worked out now that the comprehensive immigration reform bill has been stymied. Tech firms need access to talent in order to continue to growth the country's economy, Bond said.

"As things stand now, our own immigration system is restricting America's ability to compete, to grow and to prosper," Bond told the E-Commerce Times. "Congress has to find a way to remove this choke hold."

While few companies have Microsoft's resources to establish new development centers -- the company has also formed similar centers for software work in Boston on the East Coast and in Bellevue, Wash., across the state from Redmond, as well as international cites in Ireland and India -- others may be forced to consider overseas locations in order to find the talent they need to continue to grow, said Bond.
source
 
The US limits on skilled foreign immigrants are a disgusting travesty. They hurt American companies which Republicans claim to love so much, and serve no purpose except xenophobia. We may not have any Indian computer nerds, but at least we're White, Christian, and committed to making war to fight Terrar!
 
In the future Canada will now be blamed for:

1) Crappy OS'es
2) Buggy software
3) Security holes in the pipes of the Internet that threatens to drown us all in lost E-Mails :Q:Q

😀😀

Not that BC and Vancouver needs more Jobs(already short 10's of thousands of workers), but the more the merrier. Especially in High Tech, although even that sector is already very large here.

Welcome Bill!
 
Canada got high tech high skill workers, we got low skill workers for farming & home builders.

Future sounds good!
 
Why not just build a design center in India, China, and Russia if you want to employ workers from those countries?
 
Originally posted by: Termagant
The US limits on skilled foreign immigrants are a disgusting travesty. They hurt American companies which Republicans claim to love so much, and serve no purpose except xenophobia. We may not have any Indian computer nerds, but at least we're White, Christian, and committed to making war to fight Terrar!

When Indians and other Asian professionals are willing to do the same work I do, only working for a near poverty wage, I have a problem with it. I understand barely scraping by in an apartment here in America might be nice compared to where they came from, but we expect a little more here in America.
 
Actually a high influx of low skilled workers just makes the USA more ignorant.

Also the more highly skilled people we import from other countries the less need there is to education people in the USA. Instead we should be focused on the education system to create more skilled technical employees. However, these people can not get jobs because companies will only hire employees with H1B visas. Then the more H1B visas we allow the lower the need to educate our own people. I call this the Dummifying of America Cycle.
 
On education: Kind of makes you wonder where all the money went when Bush doubled education funding in the US.
 
Originally posted by: Stunt
On education: Kind of makes you wonder where all the money went when Bush doubled education funding in the US.

The same black hole that most of the other education dollars go. The highest funded school districts in the country prove this. You could get a better education in a one room schoolhouse back in 1950 than you could in a highly funded inner city school system.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
Actually a high influx of low skilled workers just makes the USA more ignorant.

Also the more highly skilled people we import from other countries the less need there is to education people in the USA. Instead we should be focused on the education system to create more skilled technical employees. However, these people can not get jobs because companies will only hire employees with H1B visas. Then the more H1B visas we allow the lower the need to educate our own people. I call this the Dummifying of America Cycle.

IMO, highly skilled workers create jobs and the US can use as many of them as they can get their hands on. Letting the uneducated, illegals that can only speak a few words of English come across the border in droves, bogging down our resources is what I would call the "Dummifying of America".

What we need is a different immigration policy to let more highly skilled workers into the US with a clear path to citizenship.
 
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Originally posted by: Termagant
The US limits on skilled foreign immigrants are a disgusting travesty. They hurt American companies which Republicans claim to love so much, and serve no purpose except xenophobia. We may not have any Indian computer nerds, but at least we're White, Christian, and committed to making war to fight Terrar!

When Indians and other Asian professionals are willing to do the same work I do, only working for a near poverty wage, I have a problem with it. I understand barely scraping by in an apartment here in America might be nice compared to where they came from, but we expect a little more here in America.

Give me a break, how many highly skilled Indians and Asians do you know who work for 6 bucks an hour?

These people come with bachelors but more often MBAs or higher degree's and earn high paying positions. The travesty isnt that we are allowing these people into our country to fill positions our labor market cant fill. The travesty is that we highly restrict them while allowing low wage, low skill workers to freely flow across our borders and hurt our bottom ring of workers by driving those wages down.

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Originally posted by: Termagant
The US limits on skilled foreign immigrants are a disgusting travesty. They hurt American companies which Republicans claim to love so much, and serve no purpose except xenophobia. We may not have any Indian computer nerds, but at least we're White, Christian, and committed to making war to fight Terrar!

When Indians and other Asian professionals are willing to do the same work I do, only working for a near poverty wage, I have a problem with it. I understand barely scraping by in an apartment here in America might be nice compared to where they came from, but we expect a little more here in America.

Give me a break, how many highly skilled Indians and Asians do you know who work for 6 bucks an hour?

These people come with bachelors but more often MBAs or higher degree's and earn high paying positions. The travesty isnt that we are allowing these people into our country to fill positions our labor market cant fill. The travesty is that we highly restrict them while allowing low wage, low skill workers to freely flow across our borders and hurt our bottom ring of workers by driving those wages down.


I have run into many highly skilled Indians and Asians on H1-B'S that make HALF my salary for doing the same work. I think this is more about the work visa program than the people themselves, although I dont doubt they are willing to work for less simply because they dont take for granted what we do. I guess they just put up with it until they get permanent residency, as they have little choice.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Immigrants are fine. Just not indentured servants from the H1B visa program.

I agree. I wouldn't mind H1B program if their immigration status wasn't tied to their job.
As it stands now, companies actually prefer H1B workers over Americans because the H1Bs generally can't leave until they get their green card, which takes forever, or they have to start over. Our immigration law should not create employer preference for foreign workers, or pressure foreign workers to stay at same job.
 
Originally posted by: Termagant
The US limits on skilled foreign immigrants are a disgusting travesty. They hurt American companies which Republicans claim to love so much, and serve no purpose except xenophobia. We may not have any Indian computer nerds, but at least we're White, Christian, and committed to making war to fight Terrar!

You seem to imply that the Repubs are opposed to expanding limits for the immigration of skilled workers?

If so, I think you're incorrect. In the recent Immigration Reform Bill it was the Dems who opposed the section expanding such immigration. Obama himself propsed (and was passed) an amendment which eliminated that provision (expansion of skilled immigrants). The unions oppose it for some reason.

Likewise it was the Dems who opposed the new "points system" for immigration priority. The new points system favored educated, skilled workers who had English proficiency. The Dems opposed it and wanted it to remain based on family ties etc.

Fern
 
So Democrats were the ones to kill H1B expansion. Looks like my check will be heading out to DNC after all.
For some reason I thought that both Republicans and Democrats supported expanding H1B, but thanks for clearing it up.
 
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Originally posted by: Termagant
The US limits on skilled foreign immigrants are a disgusting travesty. They hurt American companies which Republicans claim to love so much, and serve no purpose except xenophobia. We may not have any Indian computer nerds, but at least we're White, Christian, and committed to making war to fight Terrar!

When Indians and other Asian professionals are willing to do the same work I do, only working for a near poverty wage, I have a problem with it. I understand barely scraping by in an apartment here in America might be nice compared to where they came from, but we expect a little more here in America.

Give me a break, how many highly skilled Indians and Asians do you know who work for 6 bucks an hour?

These people come with bachelors but more often MBAs or higher degree's and earn high paying positions. The travesty isnt that we are allowing these people into our country to fill positions our labor market cant fill. The travesty is that we highly restrict them while allowing low wage, low skill workers to freely flow across our borders and hurt our bottom ring of workers by driving those wages down.


I have run into many highly skilled Indians and Asians on H1-B'S that make HALF my salary for doing the same work. I think this is more about the work visa program than the people themselves, although I dont doubt they are willing to work for less simply because they dont take for granted what we do. I guess they just put up with it until they get permanent residency, as they have little choice.

Yes, but this isn't true in all cases. All of the big 5 pay the SAME EXACT amount of money whether you need a visa or don't. It is REALLY sad to see people come to the U.S for our awesome education system, and then be forced back to their own countries because they cannot get get a visa. What a great way to export our KNOWLEDGE which is the greatest asset we have in this country. Knowledge = power. 20 years down the line American will be bitching about how most of the new technologies are NOT coming from America... I will wonder ' where did all the brilliant minds go ' ?
 
On a side note I was at a website the other day for Excel Pivot tables and the Author of the book was a Canadian. The book seemed to be very good. There are probably a lot of highly qualified software developers in Canada.
 
Originally posted by: piasabird
On a side note I was at a website the other day for Excel Pivot tables and the Author of the book was a Canadian. The book seemed to be very good. There are probably a lot of highly qualified software developers in Canada.

Yup, the largest Video Game Industry in the world.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Immigrants are fine. Just not indentured servants from the H1B visa program.

I agree. I wouldn't mind H1B program if their immigration status wasn't tied to their job.
As it stands now, companies actually prefer H1B workers over Americans because the H1Bs generally can't leave until they get their green card, which takes forever, or they have to start over. Our immigration law should not create employer preference for foreign workers, or pressure foreign workers to stay at same job.

Well, a little off. They can leave anytime they want. It's just getting back into the country thats an issue.

And green cards? There are two types. The first one is a 2 year, the 2nd one is a 10 year. They dont take long at all. My wife's got approved in less than 6 months, and I know many who had the same timetable. These long drawn out times I think are the exception.

But YMMV.
 
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: PingSpike
Immigrants are fine. Just not indentured servants from the H1B visa program.

I agree. I wouldn't mind H1B program if their immigration status wasn't tied to their job.
As it stands now, companies actually prefer H1B workers over Americans because the H1Bs generally can't leave until they get their green card, which takes forever, or they have to start over. Our immigration law should not create employer preference for foreign workers, or pressure foreign workers to stay at same job.

Well, a little off. They can leave anytime they want. It's just getting back into the country thats an issue.

And green cards? There are two types. The first one is a 2 year, the 2nd one is a 10 year. They dont take long at all. My wife's got approved in less than 6 months, and I know many who had the same timetable. These long drawn out times I think are the exception.

But YMMV.

It depends on the country of origin, and the type of visa. Marriage visa, family reunification, or refugee status is different from work visas. For work visas, each country gets a fixed number of green card slots. So someone from Russia may get a green card in no time, while someone from India or China will be waiting many many years simply because there are so many more people coming from those countries. And yes, you can leave the company, but then you have to start over in the immigration process. So the US immigration law is creating pressure on behalf of companies to have employees tied to the job. This would have to stop before I support expanding the program. As far as employees getting paid the same, it's because they bring down wages for everyone in their industries. Why would a company pay more to an American who can then leave and go somewhere else next year, if they can get a more "loyal" H1B visa worker who can't leave the company without negatively impacting his immigration status? I am all for people coming in and competing on equal footing, but I am against the companies having special leverage over foreign workers via the INS.
 
Originally posted by: senseamp
So Democrats were the ones to kill H1B expansion. Looks like my check will be heading out to DNC after all.
For some reason I thought that both Republicans and Democrats supported expanding H1B, but thanks for clearing it up.

Odd that the democrats want to kill H1B expansion for educated workers, but seem to have no problem with millions of uneducated 3rd world Mexicans flooding across the border and using our social services. I'm sure it would have nothing to do with their likely voting preference....
 
Further Offshoring is definitely a possibility.

That's why the solution has to be an increase in the tariffs on imported goods, services, and software to the point where it makes more sense to hire the Americans to do the work.

I don't see why it should come as any surprise that the restriction or elimination (or limit on expansion) of the H-1B and L-1 visa programs would result in the work being offshored. It's all the same phenomenon--global labor arbitrage.

The wealth of 2.4 billion relatively impoverished Indians and Chinese, many of whom are obtaining college educations, plus the wealth of 300 million middle class Americans divided by 2.7 billion people equals...? You do the math.

Of course, wealth does not exist in static quantities and first has to be created before it can be begged, stolen, or protected. However, it could take over one hundred years to produce the amount of capital needed to create enough wealth to allow 3 billion people to live an American middle class lifestyle, especially when the economic policies of India and China might be inhibiting their own internal economic growth.
 
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
Originally posted by: senseamp
So Democrats were the ones to kill H1B expansion. Looks like my check will be heading out to DNC after all.
For some reason I thought that both Republicans and Democrats supported expanding H1B, but thanks for clearing it up.

Odd that the democrats want to kill H1B expansion for educated workers, but seem to have no problem with millions of uneducated 3rd world Mexicans flooding across the border and using our social services. I'm sure it would have nothing to do with their likely voting preference....

Perhaps they want an easier path to citizenship for them?
 
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