Microsoft must give states Windows code, says judge
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Thats messed up.
Does Coke have to tell us the secret ingredient?
Does McDonald's tell us whats in the "special sauce"?
Both of those companies are #1 in their respective fields just like Microsoft.
Microsoft has a right to protect its intellectual interests.
It should be fair game.
If they can protect their interests, good for them.
If some one can figure it out on their own (like reverse engineering... ex. DeCSS)
then they should have protected it a little better.
However, the government should not put its nose in and interfere with
intellectual rights of private companies.
Does Coke have to tell us the secret ingredient?
Does McDonald's tell us whats in the "special sauce"?
Both of those companies are #1 in their respective fields just like Microsoft.
Microsoft has a right to protect its intellectual interests.
It should be fair game.
If they can protect their interests, good for them.
If some one can figure it out on their own (like reverse engineering... ex. DeCSS)
then they should have protected it a little better.
However, the government should not put its nose in and interfere with
intellectual rights of private companies.
I'm on Microsoft's side here, it really should be fair game, it's their intellectual property and they should have the right to keep it confidential, like mentioned above, we don't have to know all the indgredients in other products, such as Coke and McDonalds. But as we all know, MS will appeal this until they finally win, as always.
--Mark
--Mark
1. Coke secret ingredient: Potassium Benzoate
2. Special sauce: Snot, thousand island dressing, gelatin, citric acid (in that order)
3. Windows source code: int main() { send(personal_info, secret_ms_server); crash(); }
2. Special sauce: Snot, thousand island dressing, gelatin, citric acid (in that order)
3. Windows source code: int main() { send(personal_info, secret_ms_server); crash(); }
Damn, the government is hypocritical.
First, they let the MPAA sue the guys that made DeCSS cause it reveals encryption code for DVD software.
Then the try to force Microsoft to make its encrypted code public.
First, they let the MPAA sue the guys that made DeCSS cause it reveals encryption code for DVD software.
Then the try to force Microsoft to make its encrypted code public.
WIndows source code for 2k is about 50million lines. THose lawyers should be careful what they ask for, they just might get it.
Microsoft brought this on themselves do to their claims regarding the level of integration of IE.
Their defense was the IE was so integrated into the OS that it would be impossible to remove it and still have windows function.
All the states were asking was for their people to be able to evaluate the code to see if that was true or not. If MS hadn't made defense claims at the code level, no one would have been asking to look at it.
Unless you think its fair that a legal team can put on a defense and then prohibit the prosecution from investigating that defense.
Their defense was the IE was so integrated into the OS that it would be impossible to remove it and still have windows function.
All the states were asking was for their people to be able to evaluate the code to see if that was true or not. If MS hadn't made defense claims at the code level, no one would have been asking to look at it.
Unless you think its fair that a legal team can put on a defense and then prohibit the prosecution from investigating that defense.
I with Kilrsat on this one.
Although some kid did make a program that could remove IE pretty easily when that topic came up. Microsoft just claimed it couldn't
But yeah, you can't claim vague things about your source code then say "can't see it"
Although some kid did make a program that could remove IE pretty easily when that topic came up. Microsoft just claimed it couldn't
But yeah, you can't claim vague things about your source code then say "can't see it"
Well with 98lite you can remove IE, and suposidly the same will apply to win2k and XP. but why would you want to? It's a decent browser, Netscape installs and runs just fine, as do others. IE's handy during setup for windowsupdate amoung other things. With all the psycho's in the world, cant one or two of them shoot some lawyers for a change?
Exactly, MS used the supposed fact that IE cannot be remoevd from the OS when Netscape challenged them on it one of the court battles (possibly the antitrust, I don't remember). If they are going to use it for their defense, then that defense should be verified. I'm sorry to say to all you MS zealots, but that's pretty much the way the law system works, you have to back up your defense.
<< Does Coke have to tell us the secret ingredient? >>
nope, b/c there is no monopoly... Pepsi is almost as huge
and mcdonalds is huge, but no way a monopoly.
<< I'm on Microsoft's side here, it really should be fair game, it's their intellectual property and they should have the right to keep it confidential, like mentioned above, we don't have to know all the indgredients in other products, such as Coke and McDonalds. But as we all know, MS will appeal this until they finally win, as always.
--Mark >>
Chances are there will be a nice NDA waiting for the states that get the code.
<< Even if there is an NDA, I'm willing to bet someone has loose lips.
>>The code is out there already. There was a report a year or so ago of Russian hackers getting a hold of the "whistler" source code and possibly Office source code.
>>>WIndows source code for 2k is about 50million lines. THose lawyers should be careful what they ask for, they just might get it. <<<
Charrison is absolutely right. The states crying foul now have 3 weeks to prove there case. The say it is easy to remove components such as IE from the source code. Ok States, show us your wisdom.
This will blow up in the 9 states faces that refused to settle. Good call judge!
This whole thing should have been over a long time ago. Microsoft bashing is inmature and a waste of time. They have the OS 98% of computer users world wide use and are quite happy with. If you want to compete, build a better OS. Linux is, and even put out star office to compete with Win office. That is how you compete in our economy. Linus isn't using the courts to advance their product market share. What on earth do these States attorney generals hope to gain from this suit? a discount on OS and server products? Can anyone see any reason Microsoft should give any money to these states? What would the states do with money gained from a lawsuit? Do you really think the consumer living in those states would get any benifit? Do you really think those attorney generals are suing on behalf of anything other than their own pitiful egos? I know our Attorney general is doing it under pressure and payoffs from Novell,who is so entrenched in state systems, you couldn't pry them out with a crow bar. That is monopoly. Novell practically gives the liscense to there software away to government users. Thats why you hear crys from IT managers about the price of liscensing from Microsoft. novell gives it away 10cents on the dollar ,and Linux is free. Microsoft has the product everyone wants, but how dare they charge fair market prices for that? How un american.
Charrison is absolutely right. The states crying foul now have 3 weeks to prove there case. The say it is easy to remove components such as IE from the source code. Ok States, show us your wisdom.
This will blow up in the 9 states faces that refused to settle. Good call judge!
This whole thing should have been over a long time ago. Microsoft bashing is inmature and a waste of time. They have the OS 98% of computer users world wide use and are quite happy with. If you want to compete, build a better OS. Linux is, and even put out star office to compete with Win office. That is how you compete in our economy. Linus isn't using the courts to advance their product market share. What on earth do these States attorney generals hope to gain from this suit? a discount on OS and server products? Can anyone see any reason Microsoft should give any money to these states? What would the states do with money gained from a lawsuit? Do you really think the consumer living in those states would get any benifit? Do you really think those attorney generals are suing on behalf of anything other than their own pitiful egos? I know our Attorney general is doing it under pressure and payoffs from Novell,who is so entrenched in state systems, you couldn't pry them out with a crow bar. That is monopoly. Novell practically gives the liscense to there software away to government users. Thats why you hear crys from IT managers about the price of liscensing from Microsoft. novell gives it away 10cents on the dollar ,and Linux is free. Microsoft has the product everyone wants, but how dare they charge fair market prices for that? How un american.
<<
<< Does Coke have to tell us the secret ingredient? >>
nope, b/c there is no monopoly... Pepsi is almost as huge
and mcdonalds is huge, but no way a monopoly. >>
Pepsi is not near as big as Coke. And not as solvent, they have much higher debt to income ratios and hence will go out of business before Coke in rough times. We audited both of their financial statements in my account class a couple of years ago.
<< Microsoft has the product everyone wants, but how dare they charge fair market prices for that? How un american >>
Not everyone wants it. Also, they are a monopoly. Plain and simple. Why let them get away with it or let them benefit from it?
<<
<< Microsoft has the product everyone wants, but how dare they charge fair market prices for that? How un american >>
Not everyone wants it. Also, they are a monopoly. Plain and simple. Why let them get away with it or let them benefit from it? >>
With Linux gaining market share, you could argue that MS has less of a monopoly than people think. The state should not be able to make MS give up its source code unless the code was harmful, as in virus-like. Infecting and promulgating itself on systems with the sole purpose to do harm. That is nowehere near the case. MS has a good operating system that people are WILLING to pay for. The only problem I have ever had with MS is their using their market share to strong arm oem's, now that should be against the law.
Why MS is not a monopoly:
1) There is at least one other comparable product (many others actually)
2) The other products can serve the same functions as MS software can (desktop, server, pda, etc)
3) The competing company has not engaged in price fixing with MS (Linux doesn't charge, so their cannot be price fixing)
The fact is, you can run either Mac OS or the many versions of Linux or Unix and have a valid operating system, with all of the bells and whistles, for LESS (or free) than MS charges for theirs. Linux is MORE scaleable than MS OS, widely regarded as more stable, growing quickly with tons of free software, and its FREE. The only people that perpetuate the MS "monopoly" are system administrators and end users too lazy to learn a new OS, even if it would benefit them. MS should be applauded for making their OS cater to idiots, and as long as those idiots are willing to pay for it, the "monopoly" created should be attributed to them, not MS.
Whaaaa whaaa, MS shouldn't have to do this. Please.
This is legal matters people. MS made a claim in court that they couldn't seperate iexplorer from the OS without making it non-functional. The states want to verify that claim because I don't think taking MS's word for it is good legal policy when the states are sueing them. They aren't releasing the code to the public or anyone else, it's going to be reviewed by the states to verify MS's claim.
If MS perjured themselves to the court by claiming the seperation wasn't possible and the states verify it is relatively easy then MS is going to be in a world of hurt.
This is legal matters people. MS made a claim in court that they couldn't seperate iexplorer from the OS without making it non-functional. The states want to verify that claim because I don't think taking MS's word for it is good legal policy when the states are sueing them. They aren't releasing the code to the public or anyone else, it's going to be reviewed by the states to verify MS's claim.
If MS perjured themselves to the court by claiming the seperation wasn't possible and the states verify it is relatively easy then MS is going to be in a world of hurt.
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