Microsoft may bring back windows 7 style start menu in "Windows 8.2"

[blankslate]

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/125710-microsoft-reportedly-bringing-start-menu-back-in-windows-8-2

Microsoft is planning to bring back the Start menu with the launch of Windows 8.2, otherwise known by its "Threshold" codename internally at Microsoft, WinSuperSite reports. The return of the Start menu will be the first time since Windows 7.

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-81/microsoft-windows-big-changes-coming

First, Microsoft will be making it possible to run "Metro" mobile apps—which are typically run full-screen like other mobile apps—in floating windows on the desktop, allowing them to blend more seamlessly with desktop applications. And second, the firm is bringing back the Start menu for those who still pine for it, completely undoing the mess made with the original Windows 8, which replaced this menu with a full-screen Metro-style Start screen.

It hasn't been confirmed by MSFT itself as far as I know.

However, Paul Thurrott hasn't been one to report complete nonsense in the time I have been reading his site or watching him with Leo Laporte on twit.tv talking about Windows.

Considering that it seems like many technophiles are opting to install 3rd party applications to bring the start menu back for win 8 and win 8.1 it doesn't seem like this is too unlikely to happen.

Some people still do actually perform tasks on the computer that is better performed by user sitting at a desktop (or desktop replacement laptop) with a keyboard and mouse. Not as many as before but they haven't gone completely away either.

Maybe it'll turn out that this report is false, but I think Microsoft might be wanting to hang on to businesses with workers who might be put off by even the improved start screen in 8.1 and 8.2 would almost certainly come out before the support for windows 7 ends.

*edited 2 add*

If this report turns out to be accurate and I can use my Windows 8 key to activate "8.2" then I'll continue using Win7 a bit longer until win 8 comes out. Win 7 is fast enough and secure enough (barring any unforeseen even) for me at the moment.



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[hectorsm]

I'll be surprised if they bring back the start menu as an option at all. It will be the death of Metro on the desktop PC judging by how unpopular it is.

 

[blankslate]

I'll be surprised if they bring back the start menu as an option at all. It will be the death of Metro on the desktop PC judging by how unpopular it is.

I think that it's more likely that you think it is.

The head of the OS development department when Win 8 came out left MSFT a while ago and now the people who were his higher ranking personnel in that department are now gone also.

a half step in the direction suggested by the link was already made with 8.1

I don't think bringing the option back will mean the death of the metro ui.

There are people on this forum who have come to accept it and there are also children now who probably had as their first computer experience a tablet or phone and they may very well be quite happy to use Metro as their main interface on a desktop.



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[Ketchup]

I was helping a guy with some computer issues a couple weeks ago, and he had a new Lenovo laptop with 8. It has a touch screen, and the GUI makes SO much more sense this way. With a mouse, I would rather have a start menu.

 

[denis280]

It has a touch screen, and the GUI makes SO much more sense this way.

Dam right.

 

[postmortemIA]

if metro was not mandatory, they will not have so many people hating it; people who like it would use it, and rest of us would be happy with desktop.

 

[Imaginer]

And for those who are happy with the Metro/Modern UI solely for a desktop (yes I have two with 8.1 and no start menu aftermarket software), I won't switch back regardless if there was an option for a start menu.

I have adapted (for the better) to the start screen - with varying areas of organization, live information on some tiles, tile sizes, tile groupings, an encompassing list of "All Programs" like the start menu had (and in varying sortings, from alphabetical order, to installed date, to even most used - much like the old start menu did). I even went for the first time in desktop computing to clear my desktop, sans recycle bin, of any icons which was usually hidden behind any active windows, most of them taking full screen anyways as I do not need to have "widget windows" giving me information and can use multi monitors for secondary reference information and window gatherings.

Granted, the start menu had "recent used programs" right there in your face. It also had the Documents folder shortcut, Music folder shortcut, and "My Computer" which was automatically there in 8 and 8.1 with File Explorer on the taskbar. It also had a visual cue to Control Panel, but only to navigate menu of icons to things like Computer Management, Device Manager, etc (which I am glad in 8.1, right click gave power options).

Kudos for options for the less inclined. One thing I will definitely not miss is Aero GLASS. Aero is always been apart of Windows from Vista forward, but the blurry glass aspect annoyed me a bit, because window title names are not as readable. Transparency exists in 8 and 8.1 if you look closely at the taskbar. But otherwise, transparent window title bars are REALLY not needed. Neither was the sliding shuffle thing of ALT + TAB of Vista.

And the tiles are not much of a chore for pointer drag (trackball makes things quickly slide around like a breeze) but anything touch pointed related WILL ALWAYS be faster for these things. The start menu has less pointer drag - with traditional mouse usages. Not a surprise why many are annoyed. Again, I do not mind the old way or new, but I prefer the new way and wish people aren't so crusading on this aspect.

If anything, I am more peeved at the lack of Blu-ray options of 8's WMC versus 7's. But a Windows Media Center struggle amongst those who use it versus Microsoft is another battle and debate in itself.

 

[Mem]

if metro was not mandatory, they will not have so many people hating it; people who like it would use it, and rest of us would be happy with desktop.

In a way I'm glad the old start menu is gone,even if they did bring it back I would probably not use it,got use to the new way pretty quick on my desktop PC with good old mouse and keyboard(lets face its damn easy) and as we all know things change and move on,how long do they want to keep the old start menu for 30 ,40,50 years .

I would rather see another new UI revamp but as we all know half the users would moan again ,so again back to square one and so much for moving forward.

 

[Mushkins]

In a way I'm glad the old start menu is gone,even if they did bring it back I would probably not use it,got use to the new way pretty quick on my desktop PC with good old mouse and keyboard(lets face its damn easy) and as we all know things change and move on,how long do they want to keep the old start menu for 30 ,40,50 years .

I would rather see another new UI revamp but as we all know half the users would moan again ,so again back to square one and so much for moving forward.

The Metro Start is fine for most users once they get used to it. Where it *really* fails is getting into things like the control panel and other administrative tools. If you do any sort of IT work, you spend a lot of time in those menus, and the Win8 way even on the Win8 desktop is kludgy and obnoxious when compared to "click start, click control panel, do your job"

Try walking someone through getting to control panel on windows 8. "swipe in from the corner. No, the other corner. Did you swipe in the corner or from the side? Try it again. Did you click when you swiped?" It's a nightmare unless they're on a touchscreen, the swipe gestures are just awful with a mouse.

And not all things "change and move on." Good design is good design, and shouldn't be replaced with poor design just to "mix things up." Automobiles have used a steering wheel since 1886 and we havent seen a need to throw that baby out with the bathwater yet.

 

[bbhaag]

Or you could just right click on the start button and go up to control panel.....
Just sayin. That might be easier than the way you're suggesting.

 

[Mem]

The Metro Start is fine for most users once they get used to it. Where it *really* fails is getting into things like the control panel and other administrative tools. If you do any sort of IT work, you spend a lot of time in those menus, and the Win8 way even on the Win8 desktop is kludgy and obnoxious when compared to "click start, click control panel, do your job"

Try walking someone through getting to control panel on windows 8. "swipe in from the corner. No, the other corner. Did you swipe in the corner or from the side? Try it again. Did you click when you swiped?" It's a nightmare unless they're on a touchscreen, the swipe gestures are just awful with a mouse.

And not all things "change and move on." Good design is good design, and shouldn't be replaced with poor design just to "mix things up." Automobiles have used a steering wheel since 1886 and we havent seen a need to throw that baby out with the bathwater yet.

I don't buy the Control Panel argument,simple right click in bottom left corner(ie on start button) with mouse brings up Win+X menu and as you know CP is on there,you could also make your own shortcut on both Metro or old desktop , its also on Charms bar via settings again Win8 is quite customisable but a lot of people ignore even the basic right click in left corner on either Metro or old desktop UI,do they still need to be spoon fed?..How much more basic can they make it,I don't use touch unless you count my Android tablet.

 

[lxskllr]

Try walking someone through getting to control panel on windows 8. "swipe in from the corner. No, the other corner. Did you swipe in the corner or from the side? Try it again. Did you click when you swiped?" It's a nightmare unless they're on a touchscreen, the swipe gestures are just awful with a mouse.

Can't you just mousewheel scroll? I didn't use any swipe gestures when I was trialing Win8.

 

[postmortemIA]

Looks like some are not aware that windows 7 lets you have control panel as menu. So I don't have to open all cp items to pick one.

 

[Mem]

Looks like some are not aware that windows 7 lets you have control panel as menu. So I don't have to open all cp items to pick one.

So you want all the CP bloat and most users won't use everything within CP anyway(its also crap for touch users as well),no thanks!....Simple right click on left corner then selecting what I want is good enough unless you are very lazy.


Besides as I stated Win8 is easy to customise and keyboard search is pretty good if you are one of those users that can't find something.

 

[Imaginer]

Try walking someone through getting to control panel on windows 8. "swipe in from the corner. No, the other corner. Did you swipe in the corner or from the side? Try it again. Did you click when you swiped?" It's a nightmare unless they're on a touchscreen, the swipe gestures are just awful with a mouse.

And you have to be careful what is active on the dominant screen where the cursor is. Are they in an app? Are they in the Start screen? Are they on the desktop? Those change what Settings do in the charm bar. More observant users will notice this. But the regular users who are used to a more "stricter" straight forward interface will complain very hard.

It may also make troubleshooting more descriptive and verbose in verbal communication discipline, on the end of the person troubleshooting. Something that I feel tech help can lack and can be vague at sometimes.

And one of the things I said in the 8.1 opinion thread, I am glad the right click on the Start icon (or Win + X) gives all admin and setting options no matter what is active on screen.

And not all things "change and move on." Good design is good design, and shouldn't be replaced with poor design just to "mix things up." Automobiles have used a steering wheel since 1886 and we havent seen a need to throw that baby out with the bathwater yet.

Never did say that 8.1 is perfect. But it is good enough for the circumstances. 8.2 would give users back things should they want it and options are a good thing. It also means that with 8 variants going forward, it means both new and old are moving forward, on old and new devices alike.

Besides, the good thing about an encompassing Store is that it shows desktop software that are used if software wants to be listed and newer "apps". Desktop application options usually direct to an official website for more information on how to procure. (Microsoft tried this before with the Windows Marketplace in the trail edges of XP and beginning of Vista days) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_locker

If Microsoft fully wants to tie OS areas, Windows Phone 8 and later better give native File Explorer and manipulation of such. Of course, it may add another layer of overhead (namely in security) and possible conflicts with carriers. I could say the same with Xbox in managing media too. It was sort of handled in a way with Windows 8/RT when you used Modern/Metro IE to open and search for files to upload - for example.

I would like to see (even though it maybe redundant with desktop PC usage) an expanded Modern File Explorer, the top swipe bars being of the file search, ribbon interface. The side charm bar Settings holds the settings of Modern/Metro File Manager. The icons can be shown as previews, tiles, etc. Upon selecting, the bottom swipe bar can show what you can do with the file. There are many third party apps, but still limited and disjointed. This should be one of the things that is apart of the Modern/Metro UI - not as a third party afterthought.

 

[sm625]

in windows 7 I just type what I want, I never bother with control panel because it takes too long to go through all that crap. To get to power options you just type "pow" and the list of options narrows down to just a few. To get to windows update you just type "upd" and again the list of options narrows down to something you can process instantly. To get to network connections you type "net", etc etc. For win8 the start button and menu should have been fully customizable from day one. Microsoft should have bought classic shell like they bought skype and sysinternals and dozens of others.

 

[Mem]

in windows 7 I just type what I want, I never bother with control panel because it takes too long to go through all that crap. To get to power options you just type "pow" and the list of options narrows down to just a few. To get to windows update you just type "upd" and again the list of options narrows down to something you can process instantly. To get to network connections you type "net", etc etc. For win8 the start button and menu should have been fully customizable from day one. Microsoft should have bought classic shell like they bought skype and sysinternals and dozens of others.

Type "pow" at Metro start screen and bingo you get power and sleep setting icon and power options on right side.

Typing some of the first key letters on keyboard on Metro start gives you normally the program or options you need,.

I prefer to organise my Metro tiles/columns and old desktop UI with programs I need so normally I never need to use key search options,and yes I also organised Win7 too on desktop UI in the old days so nothings really changed for me.

I could also argue right click on start button(ie in left hand corner) brings up the Win+X menu and yes that has Windows update,power options,net etc...(see my screenshot in previous post) which takes less then a second,you can add things to Win+X menu so no need to stay with 8/8.1 defaults.

 

[aShufflinZombie]

The issue isn't metro. If MS gave an option in the control panel to turn on the start menu, no one would have an issue. Best of both worlds.

 

[yinan]

This would actually get me to upgrade. Metro is so much of a waste of screen space and time. I hate that in order to launch a new program I have to see that stupid thing. Win7 with the start menu I do not lose visibility to my desktop, metro I do, which is why I will never use it.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Marketshare of Win8+Win8.1 is so disasterous. It reached a point where MS entire business relies solely on leased software contracts on older software versions to make profit. Windows 8.x already costed number 1 and 2 in MS their job. If Windows "Threshold" doesnt change this, the entire corporation can be in dire trouble.

Windows 8.x marketshare grew 0.05% last month. To compare, Windows 7 grew 0.22% in the same timeframe.

 

[PliotronX]

This would actually get me to upgrade. Metro is so much of a waste of screen space and time. I hate that in order to launch a new program I have to see that stupid thing. Win7 with the start menu I do not lose visibility to my desktop, metro I do, which is why I will never use it.

Exactly, and this carries over to the RT versions of Photos, Videos, Reader, Music, and IE. Absolutely useless for the desktop. There is no reason playing an MP3 should take up an entire screen aside from visualization even then it should be able to be resized or hidden behind other windows. The more I think about it the more I think the guy who said it should be called "Microsoft Window" is right. Thank goodness they included WMP.

 

[Savatar]

I'm shocked that a lot of people here are trying to defend Modern UI (formerly known as Metro) on desktop. o.o It was _horrible_, in my opinion. Why?

1. It creates a jarring transition between full-screen and windowed applications. With big monitors, using these modern UI applications and going back and forth to windowed applications is very frustrating. (it's also ridiculous to think that just applies to 'power users') Running Modern UI applications in windowed mode for desktop users should have been a day one feature.

2. The charms bar is on the right, but the settings charm opens up the settings menu on the left... this causes your mouse and eyes to go back and forth - it's bad UI design in general. Keep your input device and eye focus on where it needs to be by moving charms to the left, please (probably going to be integrated into the new start menu in threshold).

3. Even in Windows 8.1, when they added a right-click menu (?!) to the windows icon for 'power users' (?!), ... that was executed horribly even though it added back some nice convenience. Nothing about it is that intuitive at all, and you can't re-arrange or add/remove shortcuts (at least it's not obvious how to do so). The only thing I could figure out how to do is swap out command line for powershell (?!) and even then you can't have both on the menu at the same time (?!).

4. Hot-corners (i.e. for the charms bar, for example) do not work well in VMs or RDP sessions at all, unless you snap the cursor to the window (which is annoying when you're trying to work in several sessions at once). Granted, this one actually is a more niche power-user use-case, but it's a glaring oversight considering they also brought full-screen Modern UI to the server version of their operating system (?! ?! ?! ?!). It has practically no place there!

It's been one bizarre, irrational decision after another with Microsoft and Windows 8/8.1. Please, please, please let Threshold be a return to some semblance of sanity.

Bringing back a start menu and letting users natively run metro applications in windows just makes sense... so this seems like a step in the right direction to me. Let's hope they execute it well, with inline searching and seamless transition to system settings/CP menus without jolting people between desktop/full-screen again.

 

[Imaginer]

I'm shocked that a lot of people here are trying to defend Modern UI (formerly known as Metro) on desktop. o.o It was _horrible_, in my opinion. Why?

1. It creates a jarring transition between full-screen and windowed applications. With big monitors, using these modern UI applications and going back and forth to windowed applications is very frustrating. (it's also ridiculous to think that just applies to 'power users') Running Modern UI applications in windowed mode for desktop users should have been a day one feature.

Jarring? There is a soft fade from the Start Screen to what you were in previously. There is a flip transition to apps. If you are complaining about "jarring", make mention of full screen gaming transition from the desktop environment and the "flashing" that may happen when handling different resolutions and settings. The transitions are done by Aero (note it is there, just not the full on GLASS implementation).

2. The charms bar is on the right, but the settings charm opens up the settings menu on the left... this causes your mouse and eyes to go back and forth - it's bad UI design in general. Keep your input device and eye focus on where it needs to be by moving charms to the left, please (probably going to be integrated into the new start menu in threshold).

Ok, now I know that this is false. No where does anything settings related get pushed on the left side of the screen. Settings is app context sensitive and desktop sensitive, and will vary depending on what is on the right of the screen (if you split pane things, settings will be context of the one to the right).

3. Even in Windows 8.1, when they added a right-click menu (?!) to the windows icon for 'power users' (?!), ... that was executed horribly even though it added back some nice convenience. Nothing about it is that intuitive at all, and you can't re-arrange or add/remove shortcuts (at least it's not obvious how to do so). The only thing I could figure out how to do is swap out command line for powershell (?!) and even then you can't have both on the menu at the same time (?!).

Again, this is a valid complaint. There should be a more robust included tutorial for new accounts (8.1 gave more than 8). You can pin administrative things to the Start screen, your eyes focus on the Start menu anyways when you open the thing up, and both you can always use the taskbar.

8.2 should satisfy the gamut of UI options for Windows, anyway you slice it. I gave my reasons why I abandoned the desktop icon potpourri and it's inherent redundancy for my uses.

"Recently used programs" for me isn't necessary with my properly Start screen pinned things right there. If I do need that list, it is now a down arrow click on the Start screen with filters on the "All programs" list. 8.2 will give that back. And it is a good thing for those that do like that up front.

I get the feeling that your definition of "intuitive" means "spoon-fed". After playing and getting used to it, things come together and I have a better feel and manipulation of the OS (minus some Control Panel to PC Settings quirks and gripes).

4. Hot-corners (i.e. for the charms bar, for example) do not work well in VMs or RDP sessions at all, unless you snap the cursor to the window (which is annoying when you're trying to work in several sessions at once). Granted, this one actually is a more niche power-user use-case, but it's a glaring oversight considering they also brought full-screen Modern UI to the server version of their operating system (?! ?! ?! ?!). It has practically no place there!

This is a niche. Most likely, you do not need to access the Charms or apps in an RDP session (and if you do, it would be to other 8 and 8.1 computers, which one would use the Modern/Metro RDP (drawback of this one versus the Desktop RDP is there is no in-between copy/cut/paste anything from the host to the client sessions).

Even so, I have no problems giving a move of the mouse in the hot corner (and this is coming from using multi monitors with 8 and 8.1, but it is a small window of where the cursor needs to be positioned in the hidden corner.

Bringing back a start menu and letting users natively run metro applications in windows just makes sense... so this seems like a step in the right direction to me. Let's hope they execute it well, with inline searching and seamless transition to system settings/CP menus without jolting people between desktop/full-screen again.

[/quote]

So, back to "apps" being windowed programs and foregoing that "app" buzzword. I am all in favor for that!

It may make me want to use the Store "apps" more on my desktop machines. And that is a win-win on both sides. That is the biggest reason why I see Microsoft doing this. It encourages more or less this. Especially now if you can independently scale the "app windows" so things can be just to your liking.

 

[hclarkjr]

looks like the start button might be coming even sooner to 8.1 http://www.winbeta.org/news/start-menu-could-return-windows-thresholds-release-windows-81-be-updated

 

[Savatar]

2. The charms bar is on the right, but the settings charm opens up the settings menu on the left... this causes your mouse and eyes to go back and forth - it's bad UI design in general. Keep your input device and eye focus on where it needs to be by moving charms to the left, please (probably going to be integrated into the new start menu in threshold).

Ok, now I know that this is false. No where does anything settings related get pushed on the left side of the screen. Settings is app context sensitive and desktop sensitive, and will vary depending on what is on the right of the screen (if you split pane things, settings will be context of the one to the right).

Try it... when you go to open the charms bar, that is always on the far-right of the screen. In Desktop mode (not full-screen or half-and-half "Modern UI" mode, which isn't that modern at all), if you click settings on the charms bar, it transitions to the full-screen Modern-UI and the settings menu opens on the far left (not anywhere near the far-right, where you just clicked settings).

What should happen? From a usability perspective it should open in-context - around where your input and eyes are already focusing from just clicking 'Settings'. This can be partly resolved by placing the charms elements on the new start menu supposedly coming in Threshold.