Microsoft attempts to patent virtual desktops

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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I am sorry, but I couldn't resist this.

This patent attempt is so stupid as to be laughable if it wasn't so true.

Microsoft has created a new technology were you can have several "virtual desktop" 's and be able to get a preview and switch to each desktop with a little thingy called a "pager",

Of course this idea is unique to MS and has never been used before in other operating system enviroments before

First mice and pointers along with graphical user interface, 8.3 filenames, MS office, IE and now virtual multiple desktops! Will the wonders never cease.
rolleye.gif



PS. just so you know FVWM is a ancient window manager for unix-like operating systems. It's originated from back before 1993. Virtual desktops themselves have been used for years even before that.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
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At the forefront of innovation! Do you want to go today where others have already been?
 

spyordie007

Diamond Member
May 28, 2001
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While I agree that Microsoft is certainly not the first one to come up with virtual desktops I think you're missing the point.

The question of the patent is "has anyone already patented it?" and if not "can I get a patent for this through the patent office?" What Microsoft is doing here is no differant than any other industry, this is why if you come up with a new idea you need to patent it so that others cannot use it and/or get the patent for it themselves.

BTW that patent request was filed April 5, 2002
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: spyordie007
While I agree that Microsoft is certainly not the first one to come up with virtual desktops I think you're missing the point.

The question of the patent is "has anyone already patented it?" and if not "can I get a patent for this through the patent office?" What Microsoft is doing here is no differant than any other industry, this is why if you come up with a new idea you need to patent it so that others cannot use it and/or get the patent for it themselves.

BTW that patent request was filed April 5, 2002

Prior art should be enough to kill the patent request.

Don't patent requests take time, money, and possibly lawyers? Sounds like a big clusterF if I want a patent for something I'm going to give away for free...
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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That's absolutely ridicilous.
Heck, when I was 14 or 15 or something, I encountered my first UNIX box, an Alpha of some sort, I hated CDE, but them virtual desktops were there.

I don't give a crap about business in this particular case, that patent is an insult to the countless developers who have worked in various implementations of virtual desktops, be it in CDE, Gnome, FVWM, KDE, or whatever.
By the way, XP's virtual desktops sucked last time I checked, maybe they're trying to patent the impementation of "crappy virtual desktops" as opposed to good ones.
 

spyordie007

Diamond Member
May 28, 2001
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Prior art should be enough to kill the patent request.
Yeah if this hasnt been turned down already I'm sure it will, my guess would be some Microsoft lawyer who knows business and knows patents but doenst know software saw an opportunity and tried to take it.
Don't patent requests take time, money, and possibly lawyers? Sounds like a big clusterF if I want a patent for something I'm going to give away for free...
They take time (in both yours for writing up the patent and waiting on the patent office to review it) and a little bit of money for what the patent office does, but not much else is "required". I agree that it's a pain if you want to give something away for free, but it beats the potential alternative of someone taking your idea and claiming it is their own ;)

EDIT: missed this
By the way, XP's virtual desktops sucked last time I checked
I agree, the VDM for windows explorer is a "nice try" at best. The only decent VDM I've used for Windows is Litestep, and that's been quite a while (I wonder if they are even developing it anymore).
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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This sort of thing shouldn't even be a issue. Patents like this and for most software is entirely BS. It shouldn't happen, it doesn't have anything to do with protecting ideas or work, all it has to do is to restrict the ability for others to create.

This is just another example of why the patent system shouldn't be used with software.

After all. I think I am going to patent Dictonaries.

Nobody has a patent on dictonaries, do they? Well I am going to do it, webster should know better then not to patent this sort of thing and protect themselves.

It's just what any industry already does already, so morality or even common human decencency should never enter my thinking. I mean, who cares about all the people I am trying to screw over and insult with is? After all they didn't patent it first!

So all I have to do is hirer a good patent lawyer and draw up a document to patent the ability to create a repository of easily referenced words commonly represented in the english language.

This repository should be in the form of thin sheats of wood pulp or similar fiberous substance that when drawn out in such a form as to make it easy for readable letters created by a stainlike substance hearby refered to as "ink". With this ink and a combination of stringlike materials and sticky substances (hearby refered to as "glue" and "binding".) will create a boxy shaped device that when openned by simple hand gestures will reveal detials into the commonly used and accepted words of the english language. In addition to these words listings I will use symbols established in what will be known from now on as a "index" used to make it easy to translate these words into a spoken language to aid people in not sounding stupid at parties by mispronouncating thes words. Also for each listing of word and grammatical usage will be a terse, yet complete, definition of said word.

Well that was fun. Hope it works out and I get my patent! Not that I won't restrict others in their ability to create books, it's just that I want to be able to protect my ideas.

Now for my next patents, I will attempt to patent Interstate highway system, the 80's TV show "Dallas", and a variation on the "Home shopping network" that will be called "Drag shopping internet Network" (will use naked ladies instead of clothed models for showing finely crafted, but cheaply made earings. Oh, and it will still be shown on regular cable TV, but with the added ability to pay for your purchase with paypal via email if you want to).

Oh, wait. I don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw away on frivolous patents and very expensive Patent lawyers needed to trick the government. Darn.

Guess there realy is some downsides to not being microsoft.
 

spyordie007

Diamond Member
May 28, 2001
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Prior art should be enough to kill your patent requests.

On the other hand this Drag Shopping Internet Network idea might be worth the venture ;)
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Drag shopping network may definately be worth the effort,

but should it be patentable?
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: spyordie007
but should it be patentable?
If you can successfully argue that it is adequetly unique, yes.

But it's obviously not and it would be redicules to create a patent for that.

But if MS can patent a mpeg4-based file format and threaten to sue someone who tried to make a free compatable player, and they took the well established XML file format and modified it slightly and then patented that, then you can understand why these sort of things should be fought against. I understand that MS isn't the only people doing this sort of thing, but non-the-less it should be fought against and a attempt to put a stop to frivilous patents.

It's not so bad that they are willing to blow money on lawyers in a attempt to steal other people's ideas thru the patent system, it's bad that they have a decent chance of pulling it off.

see here for details on the illigetimacy of the current system of software patents.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: spyordie007
right, that you can successfully argue that it's adequetly unique

Obviously not. Patents are abused every day. Microsoft trying to get a patent on something that was out there before Microsoft even filed for the patent is one obvious example of someone trying to abuse the system and the people that fall under its jurisdiction. It's a willful waste of time, money, and other resources.
 

stephbu

Senior member
Jan 1, 2004
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During patent application predisclosure, prior-art is usually listed and discussed. If there is suitably unique invention, refinement or unique method of using previous invention then it is a fair candidate for patent.

Any person can apply this pattern, as the Japanese have successfully done for the last couple of decades, with American and European patents.

Patents are as much defensive as offensive - the recent Eolas case is a great example of why this is necessary.
 

bsobel

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Dec 9, 2001
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Just a clarification, MS is not trying to patent virtual desktops, but rather a graphical technique for previewing them. I believe the graphical preview also has plenty of prior art (for what its' worth)

After all. I think I am going to patent Dictonaries.

Drag you don't understand the issue. You can't patent an item that was previously released to the public (unless you released it, which in the US gives you 1 year from the release to file). It's not a matter of being the first to patent an idea, it's a matter of being the first to invent. So your example (while kindy funny) is pointless.

Bill
 

EeyoreX

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2002
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Just a clarification, MS is not trying to patent virtual desktops, but rather a graphical technique for previewing them.
Legalease is a language generally beyond me, but even I got this. And since so little of the document was readable by a mortal such as myself, I have no real idea what the hell they are talking about, so I can't say if their method of displaying the preview is different enough to warrant a patent.

\Dan
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
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Originally posted by: EeyoreX
Just a clarification, MS is not trying to patent virtual desktops, but rather a graphical technique for previewing them.
Legalease is a language generally beyond me, but even I got this. And since so little of the document was readable by a mortal such as myself, I have no real idea what the hell they are talking about, so I can't say if their method of displaying the preview is different enough to warrant a patent.

\Dan

Hence the need for lawyers. Lawyers beget lawyers...
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Just a clarification, MS is not trying to patent virtual desktops, but rather a graphical technique for previewing them. I believe the graphical preview also has plenty of prior art (for what its' worth)

Enlightenment, the window manager that is. I'm using E16.6 right now and the desktop previews rock, the last release before this one was several years ago (pre 2000 IIRC). In E you can even drag windows between the previews and it'll move them on the 'real' desktops, wonder if MS included that functionality too?
 

OffTopic1

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: spyordie007
While I agree that Microsoft is certainly not the first one to come up with virtual desktops I think you're missing the point.

The question of the patent is "has anyone already patented it?" and if not "can I get a patent for this through the patent office?" What Microsoft is doing here is no differant than any other industry, this is why if you come up with a new idea you need to patent it so that others cannot use it and/or get the patent for it themselves.

BTW that patent request was filed April 5, 2002
Why don you patent the format that we write from left to right & make everyone pay for it?
 

EeyoreX

Platinum Member
Oct 27, 2002
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Hence the need for lawyers. Lawyers beget lawyers...
Hate em or not, you almost have to admire the self-propogation of the line. ;) Almost.
Why don you patent the format that we write from left to right & make everyone pay for it?
Why don't you read all the responses? It would have been answered. This joke was funny once it isn't particularly funny the second time.
You can't patent an item that was previously released to the public (unless you released it, which in the US gives you 1 year from the release to file). It's not a matter of being the first to patent an idea, it's a matter of being the first to invent.

\Dan
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: bsobel
Just a clarification, MS is not trying to patent virtual desktops, but rather a graphical technique for previewing them. I believe the graphical preview also has plenty of prior art (for what its' worth)

After all. I think I am going to patent Dictonaries.

Drag you don't understand the issue. You can't patent an item that was previously released to the public (unless you released it, which in the US gives you 1 year from the release to file). It's not a matter of being the first to patent an idea, it's a matter of being the first to invent. So your example (while kindy funny) is pointless.

Bill

Ya your right. I didn't understand it correctly.

The issues with software patents is that every program incorporates thousands and thousands of unique inventions, new ideas and concepts created by the programmer to solve various problems.

Under current patent law each and every one of these solutions and concepts are eligable for a patent.

However the problems happens because each of these new inventions and concepts can be just as easily created by another programmer for a entirely different program with absolutely no prior knowledge of the other even the existance of the other programmer's patents or even knowledge of the program's even existance.

What can happen in every program is that you can unintentionally violate hundreds of other patents, and be subject to various lawsuites, each and every one has the ablity to create a cease and desist order for your entire program or ruin you finacially unless your a gigantic company that can absorb the costs.

The coporate solution is patent liscencing. If you inadvertently step on other people's toes (as in this case you create a pager and virtual desktop that incorporates a feature that can be made to have a description that sounds similar to part of the language in this patent attempt, which I now realise is a variation of the current standard practice. The actual variation is what is being attempted to being patented) you can simply liscence the patent from MS and not risk litigation.

Unfortunately for the vast majority of companies and programmers (probably around 90%) they can't afford the horrific expenses of looking up each and every function or line of code they create to make sure that they are safe from litigation.

Not even large corporations can't afford to do it as the current patent proccess makes it impossible to find patented software concepts in a reasonable manner.

The side effect is that it makes it close to impossible to create a competing software product, because if any part of your program even comes close to a established patent they can create a lawsuit that will result in your finacial ruin if you attempt to defend yourself.

For instance a patent part of the FAT filing system can be used to stop some one to publish a music program. Because although the programs may be completely dissimilar something in that music program can incorporate a algorithm or function that may be identical to a already established patent.

There is a long (relatively for computer industry vs othe industries) of patent abuse to stifle innovation or at least a attempt to make money.

While this patent may or may not be a overt attempt to stiffle innovation by MS. Very likely it is that they are simply trying to protect themselves. the result is that if this patent becomes active that every person that makes a program similar to virtual desktops or pagers with a preview feature they would have to hire a lawyer to make sure that they won't be liable. This makes the cost of creating a program increase roughly by 5000% percent.

Also the average patent takes between 2-5 years to complete even with legal help. It's impractacle for the average person to use a patent to defend themselves unless they want to only publish programs that are hopelessly out of date.
 

smp

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2000
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steer hard left ..


what you guys think of gene patents?
What about pharmacueticals? (sp?)

lawyers beget lawyers and greed begets greed

if everyone around you is hoarding and squabbling, you'll be left with none, so get on with the hoarding and squabbling.