Microsoft Announces Project Scorpio (Next Xbox)

[Sweepr]

Project Scorpio

''Project Scorpio''
8 Core CPU
6 TFLOPS of computing capability (SoC) / 6 TFLOPS of GPU power
>320 GB/s Bandwidth
Backwards Compatible
Built for 4K and VR
2017 Launch

''When it ships next year we believe it will be the most powerful console ever built.''

Microsoft has announced a new Xbox codenamed Project Scorpio for release holiday 2017.

Microsoft believes it will be the most powerful console on the market. It will have eight CPU cores and 6 teraflops of GPU power. "It's a monster," one Xbox talking-head said during a superlative-laden trailer. Xbox head Phil Spencer said he believes it's the most powerful console ever built.

Better yet, Project Scorpio will be compatible with all Xbox One games and peripherals. No price was announced - any bets?

In a press release, Microsoft said Scorpio would power 4K gaming and virtual reality, but it didn't say how you'd see that virtual reality. One rumour is that Microsoft will partner with Oculus Rift.

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-...-new-console-project-scorpio-for-holiday-2017

Next fall it will be joined by yet another Xbox One, codenamed Project Scorpio. More powerful than the One S, Scorpio will operate at six teraflops, powerful enough to play both 4K-native games and virtual reality experiences (with the addition of an as-of-yet-unknown VR headset). According to Spencer, the improvement between Scorpio and the current Xbox One will be immediately noticeable. "I actually think the upgrade to Scorpio in terms of visual fidelity will feel as dramatic of a change as we’re used to seeing in new generations," he said.

www.theverge.com/2016/6/13/11915624...-cross-platform-future-phil-spencer-interview

Launching Fall 2017. Looks like developers already have access to early hardware.

.@GearsViking: "Gears 4 will take advantage of the Scorpio hardware" #GearsofWar4 #E3

https://twitter.com/GowFeed/status/742438197058228225

YouTube Video

Let the specs speculation begin.

 

[inf64]

My wild guess:
A hybrid APU made of 8C/16T Zen @ 2.5Ghz coupled with RX480 class iGPU with HBM

 

[moonbogg]

So the time has come for the new console generation? Seems early doesn't it? I thought they released them every 10 years or something.

 

[Arachnotronic]

My wild guess:
A hybrid APU made of 8C/16T Zen @ 2.5Ghz coupled with RX480 class iGPU with HBM

Very unlikely. It's more likely to be a higher clocked Jaguar derivative with a Polaris-class GPU using GDDR5X.

8C/16T Zen would be massively overkill for an RX480 class GPU.

 

[SPBHM]

My wild guess:
A hybrid APU made of 8C/16T Zen @ 2.5Ghz coupled with RX480 class iGPU with HBM

the renderings clearly showed GDDR ram, so I don't think HBM is being used

also, I wonder if they still have the ESRAM for compatibility?

 

[inf64]

Yep I just read the specs, haven't watched the video at first. If the video's depiction of the HW is correct then you are right, there won't be HBM. I still think Zen is a possibility for this console.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So the time has come for the new console generation? Seems early doesn't it? I thought they released them every 10 years or something.

So, there are two models they can follow:

1. Build consoles with high-end components and then charge high prices for the consoles while having longer console generations. This means that MS or Sony would probably still eat money on every console sale since they probably couldn't sell any consoles for the actual cost of the components. This is what happened with XB360 and PS3 and it was years into the cycle before MS or Sony made a profit.

2. Build consoles with more modest specs and upgrade them more frequently and presumably, maintain backwards compatibility. In other words, consoles now become almost identical to PCs. This seems to be what has happened with XBOne and PS4 - if you remember, people were pretty underwhelmed by the specs when announced.

The only thing IMO left is for them to add universal KB and mouse support to all games and I may be sold on the idea of consoles replacing my gaming PC.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Yep I just read the specs, haven't watched the video at first. If the video's depiction of the HW is correct then you are right, there won't be HBM. I still think Zen is a possibility for this console.

If it's going to be a high-end/souped up version of the Xbox One that's intended to run the same code, then changing the fundamental CPU architecture that underlies it is a bad idea. I don't think it's Zen.

 

[Sweepr]

I think the GPU and memory portion of the system will be something like this:

- GPU:
Either 36 CUs (2304 SPs; P10 XT 'like') at ~1.2 GHz
or
Custom 40 CUs (2560 SPs) at ~1.05-1.1 GHz

- Memory:
16GB GDDR5X 10 Gbps @ 320 GB/s


Looks like it's 6 TFLOPS for the entire SoC, so we have to include CPU here as well.

 

[inf64]

If it's going to be a high-end/souped up version of the Xbox One that's intended to run the same code, then changing the fundamental CPU architecture that underlies it is a bad idea. I don't think it's Zen.

Well both chips are fully x86 compatible so I don't see what would be the problem?

 

[2blzd]

So the time has come for the new console generation? Seems early doesn't it? I thought they released them every 10 years or something.

It's not. They're doing a mid-cycle refresh so they can keep up with the VR craze/hype/trend. Current console HW isn't powerful for a decent VR experience, although sony will claim otherwise.

Sony did it with the Neo and MS is doing it with the Scorpio.

Sony also didn't originally plan for this. They were going to shrink the PS4 APU, like Sony and MS always do with their console revisions mid cycle, and release a smaller, less power hungry PS4. MS did this with 360 and Sony with the PS3.

Working with AMD, Sony realized it would be cheaper to use a Polaris derived APU on 14nm. It was way more expensive, complex and time consuming to shrink the current PS4 APU to 14nm. The extra performance they gained by switching to Polaris was an unplanned benefit that wasn't originally part of the PS4 revision plans.

Thus NEO was born. I'm sure MS followed a similar path with Scorpio


And for the record, the average console life cycle is 5-6 years, with the previous generation being an exception. Xbox360 was about 8 and PS3 was 7

 

[sm625]

Putting the GPU aside for a moment, how many GFLOPs can a 8 core jaguar class CPU produce? Is it even worth counting towards the 6 TFLOP total? If it was a Zen 8 core, how many GFLOPs are we looking at?

 

[Sweepr]

Launching Fall 2017. Looks like developers already have access to early hardware.

.@GearsViking: "Gears 4 will take advantage of the Scorpio hardware" #GearsofWar4 #E3

https://twitter.com/GowFeed/status/742438197058228225

Radeon RX 480 being used in devkits?

 

[know of fence]

Putting the GPU aside for a moment, how many GFLOPs can a 8 core jaguar class CPU produce? Is it even worth counting towards the 6 TFLOP total? If it was a Zen 8 core, how many GFLOPs are we looking at?

Only found this old table.

 

[Elixer]

If they want to hard launch this, and have enough supply for the holiday shipment date, that leaves only a few more months before everything must be final.
If it is a zen based product, that would be pretty huge for AMD.

 

[Anon_lawyer]

I think the GPU and memory portion of the system will be something like this:

- GPU:
Either 36 CUs (2304 SPs; P10 XT 'like') at ~1.2 GHz
or
Custom 40 CUs (2560 SPs) at ~1.05-1.1 GHz

- Memory:
16GB GDDR5X 10 Gbps @ 320 GB/s


Looks like it's 6 TFLOPS for the entire SoC, so we have to include CPU here as well.

If they are going to be fully backward compatible, won't they need at least 32GB of ESRAM? IIRC that was in the ballpark of 100 GB/s of bandwidth for the Xbox One. That could make a big difference to how we should interpret the 320 GB/s number.

 

[Sweepr]

Fall 2017 makes me think it might use Vega's updated GCN. If Radeon RX 480 is closer to 5 TFLOPS (AMD said 'more than 5 TFLOPs') then I think going with a larger Vega based custom GPU at sane clocks makes more sense to hit the 6 TFLOPS target.

@ Anon_lawyer: No idea.

 

[SPBHM]

Putting the GPU aside for a moment, how many GFLOPs can a 8 core jaguar class CPU produce? Is it even worth counting towards the 6 TFLOP total? If it was a Zen 8 core, how many GFLOPs are we looking at?

PS4 is around 100GFLOPS
Xbox One a little higher like 110

 

[Dresdenboy]

PS4 is around 100GFLOPS
Xbox One a little higher like 110

Yep. That's for SP. One core does 8 SP FLOPS/clk or 3 DP FLOPS/clk.

 

[rainy]

Fall 2017 makes me think it might use Vega's updated GCN. If Radeon RX 480 is closer to 5 TFLOPS (AMD said 'more than 5 TFLOPs') then I think going with a larger Vega based custom GPU at sane clocks makes more sense to hit the 6 TFLOPS target.

I think, it could be RX 480 - at 1.26 GHz it would have 5.8 TFLOPS.

 

[itsmydamnation]

If it's going to be a high-end/souped up version of the Xbox One that's intended to run the same code, then changing the fundamental CPU architecture that underlies it is a bad idea. I don't think it's Zen.

Its less of an issue then changing GPU by a long way but they are changing that and especially if they keep it 8 core. I think its probably Zen, but still could be jaguar. We know the 8 core Zen is small, strip out GMI/PCI-e interface etc it gets smaller. They are increasing GPU somewhere around 4 times and VR needs high frame rates, i dont think jaguar will be enough.

Also AMD have no plans for a 14nm jaguar, so it would be just for Sony/MS which means they would have to pay for it not leverage something existing.

a 8 core Zen + full Polaris 10 < 400mm the question is then Esram its probably tiny on 14nm and given GDDR5X bandwdith they wouldn't make it bigger just have it for backward compat.

 

[Adul]

Its less of an issue then changing GPU by a long way but they are changing that and especially if they keep it 8 core. I think its probably Zen, but still could be jaguar. We know the 8 core Zen is small, strip out GMI/PCI-e interface etc it gets smaller. They are increasing GPU somewhere around 4 times and VR needs high frame rates, i dont think jaguar will be enough.

Also AMD have no plans for a 14nm jaguar, so it would be just for Sony/MS which means they would have to pay for it not leverage something existing.

a 8 core Zen + full Polaris 10 < 400mm the question is then Esram its probably tiny on 14nm and given GDDR5X bandwdith they wouldn't make it bigger just have it for backward compat.

I am wondering if there is some sort of perhaps multi-gpu setup at play here to keep die sizes small.

 

[Elixer]

I really don't see where MS is going with this.
If it is going to be polaris based, and that has a full hardware encoder/decoder than can do 4K @60fps, why the heck did they just kill DVR for the XB1?
Then they are now saying you can play the game on either PC or XB1/XBS(corpio)?
They are all over the map.

 

[Sweepr]

I think, it could be RX 480 - at 1.26 GHz it would have 5.8 TFLOPS.

Reposting from VC&G. I don't think this will be regular Polaris 10 XT. It's launching more than a year from now, and 2017 Vega is based on a newer iteration of GCN. Sony is rumoured to use a low clocked version of Polaris 10 XT at 911 MHZ for PS4 Neo, and I think MS will try to beat them on all paper specs. I wouldn't be surprised if Scorpio packs 40 Vega-like CUs in Polaris 10 die size a year from now, probably at lower clocks and more efficient than a near 1.3 GHZ P10 would be.

 

[Roland00Address]

If the Project Scorpio is going to have the following

8 Core Zen CPU

8 GBs or more of memory (Xbox One has 8gbs)

a 2000+ GCN Shader GPU



Well why can't microsoft just put a 256 GB SSD plus the hard drive and then just market this as the ultimate everything, a game system, a tv system, but also a desktop pc system. Sure it may not have full windows 10 but it will support all the same windows 10 apps while dumping the backwards compatibility of the old windows stuff. This is not necessarily a bad thing it helps you get rid of all the junk and security stuff that leads to viruses, malware, etc when the only things that can install are from the windows store.