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Microsoft announces Game Pass for PC

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,109
400
136
Now you can rent your PC games as well, which I'm not sure is a bad thing as I can't remember a PC game that I went back and replayed. Not counting re-releases.

link
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,436
308
126
As a subscriber to the Xbox version of gamepass this is huge news. Gamepass on Xbox is awesome though my opinion might be colored by the crazy deals they have been doing to promote it. ($1 for 3 months, 50% off 6 month, "free" months through MS rewards, etc) . Still even at full price I think it would have been worth it as I have been able to play a ton of different games.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
25,682
1,200
126
I remember when I was a teenager, we had "sega channel" which was kinda neat... but I'd much prefer to simply buy games when they are cheap on steam and then play and replay whenever I feel like it.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,943
599
126
As a subscriber to the Xbox version of gamepass this is huge news. Gamepass on Xbox is awesome though my opinion might be colored by the crazy deals they have been doing to promote it. ($1 for 3 months, 50% off 6 month, "free" months through MS rewards, etc) . Still even at full price I think it would have been worth it as I have been able to play a ton of different games.
The weird thing is that the Xbox Game Pass already worked on PC. I haven't checked it since the announcement, but it sounds like they just removed a feature from the original Game Pass and baked it into the Ultimate with a $5 charge tacked on for Xbox Live Gold.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,436
308
126
The weird thing is that the Xbox Game Pass already worked on PC. I haven't checked it since the announcement, but it sounds like they just removed a feature from the original Game Pass and baked it into the Ultimate with a $5 charge tacked on for Xbox Live Gold.
It only works on PC for PlayAnywhere titles. Maybe 8-10 titles. Not worth it for just pc. Here it is

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/pc-games

$1 for first month, $5 until beta ends then $10.

Seems like the game list is not complete since they say over 100 games but only 64 are listed for PC.

You can get a year of ultimate pretty chap by buying a year of Xbox Live Gold for ~$50 then converting it to Ultimate for $1. Turn off auto renew then cancel or switch to PC only if you don't care about console after the year.
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
Now you can rent your PC games as well, which I'm not sure is a bad thing as I can't remember a PC game that I went back and replayed. Not counting re-releases.

link
To be honest I really can't stand where gaming ended up on the PC, we had mods, level editors and sdk's in the 90's, to go from that to the modern wasteland of locked down f2p/mmo bs and free2play scam games on pc and mobile.

I'm a bit horrified, have anyone of you played the latest and greatest out of AAA gaming land, games filled to the brim with microtransactions that try to extort money out of you?

Sorry but not owning the crap you buy has lead to a real quality loss in games over the last 20 years beginning with Ultima online, everquest, World of warcraft and guild wars. Once developers and publishers had control of the software, they got a sweet sweet taste of power and the stupidity of the masses.

I can imagine how much better many games would have been like Mass effect 1 + 2 if they had full blown level editors and modding. So as a gamer from the 90's... I am seriously disappointed that the human race bent over and allowed game companies to literally steal PC games out from under them via mmo's (aka rpg's rebadged as mmo's) and steam infested games...

The final nail in the coffin was Team fortress 2 going free2play with mtx in TF2... a game that went from premium - you buy it, its yours, to garbage.

Valve can just sit on a mountain of microtransaction money they get from kids and idiots and never have to develop a thing ever again.

The man launched his store by stealing half life and patching it to computers in his office. To think Valve went from a company making games to a company that just screws everyone over.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,436
308
126
Level editor for Mass Effect? It is a single player, story driven game, what the heck are you going to do with a level editor? The only games that need level editors IMO are multiplayer games, even then they are not always that important. Realistically they all still exist, they are just made for developers now (Epic has lots of tools available for unreal engine).

IMO the games today are better than the games from the 90s.

I agree microtransactions suck, unless they are cosmetic only, then I don't give a f*, but understand the anger.
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
Level editor for Mass Effect? It is a single player, story driven game, what the heck are you going to do with a level editor?
Dude almost every game coming out in the 90's had level editing tooks, descent, duke 3d, quake, doom, freespace with fred.

The doom mod community is still going strong after 20 years on the net because devs released mod tools to the community. We now have stuff like Brutal doom.

You clearly either didn't game much back then or were not anything like a hardcore gamer. Many of us played warcraft 2 and custom maps over kali, descent 2 in minerva and all sorts of multiplayer levels, maps and mods.

Part of the reason Need for speed doesn't sell as well as EA has been wanting for the past 15 or so years since Most wanted 2005... .is because it had no level editing tools, a huge chunk of hit games were mods from games from the 90's, dota 2 and league of legends being prime examples that spawned from the warcraft and starcraft modding scene in the late 90's and early 2000's.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,436
308
126
Dude almost every game coming out in the 90's had level editing tooks, descent, duke 3d, quake, doom, freespace with fred.

The doom mod community is still going strong after 20 years on the net because devs released mod tools to the community. We now have stuff like Brutal doom.

You clearly either didn't game much back then or were not anything like a hardcore gamer. Many of us played warcraft 2 and custom maps over kali, descent 2 in minerva and all sorts of multiplayer levels, maps and mods.
I said, only really need them for multiplayer games... Mass Effect is not a multiplayer game...
 

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,015
255
126
Huh. Now they say about 100 games - eclectic list, looks pretty worth it IMO.
The vast majority of the games on that list have been listed under $5 on Steam or even given away for free from various sites and bundles. There's a few titles in there that are still a little pricey but in the end, I don't see this being worthwhile when you can just as easily grab it cheap on Steam, play it for two hours, then if you don't like it, refund it. If you do like it, it's yours forever to replay as many times as you like.

Then again, I am one of those people who will replay games that I enjoy. I know there's a lot of people out there who play a game once then immediately want to resell it and buy something else so this might be more up their alley.
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
I said, only really need them for multiplayer games... Mass Effect is not a multiplayer game...
Mass effect 3 had multiplayer, and you could make single player missions for doom, quake, descent and duke 3d. So once again you seem to lack any kind of insight of what happened in the 90's which makes me think you didn't grow up in the 90's playing games.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,503
3,493
136
I hate the move towards renting, subscription services and not owning or being able to control anything (which applies to much more than just games). To me it has so many downsides.

It makes consumers far more passive and less intellectually-engaged (less modding in games, instead you are supposed to buy tweaks and mods from the publisher/distributor and get nickel-and-dimed along the way).

That nickel-and-diming microstransaction model can also lead to children running up ridiculous bills for their parents to have to deal with, which wasn't really a problem when you just bought a game once, in full, and left the kids to it.

It adds hugely to the complexity of consumption (requiring multiple different subscription and streaming platforms, with different games or movies or books only available from certain services).

It puts everything under the publisher's control.. With the possibility of having items you thought you owned being withdrawn, either just for you because you annoyed the publisher in some way (saying bad things about them on their forum, for example). Or because they've been withdrawn for everyone becuase the publisher has some agenda or are just incompetent.

It makes everyone even more dependent than ever on a bunch of corporations, who could potentially make your entire cultural life disappear if you upset them or if they find it unprofitable.

Subscriptions and paywalls for newspapers and TV channels makes information-bubbles worse, as many people can only afford to subscribe to one newspaper or other information source so they are naturally going to pick the one that has the politics they agree with. Whereas with multiple free sources people are more likely to be exposed to different viewpoints.
(I get that newspapers pretty much had to start going behind paywalls to stay in business, but I do miss the days of being able to read all sorts of newspapers with very different politics, for free)

Yes you had to pay for physical newspapers, but with physical newspapers there was a degree of 'leakage' because you could easily end up reading papers you don't agree with, even if it's yesterday's paper you pick up on the train. But if it's a website and subscription only, you just won't see it if you aren't prepared to pay for it.

One thing I really fear is that it will happen with books next, as they shift from physical objects to digital-only releases.


The only counter-trend seems to be open-source and the distribution of out-of-copyright material.

The subscription/streaming/DRM trend to me means it's all the more important that the duration of copyrights be reduced.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,503
3,493
136
Level editor for Mass Effect? It is a single player, story driven game, what the heck are you going to do with a level editor? The only games that need level editors IMO are multiplayer games, even then they are not always that important. Realistically they all still exist, they are just made for developers now (Epic has lots of tools available for unreal engine).

IMO the games today are better than the games from the 90s.

I agree microtransactions suck, unless they are cosmetic only, then I don't give a f*, but understand the anger.

There have been loads of single-player story-driven mods for single-player story-driven games.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
3,436
308
126
Mass effect 3 had multiplayer, and you could make single player missions for doom, quake, descent and duke 3d. So once again you seem to lack any kind of insight of what happened in the 90's which makes me think you didn't grow up in the 90's playing games.
I just gave my opinion, I don't find single player mods at all worthwhile. If you do, good for you. Doom, quake, etc... were only interesting as MP games for me.

Give up on the dick waving too, I played plenty of games in the 90's.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
345
126
I hate the move towards renting, subscription services and not owning or being able to control anything (which applies to much more than just games). To me it has so many downsides.

It makes consumers far more passive and less intellectually-engaged (less modding in games, instead you are supposed to buy tweaks and mods from the publisher/distributor and get nickel-and-dimed along the way).

That nickel-and-diming microstransaction model can also lead to children running up ridiculous bills for their parents to have to deal with, which wasn't really a problem when you just bought a game once, in full, and left the kids to it.

It adds hugely to the complexity of consumption (requiring multiple different subscription and streaming platforms, with different games or movies or books only available from certain services).

It puts everything under the publisher's control.. With the possibility of having items you thought you owned being withdrawn, either just for you because you annoyed the publisher in some way (saying bad things about them on their forum, for example). Or because they've been withdrawn for everyone becuase the publisher has some agenda or are just incompetent.

It makes everyone even more dependent than ever on a bunch of corporations, who could potentially make your entire cultural life disappear if you upset them or if they find it unprofitable.

Subscriptions and paywalls for newspapers and TV channels makes information-bubbles worse, as many people can only afford to subscribe to one newspaper or other information source so they are naturally going to pick the one that has the politics they agree with. Whereas with multiple free sources people are more likely to be exposed to different viewpoints.
(I get that newspapers pretty much had to start going behind paywalls to stay in business, but I do miss the days of being able to read all sorts of newspapers with very different politics, for free)

Yes you had to pay for physical newspapers, but with physical newspapers there was a degree of 'leakage' because you could easily end up reading papers you don't agree with, even if it's yesterday's paper you pick up on the train. But if it's a website and subscription only, you just won't see it if you aren't prepared to pay for it.

One thing I really fear is that it will happen with books next, as they shift from physical objects to digital-only releases.


The only counter-trend seems to be open-source and the distribution of out-of-copyright material.

The subscription/streaming/DRM trend to me means it's all the more important that the duration of copyrights be reduced.
I agree with most of what you said in principle. I think they're thoughtful comments. I agree with you about the outrageous abuse on copyrights.

The same theoretical issue on loss of games you mention, though, exists on Steam - what if it disappeared tomorrow? People get banned on games there also. I just got a permanent ban on Overwatch because too many trolls reported me, and Blizzard doesn't give a crap, and that wasn't a rented game.

The thing that changes my position is that the low price - the sheer value - overwhelms my objections.

These services on MS or Origin are $5/month for access to a lot of games. Just one $30 purchase pays for 6 months. So, the value for the player demands my saying I think it's a pretty good deal. Admittedly, i don't subscribe to them, but probably should - even if the things you mention would rub me the wrong way.
 
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,503
3,493
136
I agree with most of what you said in principle. I think they're thoughtful comments. I agree with you about the outrageous abuse on copyrights.

The same theoretical issue on loss of games you mention, though, exists on Steam - what if it disappeared tomorrow? People get banned on games there also. I just got a permanent ban on Overwatch because too many trolls reported me, and Blizzard doesn't give a crap, and that wasn't a rented game.

The thing that changes my position is that the low price - the sheer value - overwhelms my objections.

These services on MS or Origin are $5/month for access to a lot of games. Just one $30 purchase pays for 6 months. So, the value for the player demands my saying I think it's a pretty good deal. Admittedly, i don't subscribe to them, but probably should - even if the things you mention would rub me the wrong way.

I'd include Steam in the whole issue (though I guess not GoG because they don't have the same inherent DRM stuff). However I haven't bought any games for a very long time, partly because I rarely play them any more (not enough time these days, and, well, feel too old for it, I'm all gamed-out) and partly because I've still got a steam backlog from years and years ago!

But I do check in on steam every now and then (just with the thought "maybe I'll feel like firing something up this time" - before deciding I don't have the energy any more and play solitaire instead) and I don't think the prices are as low as all that. Not as low as I remember them being in the sales in the early days of steam. I think now they are more confident that they've seen off physical media competition.

And compared to the prices that second hand physical disks used to go for, pre-digital distribution, I don't think the prices are that low, and it seems mad that they sell 10 or more year old games for what seems close to full price when not on sale.

Edit - oh, you mean the subscription schemes, not Steam purchases...I guess, but I just wonder if the number of services you end up having to subcribe to won't multiply over time?

Also, another thought about digital distribution - it actually makes it _harder_ to legally get hold of music that was only officially released in another country's markets, because you can't order an import cd if there was no physical media release, and they are quite hardline about making it impossible to buy from iTunes or Amazon digital from any country other than your own (you can't buy from iTunes US, for example, unless you have a US bank account).

I also wish I could buy audio books without DRM. Librevox is great though, for out-of-copyright stuff - they have some pretty good amateur readers.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,503
3,493
136
Most places you can get audiobooks from are DRM-free. Downpour, eStories, Libro.fm, even Google Play store IIRC.
Ha, that's my old-man ignorance then - I only ever hear about Audible. Should look into that. Ta.
(I don't want to have to use an app, just plain audio files that I can use on my old-school dedicated digital music player)
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
10,396
408
136
Ha, that's my old-man ignorance then - I only ever hear about Audible. Should look into that. Ta.
(I don't want to have to use an app, just plain audio files that I can use on my old-school dedicated digital music player)
Yeah, Audible is the 800 pound gorilla when it comes to audiobooks, and though Amazon promised they'd move away from DRM years ago, it's still there to this day. Fortunately, other services exist.
 

Modular

Diamond Member
Jul 1, 2005
5,027
67
91
a huge chunk of hit games were mods from games from the 90's, dota 2 and league of legends being prime examples that spawned from the warcraft and starcraft modding scene in the late 90's and early 2000's.
I absolutely fell in love with FarCry in the early 2000's. Both for it's multiplayer (which hasn't been replicated at all since) and it's mod community for both SP and MP.

The Matto Mod was an unbelievably enjoyable SP rework of the game.

All that to say - I agree with you. Look at Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Part of the appeal and much of the continued enjoyment of those games comes from their modding communities. I'd wager that's why games no longer have level editors; they negate the need to buy the newest iteration of the same game that Activision et. all are trying to force on the market each year.
 

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