Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

[Executioner]

Speaking to PC World, Microsoft Corporate Vice President Joe Belfiore explained that Windows 10 is constantly tracking how it operates and how you are using it and sending that information back to Microsoft by default. More importantly he also confirmed that, despite offering some options to turn elements of tracking off, core data collection simply cannot be stopped:

“In the cases where we’ve not provided options, we feel that those things have to do with the health of the system,” he said. “In the case of knowing that our system that we’ve created is crashing, or is having serious performance problems, we view that as so helpful to the ecosystem and so not an issue of personal privacy, that today we collect that data so that we make that experience better for everyone.”

Still, whether or not you agree with Belfiore’s standpoint that this doesn’t invade user privacy, it does seem strange that it has taken Microsoft so long to come clean and admit core Windows 10 background data collection processes cannot be stopped. Instead it gave the impression that turning off all user accessible spying options in Windows 10 settings would provide owners with full privacy – that’s tantamount to spying.

To his credit, Belfiore does recognise the controversial nature of this decision and stresses that:

“We’re going to continue to listen to what the broad public says about these decisions, and ultimately our goal is to balance the right thing happening for the most people – really, for everyone – with complexity that comes with putting in a whole lot of control.”

Interestingly Belfiore himself won’t be around to oversee this as he is about to take a year long sabbatical. When he comes back, however, I suspect this issue will still be raging as Windows and Devices Group head Terry Myerson recently confirmed Windows 10 Enterprise users will be able to disable every single aspect of Microsoft data collection.

This comes in combination with Windows 10 Pro and Enterprise users’ ability to permanently disable automatic updates which are forced upon consumers and shows the growing divide between how Microsoft is treating consumers versus corporations.

So how concerned should users be about Windows 10’s default data collection policies? I would say very.

By default Windows 10 Home is allowed to control your bandwidth usage, install any software it wants whenever it wants (without providing detailed information on what these updates do), display ads in the Start Menu (currently it has been limited to app advertisements), send your hardware details and any changes you make to Microsoft and even log your browser history and keystrokes which the Windows End User Licence Agreement (EULA) states you allow Microsoft to use for analysis.

The good news: even if Belfiore states you cannot switch off everything, editing your privacy settings will disable the worst of these. To find them open the Start menu > Settings > Privacy.

The bad news: despite Belfiore’s pledge “to continue to listen”, Microsoft’s actions (including the impending Windows 7 and Windows 8 upgrade pressure) suggests the company’s recent love for Big Brother tactics is only going to get worse before it gets better…

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...cking/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix

 

[Zahid Iqbal]

its worse than i thought

 

[Raizinman]

You can find fixes for the automatic spying all over the Internet, especially on some of the torrent sites. Yes, it is a big problem which is why many people have not moved from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Whether or not I have anything worth spying on or not is not the point. The point is purchasing software that allows the operating system manufacturer to spy on me is just wrong and to me a violation of my privacy.

 

[Mushkins]

You can find fixes for the automatic spying all over the Internet, especially on some of the torrent sites. Yes, it is a big problem which is why many people have not moved from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Whether or not I have anything worth spying on or not is not the point. The point is purchasing software that allows the operating system manufacturer to spy on me is just wrong and to me a violation of my privacy.

Except your concern is all hot air, because you agreed to the data collection when you installed the OS. There were a good number of "I accept" prompts that detailed all of it.

But you don't get to agree to those statements and then act like they did it behind your back and they're taking advantage of you. If you have a problem with it, don't use the product. It's as simple as that.

 

[master_shake_]

microsoft wants what the rest of the world has and they're going to take it by force!

unless it's this kinda "cannot be turned off"

then wth?

 

[vailr]

What about 3rd party programs, such as:
O&O ShutUp10:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/oo_shutup10.html
Destroy Windows 10 Spying:
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/destroy_windows_10_spying.html

 

[Dude111]

its worse than i thought

Yes.....They are quite desperate in thier attempts!!

 

[bononos]

Not an admission, more like an insistence that telemetry is so embedded into the OS that you can't turn it off. Just like how they said that IE could not be separated from Windows in their earlier antitrust litigation.

 

[cubby1223]

There is a reason why this upgrade was "free". You are not Microsoft's source of revenue. You are Microsoft's unit testing system for their source of revenue.

 

[cubby1223]

Yes, it is a big problem which is why many people have not moved from Windows 7 to Windows 10.

Ummm, the main reason why people have not moved from 7 to 10 has nothing to do with privacy concerns, it's the fact that the automatic upgrade fails to complete like maybe 95% of the time. If Microsoft corrects whatever is causing the snag in the upgrade process, most systems will be upgraded.

 

[cubby1223]

Except your concern is all hot air, because you agreed to the data collection when you installed the OS. There were a good number of "I accept" prompts that detailed all of it.

But you don't get to agree to those statements and then act like they did it behind your back and they're taking advantage of you. If you have a problem with it, don't use the product. It's as simple as that.

Except Windows 7 & 8 machines have been initiating the upgrade without even the slightest user consent, and often the reverse procedure back to Windows 7 fails.

 

[JEDIYoda]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke...rtner=yahootix

Did you even understand the article?? Move along people OP is fearmongering....

 

[JEDIYoda]

its worse than i thought

hahahaha you drank the koolaid!!

 

[Mem]

Ummm, the main reason why people have not moved from 7 to 10 has nothing to do with privacy concerns, it's the fact that the automatic upgrade fails to complete like maybe 95% of the time. If Microsoft corrects whatever is causing the snag in the upgrade process, most systems will be upgraded.

I have had this happen twice so far ie Windows update that has failed to install, however it was easy enough to install it manually from Microsoft's website and yes 100% success rate both times on 10.

I do agree would be nice to have a choice on updates however.
I think Microsoft are trying too hard to make things easy for the average user out there.

Privacy concerns are a bit overblown, do you see anybody here moaning or raising concerns about privacy on Google Android or Apple, let alone when you leave you house and are out in the real world?... Nope you sure don't, so welcome to the 21st century where we are all spied on in one way or another.

Fact is a lot have moved from 7 to 10, I know a few, you'll always get some that don't ie those that stayed on XP and avoided Vista and 7 , then everybody states their own personal reasons why.


Anyway I'm not bothered, if I did not like Win10 I would not use it, it's that simple, privacy issues is not a factor for me.
Auto WU is more of an issue then privacy aspects of 10 for me.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Glad I do not have Win10 installed on any of my computers with the exception of a guest VM (on a Linux host). And I only have one install of Win8.1 which I'll d/g to Win7 come the holiday break.

 

[Rhonda the Sly]

microsoft wants what the rest of the world has and they're going to take it by force!

This statement in how it can be true in many ways. Most any major operating system, application, or website (this website has Scorecard and Google Analytics - I have no experience with these personally) out there will have similar subscriptions to telemetry data, helpful to ongoing maintenance of projects, but it isn't considered nearly as controversial elsewhere.

The only thing that has surprised me is the tech media's response to all of this. While I don't expect the media to cheer Microsoft's position but it's unfortunate they don't even bother to explain what type of data most everybody is collecting, whether it's considered personally identifiable information, how often that data is collected, and how that data is used to shape the product.

About [ScorecardResearch]

Through our global research efforts, ScorecardResearch collects data that assists companies around the world in providing products and services that better meet the needs of consumers. By analyzing general visitation patterns and conducting surveys, ScorecardResearch is able to help companies better understand the likes and dislikes of consumers.

Web Tags
Scorecard Research primarily collects data through the use of web tags. A web tag is code placed by partners on their websites to collect information about general visitation patterns. Web tags are commonly used by companies across the Internet to understand the visitation on their website.

Cookies
In addition, the ScorecardResearch web tag utilizes a cookie. A cookie is a small amount of data, which often includes an anonymous unique identifier that is sent to your browser from a web site and stored on your computer's hard drive. ScorecardResearch uses a combination of web tags and cookies to help websites count users who have visited and seen a page or various parts of a page. We require that any website using our web tags include a notice about their use to collect anonymous traffic data and to state what choices are available to users regarding the use of the information collected. You can opt-out of participating in ScorecardResearch’s web tagging market research by clicking here.

Google Analytics lets you do more than measure sales and conversions. It also gives insights into how visitors find and use your site, and how to keep them coming back.

Also: This article revealed nothing new.

 

[lxskllr]

This statement in how it can be true in many ways. Most any major operating system, application, or website (this website has Scorecard and Google Analytics - I have no experience with these personally) out there will have similar subscriptions to telemetry data, helpful to ongoing maintenance of projects, but it isn't considered nearly as controversial elsewhere.

The only thing that has surprised me is the tech media's response to all of this. While I don't expect the media to cheer Microsoft's position but it's unfortunate they don't even bother to explain what type of data most everybody is collecting, whether it's considered personally identifiable information, how often that data is collected, and how that data is used to shape the product.





Also: This article revealed nothing new.

The difference is websites belong to other people, and are distributed under take it or leave it terms. Not getting into the fact I block all that crapware.

An O/S is supposed to do the bidding of the owner. I'd love to meet the person that says spyware is feature they look for in their software. I look at the threads around here discussing how to circumvent MS's newest antifeatures with amusement. It's like asking how to secure your silverware and whisky from your crackhead nephew you've invited to stay at your house, instead taking the obvious solution of not housing crackheads :^D

 

[tidy]

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[Ham n' Eggs]

I don't have an issue with them collecting anonymous diagnostic data

Ip address?
Does microsoft store a hardware profile/signature of win 10 computers? Given that a license is tied to "the lifetime of the device"

Nah, I don't think that the data collection is anonymous under these circumstances. If the anonymous data can be de-anonymized, then it isn't anonymous

 

[Executioner]

Did you even understand the article?? Move along people OP is fearmongering....

LOL. I'll leave this for you.

 

[tidy]

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[Red Squirrel]

I guess one thing people could do is block all the MS IPs at their firewall as an outgoing rule. Do it at the host name level and IP level. Stop it from calling home period. This would also disable updates unless the update servers are completely separate than you could white list those.

Or you can just call it quits while you're ahead and use Linux. 😛 I still want to look into a decent solution for blocking hostnames network wide though, as it would block all the web based spy crap too.

 

[John Connor]

I can't even imagine a doctors office, a dentist or even a lawyer using this privacy invasion. My doctor and dentist use Win 7 and I bet their IT won't be updating any time soon.

 

[Ham n' Eggs]

You're talking about activation, which isn't the type of "spying" that's being referred to in the OP. Yes, they generate a hardware signature during activation, but do you have any reason to believe that it isn't anonymous? They can generate a hash out of hardware characteristics and store it without having any identifiable info. I can remember the language from the disclaimer that's played to you when you perform a phone activation; "this process is completely anonymous and no personally identifiable information will be collected", or words to that effect.

I think it is a couple of things. The first is that the only way for microsoft to know anything about your computer is if you connect to them directly and then they have your IP address in their server logs.

At this point it's not anonymous:

• At IP address X there's a windows 10 machine.

They also know your equipment so:

• at IP address X there's a windows 10 machine with hash: XYZZYXetc.

You install 20 software programs... does microsoft know what this is? If so then it's:

• at IP address X there's a windows 10 machine with hash: XYZZYXetc with these 20 programs installed. Program 1 version 2.134, Program 2 version: 5.4, Program 3 build: 8.135

at this point microsoft has a pretty darn good fingerprint of your computer and the profile (if not unique) isn't going to be all that common. I'm thinking of the browser fingerprinting analogy. There's probably some OS fingerprinting as well, such as: runs computer screen at resolution X, disables windows 10 settings XYZ.etc.etc.etc. ...All at your IP address since you connected to their computers and their servers have a log of that connection.


Am I missing something or perhaps misunderstanding something or even making implausible assumptions? Who knows. Anyway, already this sounds very un-anonymous.

The "Safety and Reliability Data" is what everyone's losing their shit about. Assuming that Microsoft isn't lying about the contents of this, what exactly is the risk? So a hacker breaks into Microsoft's servers, decrypts the data and makes off with a swag of... anonymous crash reports.

Who is talking about hackers? Does anyone care about hackers with this data? First and foremost, the #1 problem is microsoft having this data which they claim to be anonymous but is de-anonymized by the IP addresses used when windows 10 phones home Microsoft Servers. Even if they discard the IP address data after receiving it, just wait, tomorrow or next week the data with hashes matching your computer will re-connect to Microsoft servers and now the data is de-anonymized again.

It's a mess of spying for anyone who either doesn't know it is happening (most computer users are completely computer illiterate) and for those who know it is happening (but don't understand the aggregatability of all the data they leak into the net) and for those who know it is happening and want to disable it but can't.

Therefore, the only people who deserve this spying are those who understand it completely and are happy to be monitored, recorded and reported back on at headquarters. That's a tiny tiny fraction of current & potential windows 10 users.

IMHO

 

[Ham n' Eggs]

😛 I still want to look into a decent solution for blocking hostnames network wide though, as it would block all the web based spy crap too.

Could this be easily accomplished by placing a tiny linux box in between your home modem (ADSL, Cable or otherwise) and your router? With the linux box configured to run as a local router with dhcp.

I think (could very easily be wrong here):
you could then invisibly monitor your network traffic and set up firewall rules that would block IP addresses (domains also??) network-wide.