Microsoft: 10-25-2003 Europe tries to Avoid U.S. Pitfalls in Microsoft Case

[dmcowen674]

10-25-2003 Europe tries to Avoid U.S. Pitfalls in Microsoft Case

The European Commission (news - web sites) is trying to avoid the same pitfalls that tripped up the United States in its Microsoft case where business practices judged illegal three years ago linger.

U.S. courts ruled that Microsoft triumphed through more than just smart marketing or superior products but relied on the power of its ubiquitous Windows operating system to muscle out competitors.

The market for streaming audio-video media was dominated by RealNetworks until Microsoft integrated its rival offering into Windows.

Competition Commissioner Mario Monti has readied remedies that aim to re-invigorate competition quickly. The European Union (news - web sites) executive wants to force the world's largest software maker to change business practices that it charges have been used to keep challengers at bay.

Microsoft wants the European Union off its back.

Although it has said publicly it is co-operating with the EU, Microsoft is lobbying the U.S. Congress to get Monti to ease off and leave things to the United States, sources have told Reuters in Washington.

But Monti has said he is convinced he has an obligation to millions of European consumers who have no alternative to Microsoft and pay it hefty fees.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
10-25-2003 Europe tries to Avoid U.S. Pitfalls in Microsoft Case

The European Commission (news - web sites) is trying to avoid the same pitfalls that tripped up the United States in its Microsoft case where business practices judged illegal three years ago linger.

U.S. courts ruled that Microsoft triumphed through more than just smart marketing or superior products but relied on the power of its ubiquitous Windows operating system to muscle out competitors.

The market for streaming audio-video media was dominated by RealNetworks until Microsoft integrated its rival offering into Windows.

Competition Commissioner Mario Monti has readied remedies that aim to re-invigorate competition quickly. The European Union (news - web sites) executive wants to force the world's largest software maker to change business practices that it charges have been used to keep challengers at bay.

Microsoft wants the European Union off its back.

Although it has said publicly it is co-operating with the EU, Microsoft is lobbying the U.S. Congress to get Monti to ease off and leave things to the United States, sources have told Reuters in Washington.

But Monti has said he is convinced he has an obligation to millions of European consumers who have no alternative to Microsoft and pay it hefty fees.

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

 

[mastertech01]

That doesnt bother me half as much as the lack of a universal standard. I get sick of wanting to view or listen to a file and see "real player required" or "quicktime player required" I dont want to have to keep a half dozen players to view or listen to the various files on the net.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

Maybe people noticed real player was crap. With all the stuff MS has done I can't they find something better to sue about then they associated .avi, mpeg, ... with mplayer2 and then later with windows bloated media player. Real player trys and stills the associations a lot more then media player. I can't think of one time I installed yet another media player only to have mplayer start up when I click on a movie.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

I don't see what they did wrong they made windows better if you like bloated media players and there bloated media player is better then realplayer. If what they did was good for customers then I see no problem with it. If MS media player was the quality of realplayer and realplayer was good like mplayer2 then yes I'm sure people would see a problem with it.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

I don't see what they did wrong they made windows better if you like bloated media players and there bloated media player is better then realplayer. If what they did was good for customers then I see no problem with it. If MS media player was the quality of realplayer and realplayer was good like mplayer2 then yes I'm sure people would see a problem with it.

the thing is that its not about what people feel, it is about the laws, the laws forbid exactyly this kind of thing

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

I don't see what they did wrong they made windows better if you like bloated media players and there bloated media player is better then realplayer. If what they did was good for customers then I see no problem with it. If MS media player was the quality of realplayer and realplayer was good like mplayer2 then yes I'm sure people would see a problem with it.

the thing is that its not about what people feel, it is about the laws, the laws forbid exactyly this kind of thing

There is no law that forbids a company from improving one of their products.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

I don't see what they did wrong they made windows better if you like bloated media players and there bloated media player is better then realplayer. If what they did was good for customers then I see no problem with it. If MS media player was the quality of realplayer and realplayer was good like mplayer2 then yes I'm sure people would see a problem with it.

the thing is that its not about what people feel, it is about the laws, the laws forbid exactyly this kind of thing

There is no law that forbids a company from improving one of their products.

there is a law against companies who have a dominating position in one area to use that position to use that position to push forth another product in competition against another compnies

 

[Ferocious]

They will avoid the biggest pitfalls quite easily.

They don't have Ashcroft and Bush to worry about.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

Ahhh, so refreshing to see the occasional person on here that gets it. Kudos Czar.

Competition and a Democracy are about choice. Take away choice in either Private or Public sector and what do you have???

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: charrison

The only problem is that media player has been in windows,since at least 3.1. Maybe Realnetworks should make a better media player.

Wow, did you miss the whole point completely.

Back then The Media Player was an independent application. You had to click on or fire up the program for it to work. Now Media player is integrated into the operating system and difficult to turn it off to allow any other Players to work. It's the Browser situation all over again.

Did you completely miss what i said. Media player was an included application back in windows 3.1. The current media player does not prevent any other media player from being installed..

first lets start by doing this
edt: and this
ok now, difference is that most users dont bother installing other players if they dont have to. In the case of Realplayer (hate that pos) then it had a certain amount of user base which those who wanted to stream stuff looked at. Then Microsoft decides it wants some of that pie and create wmv which is a direct competition to rm files, they put that support in Windows but not rm, this instantly creates a much much much larger userbase for wmv streaming. Realnetworks or other streaming companies just cant in no way compete with that.

I totaly agree what someone here said, there should be a standard and all players should be able to play all codecs and all codecs should be auto downloaded as needed. That would mean that microsoft could continue to pimp out wmv files and Realnetworks with rm files but we would all be playing the files on a Microsoft player or a Realnetworks player or some other player ( Go Media Player Classic )

Ahhh, so refreshing to see the occasional person on here that gets it. Kudos Czar.

Competition and a Democracy are about choice. Take away choice in either Private or Public sector and what do you have???

It is Microsoft's choice as to what is included with their operating system, and it is the consumer's choice at to what operating system they use. Windows includes Windows Media Player. Don't like it? Download a different media program, don't buy Windows, or make your own OS. It is so simple, I don't see where the problem lies...

 

[zephyrprime]

... with mplayer2 and then later with windows bloated media player.

media player isn't bloated. I just tried running it and it only take ~8MB of memory. The xvid player with the same file wook 24MB. Quicktime with a lower res file took 20MB.