"Micro" ATX Mobos VS. ATX Mobos

[Budarow]

Other then the smaller size, what features do the mATX boards "usually" lose to their full sized counter parts?? Are the buses typically the same speed for video cards, HDs, etc.? The mATX boards are smaller and cheaper...somethings gotta give, but I don't know what?

I've got this mental block when it comes to buying a mATX mobo. Even if I don't notice any features missing which I feel I must have in a mobo, I can't get over the feeling like I'm not getting something with a mATX board which I may want later.

To me, it sorta like buying a PC desktop case. I always buy the BIGGEST case possible (for the price of course) thinking that I may need to live inside their some day or something

 

[tcsenter]

See for yourself, the dotted red line delineates where to cut the ATX board in order to make its mATX counterpart:


Intel D845GEBV2 (ATX) v. RG2 (mATX)

Intel D865GBF (ATX) v. GLC (mATX)

Intel D925XECV2 (ATX) v. BC2 (mATX)

Intel DG33FB (ATX) v. BU (mATX)

Intel DG965RY (ATX) v. SS (mATX)

Intel DG965WH (ATX) v. OT (mATX)

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Budarow
I can't get over the feeling like I'm not getting something with a mATX board which I may want later.

You aren't getting three of the expansion slots.

 

[AmberClad]

* It's very uncommon to see mATX boards that support SLi/multiple PCIe x16 slots -- I'm not sure if there are any that support Core 2.

* In general, there are fewer SATA pinouts. Four seems to be a common number, whereas with regular ATX, I've seen as many as eight.

* Multiple Ethernet ports also seem to be uncommon

* Somewhat squished/cramped/awkward layouts. My IDE slot is in a rather odd location (next to PCI slot 2). And one of the board capacitors is nearly touching the capacitors on my 8800 GTS -- a GTX or Ultra would likely require bending the board capacitor over.

 

[gorobei]

everything the others mentioned, with occasionally less raid/firewire options and some enthusiast overclocking bangs and whistles. There are few/none that have heatpipes on the northbridge, southbridge, or pwm circuits. Probably no dual BIOS boards out either. Maybe lose a secondary fan header.

What you gain is usually an IGP and possibly some tv-out possibilities. If your video card fails/a driver ganks your display settings, you can pull out the card and use the IGP to test/diagnose. Some of the old 965G boards supposedly allowed you to use a discrete vid card with two ports at the same time as the IGP port (= being able to use 3 monitors on one system without sli issues or matrox triplehead2go.)

 

[Zap]

On the flip side of "missing" or "less" features, probably around 9 out of 10 ATX systems I see at LAN parties could have their motherboards switched out for a mATX without impacting any performance/overclock/features that the owner was actually using. With typical home systems, that's pretty darn near 10/10.

For myself, the potential smaller case size usually makes up for anything real or perceived that mATX might be "missing."

 

[hans007]

i would say for most people you will lose nothing. ATX is considered the enthusiast platform now so if you overclock you'll get something, as more and more companies go to microATX.

most big box brands dont even have ATX machines anymore outside of their "gaming" lines. i.e. dell, hp, compaq , gateway etc.

i'd say boards will probably all have an igp eventually it keeps the number of skus lower. the p35 and g33 for example are even the same chip, the p35 just is a g33 with video disabled (igps are such big business, that its pointless for intel to make chipsets without them). check the die size on their spec sheets and you'll see its the same.


with mostly useless pci-e x1 slots, the typical mAtx config is 1 x16, 1 x1, and 2 pci, vs 1 x16 , 3 pci and 3x1 pci-e on an ATX . x1 pci-e is useless for 95% of people so basically you lose 1 pci slot.

i dont really think microATX has less sata ports. generally you can get raid versions of anychipsets on microATX , just higher end ATX boards tend to have supplementary sata controllers and might even have say 10 sata ports.

i suppose you basicalyl lose nvidia sli chipsets outside of that one evga socket 939 sli board mATX that was made. other than that i'd say you lose nothing. ATX i think is more or less just for enthusiasts anyway at this point, i would not be surprised to see mainstream ATX boards (i.e. non enthusiast boards, without say the x38 or x48 current chipset's target audience) disappear over the next year or 2.

i think the best idea i've seen is what ASUS / MSI implements on some of their HP oem boards. there is a expander card on the edge of some of their MicroATX boards, that turns it into a full ATX board (well it just adds 2 pci slots) . would make everyone happy, just make every board microATX and save us all $5, and if you want 2 more pci slots you can buy the extender.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: hans007
i would say for most people you will lose nothing. . . .

ditto - and maybe gain something in the vein of "less is more".

I pretty much switched to uATX a year and a half ago. OCing wasn't as capable then as it is now but I didn't need to OC every pc. Starting with the 6150, the igp is good enough for most things - even dual monitors. A GPU can be added later if needed. I particularly like the smaller case format. My favorite is the Antec nsk3300 which is now the nsk3480. This can be make to be very quiet after upgrading the fans. It's pretty much a one hd/one dvd pc.

 

[Budarow]

Thanks a LOT everyone I won't shy away from any more mATX mobos cause with so much functionality being built into mATX boards (e.g., ethernet, USB/Firewire headers, better on-board sound, etc.), I don't see any need for more than 2 PCI slots (1 to upgrade the sound card and 1 for a tv tuner/video capture card).

Best Regards,

Bud

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: hans007
i would not be surprised to see mainstream ATX boards (i.e. non enthusiast boards, without say the x38 or x48 current chipset's target audience) disappear over the next year or 2.

I don't see them disappearing simply because of the perceptions of many self-proclaimed enthusiasts.

I do see more and better mATX boards though. :thumbsup: There's gonna be some good Q35 and G35 mATX boards out there. Asus is coming out with (or already did) a Q35 chipset mATX board with 6 onboard SATA RAID ports, for all you pr0n collectors out there with multiple drives.

Originally posted by: Budarow
I don't see any need for more than 2 PCI slots (1 to upgrade the sound card and 1 for a tv tuner/video capture card).

TV tuner cards are rapidly going to PCI-E 1x, and you'd be suprised at how reasonable HD audio sounds. Also, if you're going Vista, then any sound card is just a DAC, so you're not getting "better" surround sound or lower CPU utilization from any PCI card.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Zap
I don't see them disappearing simply because of the perceptions of many

Kinda like 600+ watt psu's.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: Zap
I don't see them disappearing simply because of the perceptions of many

Kinda like 600+ watt psu's.

Yeah well, overkill PSUs are like special ed...

J/K!!!

It can be argued that if you have a super loaded machine and you don't want to run the PSU close to maximum output (60% is probably good for longetivity sake) then perhaps a high output PSU is needed. We're talking about overclocked quadcore, dual 8800GTX/Ultra, half dozen HDDs, numerous fans, etc. Of course one can argue the "need" of dual GPUs and extra pr0n-holding HDDs, and whether the case-windtunnel is a hazard to children and small pets, but that's for another day.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Zap
whether the case-windtunnel is a hazard to children and small pets,

:laugh:

I've always felt that if the pc doesn't need four 2000rpm 120mm fans, it's just not powerful enough.

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: hans007
i would say for most people you will lose nothing. . . .

ditto - and maybe gain something in the vein of "less is more".

I pretty much switched to uATX a year and a half ago. OCing wasn't as capable then as it is now but I didn't need to OC every pc. Starting with the 6150, the igp is good enough for most things - even dual monitors. A GPU can be added later if needed. I particularly like the smaller case format. My favorite is the Antec nsk3300 which is now the nsk3480. This can be make to be very quiet after upgrading the fans. It's pretty much a one hd/one dvd pc.

i actually have both the 3300 and 3480.

yes i know off topic, but the 3480 is noisier ... the EA380 power supply does make some sound, the su-300 in the 3300 is a seasonic .. much quieter, but then again much more limited. i am thinking i might have to get a NEO he 430 to replace the ea380 in the nsk3480. other bad thing is the EA380 has so many cables that it basically blocks a drive bay.

 

[imported_Kreed]

You can always replace the fan in the EA380 with a medium speed 80mm Panaflo. That should keep it reasonably quiet.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: hans007
the 3480 is noisier ... the EA380 power supply does make some sound, the su-300 in the 3300 is a seasonic .. much quieter

Funny about that - when there was rumor of a replacement with a larger psu, I suspected this would happen and purchased a couple of returns as spares for 50/each. Turns out this was smart - for once... The ea380 may not be much louder but has more annoying characteristics though it is more efficient. The ea380 in the 3480 had to be flipped upside down since as shipped the 24pin cable would not reach the mb connector - three inches short. I ended up replacing it with a Seasonic 330II - still not as quiet as the su300. A Corsair 520hx wouldn't physically fit - 150mm deep vs. 140mm - so much for the advertised standard atx psu. I tested a hd in the upper compartment - too hot for my tastes.

Don't know how far off topic this is since the availability of decent uATX cases is one of the things keeping people from uATX mb's.

I'll try the fan swap eventually.

 

[rbk123]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Don't know how far off topic this is since the availability of decent uATX cases is one of the things keeping people from uATX mb's.

This, plus the existing base of all the purchased ATX cases. Those users aren't going to be thrilled about having to buy a new case for the next upgrade (in addition to CPU, memory, motherboard, whatever).

 

[seemingly random]

Every existing ATX case can accommodate a uATX mb though they do look kind of silly.

Every component - cpu, ram, GPU, etc. - that can be used on an ATX mb can be used on a uATX mb. Some big hsf's might be space constrained but the same goes for some ATX mb's. Some very small uATX cases require half-height cards.

---

Fixed link.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
Every existing ATX case can accommodate a uATX mb though they do look kind of silly.

"500 Internal Server Error" does indeed look silly :laugh:. But I can imagine what that picture might have been. A little mATX board strapped into an enormous full tower with half a dozen unfilled drive bays and enough empty space to use as a wine cellar ?

 

[hans007]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: hans007
the 3480 is noisier ... the EA380 power supply does make some sound, the su-300 in the 3300 is a seasonic .. much quieter

Funny about that - when there was rumor of a replacement with a larger psu, I suspected this would happen and purchased a couple of returns as spares for 50/each. Turns out this was smart - for once... The ea380 may not be much louder but has more annoying characteristics though it is more efficient. The ea380 in the 3480 had to be flipped upside down since as shipped the 24pin cable would not reach the mb connector - three inches short. I ended up replacing it with a Seasonic 330II - still not as quiet as the su300. A Corsair 520hx wouldn't physically fit - 150mm deep vs. 140mm - so much for the advertised standard atx psu. I tested a hd in the upper compartment - too hot for my tastes.

Don't know how far off topic this is since the availability of decent uATX cases is one of the things keeping people from uATX mb's.

I'll try the fan swap eventually.

yeah i had to flip the ea380 also. i've had a neo 430 before and with the removeable plugs it should work great.. so i'm waiting for the next deal on that (its not a pressing need).

i mean its pretty stupid the ea380 has like 4 sata plugs and a ton of 4 pin molex etc.
but the nsk3480 only has 3 drive bays or so. so all the extra calbes just get in the way of the 2nd 5.25 bay / 3.5" bay.

its one real advantage over the nsk3300 is it has more amps and has a 6 pin pci-e

 

[seemingly random]

http://images.tomshardware.com...eter/t7600-inside2.jpg

Curious that it works on my pc. I always test links before I post so as not to annoy people. This one looks particularly cavernous.

It's from http://www.tomshardware.com/20..._as_quieter/page4.html

 

[AmberClad]

THG might block offsite linking to their images. You probably already have the image cached from when you read the review, so your browser probably didn't bother requesting the image again, through the link you posted here.

So, as far as that image, I think my guess was pretty spot on, no ? Not just cavernous, that thing probably weighs more empty than my fully loaded case! Full steel construction.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: AmberClad
THG might block offsite linking to their images.

You were spot on (always wanted to say that...). After rebooting, I get "Internal Server Error" in FireFox. Learned something useful today.

I suppose considering the source one shouldn't question things, but how inappropriate for a new build. I feel for the uninitiated that follow the 'authoritative' advice of that site.