Micro ATX Case & Ram

[Xenon14]

I want to spend $200 max. I have an Opteron 144 which I plan to overclock.

I want a Micro ATX Case (power supply optional if conventional size PSU fits). Also... the new MOBO has 24 pin PSU connection, so can i still use my old one?

And I need 1gb of ram, that will allow me to overclock my Opteron 144 (aiming for 2.4-2.7ghz).

What to get? Thanks.

 

[mwmorph]

atx psus will not fit in matx cases.
value ram is fine. spend as much as you can on case/psu and as little as you can on ram.
Corsair value select is like $70 a gig(512mbx2)
here
ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227006
case
(depends on what form factor you want, desktop, mid tower, mini tower, or those realyl samll square thingys)

 

[foodfightr]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
atx psus will not fit in matx cases.
value ram is fine. spend as much as you can on case/psu and as little as you can on ram.
Corsair value select is like $70 a gig(512mbx2)
here
ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227006
case
(depends on what form factor you want, desktop, mid tower, mini tower, or those realyl samll square thingys)

Hrm... can't say I agree. If you are overclocking I would advise getting good ram and skimping on the case. Either way, overclocking on a little PSU sounds expensive, just make sure your PSU rails are rock stable or you'll get headaches!

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: foodfightr

Originally posted by: mwmorph
atx psus will not fit in matx cases.
value ram is fine. spend as much as you can on case/psu and as little as you can on ram.
Corsair value select is like $70 a gig(512mbx2)
here
ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227006
case
(depends on what form factor you want, desktop, mid tower, mini tower, or those realyl samll square thingys)

Hrm... can't say I agree. If you are overclocking I would advise getting good ram and skimping on the case. Either way, overclocking on a little PSU sounds expensive, just make sure your PSU rails are rock stable or you'll get headaches!

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1475190&enterthread=y
overclocking r and ram dont have to be done together, running your ram at a different speed from the cpu really dosent change performance unless all you do is run sysnthetic(useless, like sisoft sandra) benchmarks all your life).

It's a much better value to go value ram and run a divider since a good case and great psu provide much better results for ocing(better airflow, better voltage control, etc)

 

[foodfightr]

I still don't see how you can tie in a case to OC'ing. Essentially it has nothing to do with your performance, you could nail your mobo to a piece of plywood and stick it outside of your window in the middle of winter and get amazing cooling, but low latency will make a difference.

There are plenty of cheap cases with good air flow!

And as far as voltage goes, increasing voltage only becomes a problem when heat is a problem. If you are planning for suicidal clocks above 1.6V you may need a better heatsink to eliminate heat as a problem, but that has nothing to do with the fact that voltage, and voltage alone, may fry your chip.

 

[Xenon14]

Ok, so bottom line...What performance difference am i looking at: if in Scenerio 1: i stick with the 2700 DDR ram i have now, and overclock my Opteron to say 2.6 ghz. and in Scenerio 2: i get new stick of faster ram & o/c opteron to 2.6ghz as well?

 

[foodfightr]

Originally posted by: Xenon14
Ok, so bottom line...What performance difference am i looking at: if in Scenerio 1: i stick with the 2700 DDR ram i have now, and overclock my Opteron to say 2.6 ghz. and in Scenerio 2: i get new stick of faster ram & o/c opteron to 2.6ghz as well?

And I need 1gb of ram, that will allow me to overclock my Opteron 144 (aiming for 2.4-2.7ghz).

You never mentioned that using your current ram was an option! It depends entirely on the specifications. As far as ram is concerned you can upgrade for lower latency or higher frequency (or both!).

8 (Cpu Multi) * 250 (HTT w/ Ram 1:1) = 2000Mhz is faster than:
10 (Cpu Multi) * 200 (HTT w/ Ram 1:10) = 2000Mhz

Now if your timings go from 6-4-5-16 to 2-3-2-5 or 3-4-4-8, you will absolutely notice a huge difference.

But, on your budget you have to weigh:

1. The "coolness" of the case versus the cost.
2. Finding a power supply that will fit that form factor and provide sturdy rails for overclocking.
3. The performance boost of using new ram.

It is all about what is important to you.

 

[Diasper]

Aspire X Qpack for the case. It has a rear 120mm which will provide good cooling - undervolt it to make the noise more resonable IMO. Afterwards, just add a Zalman 7000 as your heatsink - fits and you should be sorted.

Just on the case, if you have a short optical drive you can fit a standard size ATX power supply if you want to replace the pretty rubbish one that comes with the case.

Alternatively if you get right angle molex connectors you can have both a standard length PSU and optical in there.

POwer supplies like modstream and powerstream are larger than standard ATX as far as I'm aware

 

[Technonut]

Originally posted by: Diasper
Aspire X Qpack for the case. It has a rear 120mm which will provide good cooling - undervolt it to make the noise more resonable IMO. Afterwards, just add a Zalman 7000 as your heatsink - fits and you should be sorted.

Just on the case, if you have a short optical drive you can fit a standard size ATX power supply if you want to replace the pretty rubbish one that comes with the case.

Alternatively if you get right angle molex connectors you can have both a standard length PSU and optical in there.

POwer supplies like modstream and powerstream are larger than standard ATX as far as I'm aware

It seems to be a nice case.... I just ordered This One the other day. I thought it was a good deal, especially with the instant $10.00 off.

I plan on replacing the PSU right away, but it is no big deal since I usually end up replacing most PSUs that are included with cases....

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: foodfightr
I still don't see how you can tie in a case to OC'ing. Essentially it has nothing to do with your performance, you could nail your mobo to a piece of plywood and stick it outside of your window in the middle of winter and get amazing cooling, but low latency will make a difference.

There are plenty of cheap cases with good air flow!

And as far as voltage goes, increasing voltage only becomes a problem when heat is a problem. If you are planning for suicidal clocks above 1.6V you may need a better heatsink to eliminate heat as a problem, but that has nothing to do with the fact that voltage, and voltage alone, may fry your chip.

yes, the most optimal vase is actually to screw your motherboard on a piece of plywood and leave it in the open for better temps, but that can be hazardous to your computer and it's aa eyesore. Temps from a better case and the ease of upgrading when the case is screwlessi s a big thig. also a well laid out case will impreove airflow and cool the cpu allowing highger ocs. Cheap cases usually have thinner metal and thus are much more fragile to bearound, look cheap in general and dont posess the hgh quality psu a shuttle or some name brand does. A good psu is needed so your voltages are STABLE
Unless you want t rish ocing with a 11.9V on your +12 rail and 4.5 on your 5V rail, which will cause instant system crash, It'as always a good idea toget a better psu that can keep your rail voltages in spec under heavy load like ocing.

Obviosuly you havent read up oenough on ocing, I suggest you read around in the cpu/motherboard forums for a while.
ram latency andspeed sdosnet affect anything at all on the amd64s. there is no reason to upgrade past pc3200 value cas3 ram unless the only use for the pc is winrar 24/7.

 

[piasabird]

I have seen reviews of the X-Qpack claiming the power supply was a piece of junk.

 

[robphelan]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have seen reviews of the X-Qpack claiming the power supply was a piece of junk.

i've had the qpack for ~ 6months or so.. some people have had problems with the PSU, some haven't. i think the newer cases have better PSUs, though.

i never had a problem with mine... but i already had an OCZ modstream in the closet so i threw it in.

the Qpack is a great case... not so small like a shuttle - you can fit 2 optical drives, 2 HDDs, my zalman 7000 Cu fits fine and so does my 7800 GT CO.

 

[foodfightr]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: foodfightr
I still don't see how you can tie in a case to OC'ing. Essentially it has nothing to do with your performance, you could nail your mobo to a piece of plywood and stick it outside of your window in the middle of winter and get amazing cooling, but low latency will make a difference. There are plenty of cheap cases with good air flow!

yes, the most optimal vase is actually to screw your motherboard on a piece of plywood and leave it in the open for better temps, but that can be hazardous to your computer and it's aa eyesore.

Well, if you couldn't tell that was sarcasm then I don't know what to say. I was making a point that you don't have to spend a lot of money on an expensive case to get good air cooling, you can get great air cooling in cases that don't cost much at all.

Originally posted by: mwmorph Temps from a better case and the ease of upgrading when the case is screwless is a big thig.

When you are on a budget, why in the world would you spend money for parts that have literally no impact on your performance when you could buy parts for the computer that will actually run faster? I can't spell it out any simplier, screwless design is *NOT* as important as fast parts.

Originally posted by: mwmorph Obviosuly you havent read up oenough on ocing, I suggest you read around in the cpu/motherboard forums for a while. ram latency andspeed sdosnet affect anything at all on the amd64s.

I can't believe you went as far as a personal attack. I checked your signature and you don't even know what your motherboard is. For motherboard you put (Asus Salmon? According to CPU-Z).

This weekend alone I've overclocked and benchmarked two X2 3800s (CCBWE 0541 SPMW, LDBHE 0540 XPMW The second is my buddies chip in my testbed, finding his max clock at 1.5V) and an opteron 170 (CCBWE 0543 TPMW) and I'll be making a purchase for an Opteron 165 this week.

Switching from 10*200 to 8*250 boosts my PC MARK 05 score by 200 points alone and that isn't even including the massive drop in latency switching from value ram to good ram. (Hrmm doesn't affect anything at all huh?)

Don't give advice about things you don't know about.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: foodfightr

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: foodfightr
I still don't see how you can tie in a case to OC'ing. Essentially it has nothing to do with your performance, you could nail your mobo to a piece of plywood and stick it outside of your window in the middle of winter and get amazing cooling, but low latency will make a difference. There are plenty of cheap cases with good air flow!

yes, the most optimal vase is actually to screw your motherboard on a piece of plywood and leave it in the open for better temps, but that can be hazardous to your computer and it's aa eyesore.

Well, if you couldn't tell that was sarcasm then I don't know what to say. I was making a point that you don't have to spend a lot of money on an expensive case to get good air cooling, you can get great air cooling in cases that don't cost much at all.

Originally posted by: mwmorph Temps from a better case and the ease of upgrading when the case is screwless is a big thig.

When you are on a budget, why in the world would you spend money for parts that have literally no impact on your performance when you could buy parts for the computer that will actually run faster? I can't spell it out any simplier, screwless design is *NOT* as important as fast parts.

Originally posted by: mwmorph Obviosuly you havent read up oenough on ocing, I suggest you read around in the cpu/motherboard forums for a while. ram latency andspeed sdosnet affect anything at all on the amd64s.

I can't believe you went as far as a personal attack. I checked your signature and you don't even know what your motherboard is. For motherboard you put (Asus Salmon? According to CPU-Z).

This weekend alone I've overclocked and benchmarked two X2 3800s (CCBWE 0541 SPMW, LDBHE 0540 XPMW The second is my buddies chip in my testbed, finding his max clock at 1.5V) and an opteron 170 (CCBWE 0543 TPMW) and I'll be making a purchase for an Opteron 165 this week.

Switching from 10*200 to 8*250 boosts my PC MARK 05 score by 200 points alone and that isn't even including the massive drop in latency switching from value ram to good ram. (Hrmm doesn't affect anything at all huh?)

Don't give advice about things you don't know about.

hmm did you read the official memory matrix?

or how bot the fact ythat real life performance is not measured by pcmark?

Maybe you want ot check the game benches or real world app benchies at resolutino he'll play at?

Farcry 1600x1200 in FPS
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 68.14
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 71.31
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 73.52
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 74.42
But only ~8% faster than value ram. hint: spend the xtra $100 on a better video card. Notice async low latency Ballistix owning all even 1:1 TCCD.

Doom3 1024x768 in FPS
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 80.3
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 81.4
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 82.3
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 82.4
No signifigant difference above PC3000

Doom3 1600x1200 in FPS
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 44.6
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 44.6
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 44.6
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 44.5
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 44.6
Video card limitation here...

Half-life 2 1024x768 in FPS
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 120.9
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 131.6
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 133.3
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 134.4
We see low timings here credited with speed since PC3000LL is basically equivalent to PC4700. Overall nothing big above PC 3000.

Half-life 2 1600x1200 in FPS
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 98.77
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 102.5
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 106.0
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 107.9
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 107.3
Same as above. Save your money. [/Q

Science Mark- Molecular Dynamics time in seconds
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 67.03
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 66.92
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 66.68
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 66.69
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 66.47
Seems bandwidth has no effect here.

CineBench 2003 Rendering
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 363
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 365
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 366
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 368
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 367
Seems bandwidth has no effect here.

CineBench 2003 Rendering
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 363
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 365
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 366
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 368
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 367
Seems bandwidth has no effect here.

CineBench 2003 OpenGL SW
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 1949
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 1992
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 2019
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 2032
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 2034
Infinitesmal bandwidth help

CineBench 2003 OpenGL HW
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 3568
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 3662
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 3756
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 3781
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 3796
this is getting old, on to another game.

UT2003 10x7 Flyby
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 297
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 319
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 334
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 341
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 345
14% max boost, hey but very small difference with value ram.

Pifast in seconds
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 38.91
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 36.53
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 35.48
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 34.67
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 34.45
We see bandwitdh have *some* effect here..nothing to write home about. PC2300 vs PC4700 is 10.9% faster, but very small difference vs. value ra

Superpi 1M in seconds
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 37
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 34
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 33
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 32
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T -32
Similar as above. Nothing drastic at anything above PC3000

Winrar in KB/s
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 496
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 564
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 636
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 651
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T - 703!!!
Here we see pretty signifigant gains due to bandwidth 41% diff top to bottom. This test obviously is very beneficial to have bandwidth or LL. Update: Crucial Ballistix owning all, Winrar seems the like LL even more than bandwidth. We sorta saw this already by the very close scores of PC3000 LL VS PC4700 high bandwitdh.

Lame in seconds
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 56
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 56
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 56
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 56
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T -56
Seems bandwidth or LL has no effect here.

Chess2.pov in seconds
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 246
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 245
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 246
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 247
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T -246
Seems bandwidth or LL has no effect here.

DVDShrink in seconds
PC2300 - 3-3-3 1T- 243
PC3000 - 3-3-3 1T- 235
PC3000 - 2-2-2 1T- 228
PC4700 - 3-4-3 1T- 221
PC3800 - 2.5-2-2-1T -224
DVDShrink seems to like bandwidth a little bit.

Summary of Results
Well there it was. While sandra likes to show whopping 70% increased bandwidth of expensive TCCD it really does'nt translate to real world . Only one area seemed signifigant was winrar. The couple game tests which slow slight inprovement with bandwidth or LL, I think you're much better of upgrading to the next tier of video card if on a budget instead of investing with overpriced ram. Investing in expensive Ram probably offers to poorest bang for the buck of any computer part. What's intesting was Ballistix's async 166 and LL the performance faired a little better than TCCD 1:1. Seems A64 prefers LL rather than bandwidth? Also shows that running async is'nt to be shunned.

Course if you want the best, go right ahead and invest in expensive ram, as shown it makes a slight difference in gaming and winrar but I'm sticking with $130 2x512 value ram and use a divider from now on because the price to performance ratio is simply not worth it. IMO You're much better off using that cash for the next level of video card which really does boost performance by ~70% in games.

One other thing of intrest is PC3000 running async 133 at low timings 2-2-2 was almost as good as PC4700 high bandwidth but loose timings TCCD is forced to run at 290Mhz.... many a ram can do ~200Mhz 2-2-2.

So you think he should overpay for ram instead of a stable psu why? for [worthless] winrar and sandra bragging rights?

yeah.. if you actually knew anything which I truly doubt, then you would know a stable psu and good airflow in a case trumps TCCD or LL ram for cpu overclocking. By being able to hold evin a miniscule 20mhz higher stable overclock with the increased airflow allowing cooler running and the increasd stability of the psu rails easily trumps high speed/ll ram.

Butthen of course you think it's stupid to invest in stability of a psu rail/ higher amperage for psu rails and improved cooling because those things dont factor at all into a oc. :roll:

Why dont you just throw your heatsink/fan out the windoww and connect a 240w value mATX psu and try to oc it then huh?

Apeperantly those idiots using liquid nitrogen and massive pc&p 850w psus are idiots because they can achieve the same ocs with a 240w value psu and air cooling in a poorly designed case.

 

[foodfightr]

Originally posted by: mwmorph Apeperantly those idiots using liquid nitrogen and massive pc&p 850w psus are idiots because they can achieve the same ocs with a 240w value psu and air cooling in a poorly designed case.

Really? I'm sure they get 3500 Mhz AMD Dual Core like that.

I said to get a stable PSU from the begining. You NEVER told him to buy a heatsink.

I'm all for a good POWER SUPPLY, a good HEATSINK and good RAM. But I don't think if you're on a budget you should splurge for a case because it has a screwless design.

I think that fact that you have three rigs in your signature and for the motherboard you put:

Game Box: Asus Salmon (? According to CPU-Z)
Crap Box: Asus Unknown
Lappy Rig: Unknown Unkown

speaks for itself! You don't even know what parts you are using! Go post that spending a lot of money on a case will get you a faster overclock then putting your budget elsewhere on XtremeSystems, ExtremeOverclocking or DFI-Street and we'll have a field day replying to that post. Believe me, they won't be as nice as I'm trying to be.

I think I'll let the OP decide for himself, I've posted three CPU-Zs from overclocking a different dual core chip on Saturday, Sunday AND Today. I think that he is smart enough to tell that a case that is "screw less" won't help his overclock.

The next poster to continue this personal bickering will get a vacation. Everyone is warned to cease this childish behavior immediately.

AnandTech Moderator