Micro-ATX Case/MoBos?

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Hi, I'm trying to build a good, quiet Micro-ATX system, since I'm tired of my huge, loud mega-tower. I'm having trouble, though, finding good motherboard reviews and good case recommendations/reviews. The closest thing I've seen is the roundup on Tom's, but they wound up not recommending any of the cases, and don't review the mobos.

So... any suggestions on motherboards and cases? I'm looking at the only AMD micro-ATX PCIe mobo they sell on Newegg, the Asus, but I have no idea if the chipset is any good. As well, I have no idea what cases are good. I'm looking for something good-looking, sturdy, well-built, hopefully not too expensive (but I'm willing to pay more for an excellent case), and QUIET.

Thanks!

 

[Traire]

The Antec Sonata is a good case.

As for the mobo, there are VERY few 754 mATX boards out there, and even fewer 939's.

One possible suggestion would be to look at a Shuttle or Biostar SFF case/mobo package. That would probably be the easiest way to start a 939 SFF build. You should be able to find a Shuttle 939 nF3 based system fairly easily, and the nF4 systems should be out pretty soon. Look under the "Barebone Systems" section of Newegg for the SFF's. Here is Shuttle's 939 SFF. ~$300

Anandtech should have the 939 SFF roundup done in a week or two, and will hopefully have the new Shuttle nF4 system included.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Thanks, I'll take a look at the Sonata. As for motherboards, this one looks pretty good for my purposes... any comments? Opinions?

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-518&depa=1

 

[GnomeCop]

are you insanely rich? heheh you can go buy a falcon northwest fragbox case and psu for your matx system.

seriously though, if you are looking for a case, the sonata is not a bad way to go, just stick to ATX cases, the matx cases out there predominantly suck.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Oh :/ I was hoping specifically to get a mATX case, as I'd like a small form-factor system. I've heard that Shuttles are good, and the Antec Aria looks to be pretty solid.

(And no, I'm not insanely rich )

 

[Bar81]

Originally posted by: jethroqwalrustitty
Hi, I'm trying to build a good, quiet Micro-ATX system, since I'm tired of my huge, loud mega-tower. I'm having trouble, though, finding good motherboard reviews and good case recommendations/reviews. The closest thing I've seen is the roundup on Tom's, but they wound up not recommending any of the cases, and don't review the mobos.

So... any suggestions on motherboards and cases? I'm looking at the only AMD micro-ATX PCIe mobo they sell on Newegg, the Asus, but I have no idea if the chipset is any good. As well, I have no idea what cases are good. I'm looking for something good-looking, sturdy, well-built, hopefully not too expensive (but I'm willing to pay more for an excellent case), and QUIET.

Thanks!

If you're looking at the one based on the SiS 760GX chipset + 965L then don't worry it's a fast stable chipset, as good as anything Intel has ever built.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Bar81: Yes! That's the one I was looking at Thanks. Now, just to find a good mATX case and a fast video card that won't melt it....

 

[cubby1223]

The inwin cases are very nice with great psu's. The PSU is whisper quiet, the rear case fan you'll probably want disconnected if you're going for silence, or if you have a lower RPM alternative that would work. It's not loud by any means, but definately not silent.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-108-321&depa=1

 

[L00PY]

The key to a good mATX cases is cooling. Check out the fan sizes in the case. Try to avoid ones with only 60mm fans in the rear. Definately avoid ones without any rear exhausts.

The newest mATX case out there that I rather like is the Enermax Venus. It has two 80mm fans in back (like the discontinued Silverstone GD98-LED). It also comes in a variety of colors.

Unless there's an expansion card that has to be PCI-E and not PCI, I'd probably wouldn't get that Asus board. Given that many AGP cards eat up the adjacent PCI slot, the layout of that board restricts you to a single PCI slot. Since there are very few cards out there that fit in the PCI-E 1x slot on that board, it's pretty useless for most users.

As for a mobo recommendation, I'm waiting for more reviews to come out for ATI's solution. In particular, I'm trying to find an excuse to build an A64 box with MSI's RS480M2-IL. Unfortunately I'll probably have to wait until PCI-E graphics cards come down in price.

 

[bluemax]

WARNING! WARNING!

Many of the MicroATX cases you're considering have only HALF HEIGHT expansion slots! This will make fancy video and sound cards almost impossible.

Also;

If you're considering one of those Shuttle/Soltek/QBic Small Form Factor (SFF) systems, you won't need a motherboard. These bosses come with case, special mini-motherboards and specific CPU coolers that are among the best out there.

Many are extremely quiet, some are not.

Visit Sudhian Forums to ask questions as to noise of those SFF systems. Anandtech has a SFF area but it's not quite the same dedicated community... yet.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys, keep it coming After digging up some reviews on the Antec Aria, it looks like it has real problems with cooling. Given that I'm looking on dropping an Athlon 64 3000+ into it, I think that it is possibly not the best solution. A real pity, since I really dig the styling and the dimensions. The reviews I've read mention that a Dremel and some mod webbing near the CPU would help, but I've never done any case modding, so I'm highly reluctant to try it. I will be sure to take a look at the forums and the other cases you guys mention.

Another factor here is price and customizability as well; from what I've seen, Shuttle seems to build everything onto the motherboard, which is great, but they're also more expensive (by a factor of 2 in some cases, I hear) and proprietary (i.e., if I want to upgrade later, I won't be able to swap in a new PCIe or AGP card, or what have you). I also find their styling a little bland.

 

[Traire]

Originally posted by: jethroqwalrustitty
(i.e., if I want to upgrade later, I won't be able to swap in a new PCIe or AGP card, or what have you). I also find their styling a little bland.

Most Shuttle boxes come with at least one PCI and one AGP slot. Of course, the new nF4 version will probably have one PCI and one PCIe slot.

Price wise, if you consider the cost of a good motherboard ($75-100) The cost of a good case ($75-100) and the cost of a good CPU cooler ($25-40) your talking about $175-240 for everything. So that puts the Shuttle about $60-125 more expensive than putting it together yourself, and the Shuttle will be smaller and cooler and probably quieter than what you could probably do on your own.

And while the Shuttle styling my not be to your tastes, there are other companies like Biostar, Soltek, Asus, and others with similar setups but may have more appealing style.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Traire: Hmm, intriguing. How do the these proprietary motherboards perform as compared to, say, this Asus mATX? I've always considered Asus and Abit to make more or less gold-standard AMD boards; only in my latest system have I deviated from their products, dropping in an Epox 8kha+ (haven't upgraded in like 2.5 years )

 

[Zepper]

The Aria has a proprietary PSU too and the Shuttle SFF cases are actually barebones with both mobo and PSU being included and proprietary.
. Take another look at the Enermax Venus series. Probably the most compact uATX case that comes with a decent, standard form factor PSU (which costs about $50 all by itself) and takes full-sized add-on cards. I sent a message to the author of the THG review on points I disagree with, but I haven't heard back and don't expect to ("writers/journalists" are some of the most juvenile people you'll ever run across) - the PSU is NOT weak - up to 20Amps on the +12. If you can find a stronger SFX size PSU from a decent brand name, let me know. The Venus has become my benchmark for a compact uATX case.
. Some of the InWin and maybe some the AOpen minitowers for microATX come with full sized ATX PSUs. Those are more compact than the normal tower but larger than the Enermax. Some of the InWin come with the strongest PSU I've seen in a uATX case (other than the Aria) - 300W. And being std size, you can easily bump up if needed and sell or closet the OE PSU for an emergency backup - it's better than most PSUs that come with cases.

.bh.

:moon:

 

[Silversierra]

Aria + http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-485&depa=1. Sweet htpc.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Thanks again for all the advice. I am taking another hard look at the Enermax Venus, and I have to admit it's growing on me. I don't think I'll need a more powerful PSU than 270W; while this system will be my primary rig (not a HTPC), I upgrade a generation or two behind the curve, and this system will definitely be leaner than my current rig. If it helps any of you make recommendations, here is my rough plan:

CPU: ~3.0GHz (Not decided on Athlon vs. P4, but Athlons seem to suck less power, run cooler, and be cheaper)
RAM: 1GB RAM
HD: 60GB 7200RPM, xferred from current system
Sound: Audigy MP3+, xferred.
Optical: DVD/CD-RW combo
3.5" / 2nd 5.4" bay : Card reader (undecided if I will transfer my floppy. Might as well if there are enough PS connectors)
Video card... I will go with an ATI (I have an illogical distaste for nVidia cards), better than a 9600XT but worse than an X800, pretty much depends on price/performance sweet spot (also will restrict my m/b choices) ;D. I'd like the rig to be able to run things like Doom3 and HL2 at reasonable quality with few/no hiccups, so I figure the 9600XT is a good baseline minimum.

This combination seems like it would heavily tax the Antec's cooling power, but the Enermax looks like it would be able to handle it better, at least with a fan addition/replacement. I do tend to run my systems for long periods of time under load, so cooling is important as well as quietness.

Again, thank you all for your help, and I am actively researching whatever you tell me, so please keep it coming ;D

 

[Silversierra]

How do the cd-dvd drives work in cases like the Venus? Wouldn't the disk fall out when you try to put it in?(being vertical mounted) Do you need a special drive?

 

[Zepper]

Most opticals work either vert or hori. There are a couple of little ears that hold the disk in place while the tray moves in and out. The disk is clamped to a cone-shaped centering spindle when it is operating and never touches the tray again 'til it's time to eject. Some, to operate vert, need to be mounted a certain side down.
.bh.

:moon:

 

[L00PY]

If you pop open your CD drive now, you'll probably see little tabs on the edge of tray that keep it in place. I've gotten really cheap drives without them though.

Also, depending on your usage, you might want the orientation of the optical drive like the Venus. In particular, a mini-tower on its side looks a lot better as a HTPC than it does standing up. mATX mini towers also tend to take up a lot less room on your desktop whether standing up or on their side.

Oh yeah, another thing to look at when comparing cases is the PSU form factor. The Silverstone I have uses a TFX form factor -- a pain in the butt to find. The Venus uses a SFX PSU (and one of the nicer ones out there). Many cases use a mATX PSU and some larger mATX cases can actually fit a standard ATX PSU.

 

[jethroqwalrustitty]

Another few questions/comments:

1) I've decided that a 754 chipset motherboard is probably better for me, along with an AGP video card as opposed to PCI-E, since this solution seems eminently more cost-effective. After doing a search for 754 / mATX / 0 PCI-e slot motherboards on Newegg, it came up with 3 options, 2 FoxConns (760GXK8MB-ERS and 760GXK8MB-RS) and an AOpen (s760GXm-S). The price differences are negligible, but I am leaning towards the AOpen because of the slower RAM support and the brand name, admittedly. Are there any other 754 motherboards I should be aware of that possibly didn't get turned up by my search, or any opininons on these two?

2) If anyone out there *has* an Enermax Venus case... is the "Venus" badge really cemented on there, or can I peel/pry it off? Because that is really the one thing that bugs me about the case, is that foofy looking badge.

(Edit)

3) Also, if anyone with a Venus case can speak to its cooling ability, I'd appreciate it.

(I'm also still considering picking up a Shuttle barebones, it is really the styling and expandability that is pulling me to a DIY rig).