Michigan builds Green Zone Solar Canopy, charges your electric car

[Bateluer]

In a blistering fast 4 hours.
http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/news/story.aspx?id=624850

GRAND BLANC -- The Al Serra Auto Plaza in Grand Blanc has opened the nation’s first electric car charging station.

They’re calling it the “Green Zone Solar Canopy,” and it is designed to charge cars like the new Chevrolet Volt.

The canopy has 12 stations, and charges vehicles in 4 hours.

It really is a win, win, win. It helps us, quite frankly, because it helps reduce our operating costs. It helps the customer be able to reduce their cost by getting their vehicle charged here, and it reduces our carbon footprint” General Manager Denny Dunfield told NBC25 Tuesday morning.

The state-of-the-art system was designed and developed especially for general motors by Sunlogics. The company says the canopy “will produce up to 36,000 kW hours per year and has the capacity to charge the Volt car approximately 4,500 times.”

The nation’s second charging station is expected to open in California soon.

Ack, my home state is brain dead. Somehow, I don't think its going to get much use if the handful of Volt owners need 4 hours to charge. Maybe something like this would make sense outside of an amusement park, a mall, or some other entertainment venue where people would be occupied for several hours. But I'm not going to park my shiny new Volt at the auto dealer for 4 hours to charge it. I know you could easily spend all day at a dealership looking at cars, buying a car, getting paperwork ironed out, etc, but they've already bought the car.

 

[BeauJangles]

Until they can agree on and develop a rapid-charge standard, I don't see how many people will ditch regular cars for electric.

 

[Jaskalas]

4 hours.... I'm thinking your car is more than charged at work.

 

[ElFenix]

Until they can agree on and develop a rapid-charge standard, I don't see how many people will ditch regular cars for electric.

i think we'll just go back to families having a commuter car and a family car. 100 miles electric range is enough for probably 98% of daily use.

 

[PeshakJang]

And still, even after this, and even after the massive government subsidies paid directly to the consumer/GM, it makes zero economic sense to buy a Volt. Facts are facts.

 

[BeauJangles]

And still, even after this, and even after the massive government subsidies paid directly to the consumer/GM, it makes zero economic sense to buy a Volt. Facts are facts.

And it made zero economic sense to buy a CD player when they first came out. What is your point?

 

[PeshakJang]

And it made zero economic sense to buy a CD player when they first came out. What is your point?

Would anybody have bought a CD player if it performed worse than cassette tapes in all applicable metrics of comparison?

I'll rephrase my statement to make it more clear for you:

There are zero rational arguments for purchasing a Volt.

If you disagree, please, allow me to destroy whatever arguments you may have.

 

[Zebo]

Until they can agree on and develop a rapid-charge standard, I don't see how many people will ditch regular cars for electric.

They need standardized hot swappables like with a fork lift and you rent the battery per "fill up". Electro chemistry and battery membranes makes it impossible to fill up quick.

 

[werepossum]

In a blistering fast 4 hours.
http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/news/story.aspx?id=624850



Ack, my home state is brain dead. Somehow, I don't think its going to get much use if the handful of Volt owners need 4 hours to charge. Maybe something like this would make sense outside of an amusement park, a mall, or some other entertainment venue where people would be occupied for several hours. But I'm not going to park my shiny new Volt at the auto dealer for 4 hours to charge it. I know you could easily spend all day at a dealership looking at cars, buying a car, getting paperwork ironed out, etc, but they've already bought the car.

This. At many places this would be quite cool, but not at a car dealer.

On the other hand, if the economics can be made to work, then a company with secure parking away from the building (and any other available power) which needs a smallish fleet of cars for predominantly urban driving during the day could find this quite useful. But if power is available at the parking, then it makes a lot more sense to power the chargers from the grid and use the money to provide a metered photo-voltaic power station connected to the grid. That way the solar cells are always making you money when the sun shines rather than only when your Volt needs a charge.

 

[ElFenix]

This. At many places this would be quite cool, but not at a car dealer.

On the other hand, if the economics can be made to work, then a company with secure parking away from the building (and any other available power) which needs a smallish fleet of cars for predominantly urban driving during the day could find this quite useful. But if power is available at the parking, then it makes a lot more sense to power the chargers from the grid and use the money to provide a metered photo-voltaic power station connected to the grid. That way the solar cells are always making you money when the sun shines rather than only when your Volt needs a charge.

like hybrids, electric power probably makes a lot more sense for things like city buses than personal transport. buses have much more space for batteries and most of them are in use only during peak hours in stop and go traffic.

 

[Ape]

lol 4 hours.

Gas car from Miami to NYC - 22 hrs

Electric car same trip - 60 hrs

Uh, lol

 

[Bateluer]

lol 4 hours.

Gas car from Miami to NYC - 22 hrs

Electric car same trip - 60 hrs

Uh, lol

That trip should be flown, not driven.

 

[Ape]

That trip should be flown, not driven.

I don't want TSA agents emailing photos of my pee pee of feeling up my junk.

 

[Bateluer]

I don't want TSA agents emailing photos of my pee pee of feeling up my junk.

Point taken.

 

[Bateluer]

Which AT'er is going to drive their Nissan LEAF to the GM dealership for a charge?

 

[Doppel]

Almost reads like a The Onion article.

Yes, does make sense at one's employment or amusement park or similar. These problems with charge times are going to be major ones for electric cars and is why until they get much, much better ranges they will only be useful as a family's second city-only car. Still a huge potential use (most of our substantial miles are lots of short trips).

They need standardized hot swappables like with a fork lift and you rent the battery per "fill up". Electro chemistry and battery membranes makes it impossible to fill up quick.

So if I go to a gas station and it's swapping out batteries at, say, twice the rate people normally fill up with gas (being very generous and giving the car a 200 mile range), who is charging these now-empty batteries? The "gas station" would damn near have to have a nuclear generator on premises to pump enough watts to charge up the batteries it just grabbed.

There is no practical way an electric car can be used as a long distance vehicle right now or in the conceivable future. The only way to allow it to happen is with gas backup, like the Volt. Which serves that purpose well but the rest of the time, when you're not visiting the outlaws, the car has cost a great deal more than a non gas-backup one (e.g. Leaf) and at least so far has a much worse range.

Even if the fast-charge of a leaf, which I think is 30 min now for 80% charge, is brought down to 10 min--and that is a time I think people would tolerate waiting (albeit not every hour as they would need to, but every 5-6 like they are normally used to requiring fillups on a trip)--no gas station or similar can possibly charge that many cars at the same time without major upgrades to its electric abilities.

I think we'll continue to need gas in either hybrid or onboard generator modes for the long distant future, that is unless/until hydrogen cars don't cost huge amounts (plus we have their infrastructure). Even if battery tech is better and a leaf can do 600 miles a house with a 240 Volt receptacle would still take too long to charge it.

 

[wuliheron]

The latest advances in batteries and super capacitors make 4 hours an eternity. Within the next couple of years you'll see cellphones come out that recharge in seconds and laptops that recharge in minutes. There's no reason electric cars can't eventually recharge at least 70% within the same amount of time it now takes to fill your gas tank.

 

[PeshakJang]

These problems with charge times are going to be major ones for electric cars and is why until they get much, much better ranges they will only be useful as a family's second city-only car. Still a huge potential use (most of our substantial miles are lots of short trips).

If you bought a Volt today, and only used it for city driving, under 100% optimal conditions, utilizing its maximum electric-only range twice per day, with no gas consumption whatsoever, and fully charging it after each complete use, it would still take you over 5 years to reach break-even for the premium you paid over a Prius. This is even after the massive government direct-subsidy payments, with best-price estimates used, and assuming $4.00/gallon regular gas.

If you even use 1 gallon of gasoline per day, it will double your recovery time to over 10 years.

If you want to speak in terms of financing, you also lose another $7,000 or so in present-value terms, more than destroying any cost savings.

Meanwhile, you could buy a Prius, drive it as much as you want, spend at least $15,000 less, and not have to worry about charging for 4 hours, or having to buy premium fuel (Yes, the Volt runs on premium)

You could also be satisfied the fact that the Prius emits fewer hydrocarbons than the Volt.

The Volt is nothing but a government-paid-for, falsely hyped, worthless piece of shit, with your tax dollars being directly responsible for every penny in GM's profit.

 

[Drako]

The latest advances in batteries and super capacitors make 4 hours an eternity. Within the next couple of years you'll see cellphones come out that recharge in seconds and laptops that recharge in minutes. There's no reason electric cars can't eventually recharge at least 70% within the same amount of time it now takes to fill your gas tank.

And what are these "latest advances in batteries" that you speak of?

 

[Doppel]

The latest advances in batteries and super capacitors make 4 hours an eternity. Within the next couple of years you'll see cellphones come out that recharge in seconds and laptops that recharge in minutes. There's no reason electric cars can't eventually recharge at least 70% within the same amount of time it now takes to fill your gas tank.

Eventually that's probably true but not any time soon.

The Volt is nothing but a government-paid-for, falsely hyped, worthless piece of shit, with your tax dollars being directly responsible for every penny in GM's profit.

In its current incarnation I agree. It's also selling like crap, either people don't want them or they aren't making them (GM), but on wikipedia you can see their sales and they're abysmal. Also, if you start a trip with a fully charged Volt and a trip with a Prius at about 60 miles you hit break-even point for fuel cost (at current gas prices) with any subsequent miles being cheaper on the Prius. The Prius is a far better car now, with a mature and proven and quite inexpensive technology. The Volt may get better but it's also possible it will be put to sleep before it has a chance to ever become relevant. Tt's too damn expensive, its range sucks too much, and it guzzles gas when past its charge.

 

[werepossum]

Eventually that's probably true but not any time soon.In its current incarnation I agree. It's also selling like crap, either people don't want them or they aren't making them (GM), but on wikipedia you can see their sales and they're abysmal. Also, if you start a trip with a fully charged Volt and a trip with a Prius at about 60 miles you hit break-even point for fuel cost (at current gas prices) with any subsequent miles being cheaper on the Prius. The Prius is a far better car now, with a mature and proven and quite inexpensive technology. The Volt may get better but it's also possible it will be put to sleep before it has a chance to ever become relevant. Tt's too damn expensive, its range sucks too much, and it guzzles gas when past its charge.

Count on most Volts being purchased by government. That said, the Prius really needs a plug-in battery pack standard (they are already available as replacement battery packs) and a more powerful electric-only capacity - although the last in particular might also bring some of the Volt's disadvantages. The Prius already has some limited urban battery-only drivability, as long as you accelerate very slowly and stay below 30 or 35 mph. Personally I want a hybrid 4wd five-passenger SUV with 50 mph/50 mile all-electric performance and 1,500 lb towing capacity - although when someone makes it I likely won't be able to afford it!

I've been reading about super capacitors for literally decades. Problem is that devices which are good at slowly discharging like to slowly charge and devices good at quickly charging also like to quickly discharge.

 

[dmcowen674]

Until they can agree on and develop a rapid-charge standard,

I don't see how many people will ditch regular cars for electric.

Have you seen or driven a Tesla?

It's back ordered so hard to get one and it's $100,000, goes 200 miles between charges and is fast.

All you rich Republicans should be on that waiting list.

 

[Doppel]

Count on most Volts being purchased by government. That said, the Prius really needs a plug-in battery pack standard (they are already available as replacement battery packs) and a more powerful electric-only capacity - although the last in particular might also bring some of the Volt's disadvantages. The Prius already has some limited urban battery-only drivability, as long as you accelerate very slowly and stay below 30 or 35 mph. Personally I want a hybrid 4wd five-passenger SUV with 50 mph/50 mile all-electric performance and 1,500 lb towing capacity - although when someone makes it I likely won't be able to afford it!

I've been reading about super capacitors for literally decades. Problem is that devices which are good at slowly discharging like to slowly charge and devices good at quickly charging also like to quickly discharge.

Plug in Prius comes out in 2012 or end of this year. Its range is less than the Volt but it should be much, much cheaper, and far superior when running on gas. I think it will put the final nail in the coffin of those who defend the Volt over the Prius, they'll more or less be caught with their pants down and no way to pretend otherwise.

 

[Doppel]

Have you seen or driven a Tesla?

It's back ordered so hard to get one and it's $100,000, goes 200 miles between charges and is fast.

All you rich Republicans should be on that waiting list.

Most of your posts are trolling and at lesat 50% talk about "rich republicans", which you categorize whoever you're responding to as being. How are you still allowed to post?

 

[dawp]

I guess it depends on where the dealership is located. If it's in a location where it has a lot of thing around it, it may work. If where it's at there isn't much, then probably not. They may end up using this for their own cars, such as loaners and for sale volts.