Originally posted by: tk149
Do YOU understand the difference between INVESTIGATION and CONVICTION?
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
If buying a nice vehicle suddently becomes grounds to tap your phone, then I'd have issues.
You guys do realize, that if someone is considered to be "under investigation", then LEO can now tap your phones, and even your friends and family member's phones, without a warrant, I believe. You can also seemingly be "under investigation" for a virtually indefinate amount of time, as there is nothing similar (that I am aware of) like the "Writ of Habeus Corpus" in order to obtain freedom from detention if there are no legal charges being pressed. Meanwhile, you feel constantly harassed as LEO follows you everywhere.
So yes, ViperGTS, this would likely allow that.
Originally posted by: Eli
That's just the thing, they DO NOT do that. For all they know, you've just bought a welder and you're working on a project.
Our electricity usage spiked 600kWh from normal last month because we were using a couple of 500W halogen lights while working on our cars a lot at night.
The utility companies are in no way tied in with the local PD. They are a business. As long as you're paying them for what you use, what do they care?
But as corporations merge, both amongst themselves (aggregate corporate monopoly of an entire industry), as well as intermingled with gov't, along the same lines as "know your customer" banking guidelines and laws, then that
will also happen. In fact, all companies that hire people, copies of those job application records are all sent off to some gov't dept., where they are fed into a computer system looking for anomolies and correlations. I wouldn't be too surprised if, in the future, all of a citizen's interactions with all (corporate, at least) private parties, are all monitored by those corporations, in conjunction and as a favor to LEO. Of course the corporations in question would also get some quid-pro-quo arrangements from the gov't for their "voluntary participation" in such schemes as well.
What will eventually happen, is LEO is no longer enforcing the actual laws, but in fact, "patterns of normalcy", and eventually everyone that "doesn't fit the mold", will be driven out of the country, or locked up permanently, or killed. Things like "profiling", in the "interests of security" are already the first step in that direction.
If you thought that a certain political party in Germany was "ruthless and efficient" - how are today's corporations any different, really? And if they gain control over the gov't, what will likely happen?
Heck, I got hassled by the local cops walking home from HS, just because I had long hair. I was like, "WTF?" I was actually far more "law-abiding" and "decent" than half of the clean-cut, richy-rich kids that I went to school with, that actually did so many crazy and potentially law-breaking things, like underage drinking and whatnot. Sure, if you were to judge me purely on looks, you probably wouldn't have known that, but I was actually "the good kid". Strange how I seem to be the one to be persecuted more often than not. The sad fact of life is, looks do matter, and everyone is judged more on appearance, subconciously, than on anything else. In life, love, jobs, legal issues - everything. It's a sad fact of life, and one of the grave downsides of the human race, one that is rarely if ever spoken of in a truely candid manner.
Originally posted by: Eli
This is exactly what I mean. The VERY first thing that happens, is that someone calls in a tip. Somehow, the local PD has to be tipped off.
They can't just run and grab your electric bill at that point, though. They may then bring a drug dog into the area. If he alerts them to the presence of drugs, THEN they have enough evidence to subpeona your utility records.
They don't just look at it by itself, they compare it to all your neighbors. If your bill is significantly higher, they investigate further- could it be that they have electric heat, etc, etc.
If after they've checked all that out, it is abnormal, they probably have enough to get a warrant and bust your ass.
But it still all boils down to that one action, an informant. They do not just meddle in everybodys privacy automatically....
Uhm, that kind of naively assumes that they don't, or at least won't, at some point, have a computer system "automatically scanning" things like utility bills, 24x7, looking for these sorts of things. The technology-impared courts might actually allow such things too, based on the argument that since a human is not directly doing the searching, then it's not a violation of "due process", even though in practice it really is. All the LEO agency has to do is claim that it might "improve catching terrorists", and they'll probably allow it. Kind of like those computer-vision camera scanning systems that were to be installed in some places, to "detect terrorists" or not.
Originally posted by: Eli
Using electricity in any quantity is not a crime.
"Living outside the lines" shouldn't be any more illegal than "painting outside the lines". It should be someone's personal choice how they live their lives, no matter how unusual their habits may be - so long as they don't actually violate the law and the rights of other citizens. Live and let live - don't make unnecessary and fascist/authoritarian judgements on others. That's how I think it should be.
