mercedez-benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi caught in diesel scandel

[waggy]

i looked (not hard) for the other thread. but figured it should be on it's own..

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/oct/09/mercedes-honda-mazda-mitsubishi-diesel-emissions-row?CMP=twt_gu

Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi have joined the growing list of manufacturers whose diesel cars are known to emit significantly more pollution on the road than in regulatory tests, according to data obtained by the Guardian.


oh shit..so who thinks this is going to kill diesel tech?

 

[soundforbjt]

"Clean diesel" is like "Clean coal", it only exists in the minds of those selling/marketing it.

Edit: and those gullible enough to fall for the marketing ploys.

 

[theeedude]

I hope it does for passenger cars, and forces more emission controls for commercial vehicles. It's pretty clear that clean diesel is a scam.
My view is, force diesel to meet strict NOx emissions in everyday driving, not by bending or breaking the rules. Let them figure out what it costs, and if it makes sense to do it. All I know is now I can not only smell a "clean diesel" when I bike by one, but it irritates my lungs.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Time to go electric. I'm shopping Tesla's model S for my next car.

Loving my hybrid more and more every day. So glad I didn't buy a VW TDI.

 

[disappoint]

"Clean diesel" is like "Clean coal", it only exists in the minds of those selling/marketing it.

Are you joking? The ones selling/marketing aren't the ones that were fooled, but rather it's the customers that were fooled by the marketing.

So:

"Clean diesel" is like "Clean coal", it only exists in the minds of those fooled by ads.

FTFY

 

[Anubis]

Are you joking? The ones selling/marketing aren't the ones that were fooled, but rather it's the customers that were fooled by the marketing.

So:

I drive a diesel and its not because I had any illusions about it being clean

 

[soundforbjt]

Are you joking? The ones selling/marketing aren't the ones that were fooled, but rather it's the customers that were fooled by the marketing.

So:



FTFY

So, I left that part out because I figured it was a given that most consumers were gullible.

 

[master_shake_]

All the diesel cars passed the EU’s official lab-based regulatory test (called NEDC), but the test has failed to cut air pollution as governments intended because carmakers designed vehicles that perform better in the lab than on the road. There is no evidence of illegal activity, such as the “defeat devices” used by Volkswagen.

so everyone but volkswagen made one car that would pass once.

volkswagen made cars that would pass every time.

volkswagen is the real hero.

 

[PokerGuy]

Time to go electric. I'm shopping Tesla's model S for my next car.

Loving my hybrid more and more every day. So glad I didn't buy a VW TDI.

haha, yes, everyone can go out and buy a $70,000 vehicle

With the price of gas hovering around $2,20 , I'm thrilled I didn't waste money on some hybrid or econobox garbage. Maybe when gas prices inevitably go through the roof again in a few years I'll re-evaluate, but right now it makes no sense from an economics perspective to even consider electric or hybrid. Non economic factors (environment etc), sure, but not economic.

 

[Fern]

I think it's important to note that, unlike VW, these companies are not accused of cheating etc.

The lab tests do not match real world driving. Who'da thunk it?

Fern

 

[shira]

Here's an interesting question:

Has anyone compared the real-world emissions levels of gasoline-engine autos with emissions-test levels?

 

[Jhhnn]

I hope it does for passenger cars, and forces more emission controls for commercial vehicles. It's pretty clear that clean diesel is a scam.
My view is, force diesel to meet strict NOx emissions in everyday driving, not by bending or breaking the rules. Let them figure out what it costs, and if it makes sense to do it. All I know is now I can not only smell a "clean diesel" when I bike by one, but it irritates my lungs.

It needs to be said that modern diesels are much, much cleaner than they were 20 years ago particularly wrt soot. NOX is much more difficult to control in diesels but even there emissions from modern diesels are much improved.

It also needs to be said that diesel is much safer in large fleet operations like transit buses because of the very high flash point of diesel fuel. That's particularly true in large storage barns.

Commercial vehicles are seldom modified, something not true of diesel pickups at all. When you encounter a particularly stinky one it's probably been modified for Moar Powar!

Diesels have their own issues particularly in cold climates. If your diesel won't start when you crawl out of a Breckenridge bar at 2 AM & 25 below zero, don't say nobody warned you.

 

[OverVolt]

Mazda is tied to ford correct?

 

[realibrad]

Mazda is tied to ford correct?

Yes.

 

[Pneumothorax]

haha, yes, everyone can go out and buy a $70,000 vehicle

With the price of gas hovering around $2,20 , I'm thrilled I didn't waste money on some hybrid or econobox garbage. Maybe when gas prices inevitably go through the roof again in a few years I'll re-evaluate, but right now it makes no sense from an economics perspective to even consider electric or hybrid. Non economic factors (environment etc), sure, but not economic.

I've never seen a Tesla go for that low. No one buys the base model...

 

[Humpy]

I drive a diesel and its not because I had any illusions about it being clean

You like rollin' the coal? :|

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[Humpy]

Mazda is tied to ford correct?

Was.

 

[Humpy]

Out of every barrel of oil comes a gas fraction and a diesel fraction.

Derp.

Thats why diesel and gas always have a variable price ratio depending on the demand for one or the other. Gas demand fell more than diesel demand.

Don't derp me bro. The lesson wasn't needed (this time).

I just like the imagery of rolling coal. :|

 

[OverVolt]

Don't derp me bro. The lesson wasn't needed (this time).

I just like the imagery of rolling coal. :|

Oh sorry you should never derp a bro!

 

[Humpy]

Oh sorry you should never derp a bro!

I actually thought I was posting in ATOT for some reason and was playing around. Still, not derping a bro is good practice for all of us.

 

[chucky2]

Here's an interesting question:

Has anyone compared the real-world emissions levels of gasoline-engine autos with emissions-test levels?

The better question would be: Why did CARB when developing LEV III, knowing how much ultrafine emissions GDI engines produced and their continuing deployment to the field from various manufacturers, and given how stringent they want those super dirty diesels to cleanup, decide to not require particle limits like the EU6 regulations instituted?

We know CARB doesn't want Clean Diesel to succeed (not because it's dirty/"dirty", but because it massively undercuts the long term goal of electrification), but one would think they'd at least apply the same zeal to GDI given the ultrafine particles they're puking out. Strange strange behavior...

 

[realibrad]

Was.

Ford still owns 2.1% of Mazda. They are still partners of information and have joint ventures in China.

 

[Humpy]

Ford still owns 2.1% of Mazda. They are still partners of information and have joint ventures in China.

Wikipedia?

That Ford had control of Mazda for a while compared to almost nothing now was more my point.

 

[realibrad]

Wikipedia?

That Ford had control of Mazda for a while compared to almost nothing now was more my point.

His question was if Ford was tied to Mazda and it is through stock ownership and joint ventures. Ford is no longer in control of Mazda, but its still tied to them no doubt.