Memos: Ford made Explorer roof weaker

[Analog]

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0503/29/A01-132711.htm

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- When 26-year-old Claire Duncan died of a fractured skull after a severe rollover accident in her 2000 Ford Explorer, her family wanted answers.

Their questions about how the SUV's roof caved in led to a lawsuit and ultimately a trial this month that uncovered internal Ford Motor Co. documents and memos that raise serious questions about the Explorer's roof and the automaker's contention that stronger vehicle roofs do not prevent deaths and injuries in rollovers.

On March 18, a Jacksonville, Fla., jury ruled the Explorer's roof was defective and ordered Ford to pay Duncan's husband $10.2 million for economic damages, pain and suffering.

Company documents shown to the jury revealed the Explorer's roof was made weaker when the SUV was redesigned twice in the 1990s -- after engineers recommended strengthening the roof earlier in the decade. Duncan's lawyers also used internal company memos that show Ford's Volvo subsidiary considered roof strength critical to protecting passengers in rollover crashes.

The Explorer's roof exceeds federal safety standards, said Ford spokeswoman Kathleen Vokes, adding that real-world crash data show the Explorer is a safe vehicle, with a comparable fatality rate to similar SUVs. The Explorer was completely redesigned for the 2002 model year, and the current version was not examined during the trial.

Ford plans to appeal the Duncan verdict.

Vokes said Claire Duncan's crash was caused by a reckless RV driver, and her injuries would have been fatal even if the roof had not collapsed.

"Rollover events, real-world crash data and a wide variety of rollover-type testing have been investigated and analyzed for many years," Vokes said. "This work establishes that simply strengthening a roof will not affect the outcome of the crash for the simple reason that injury mechanics are not related to how much the roof is deformed in a rollover crash."

But it was the fourth time in less than 10 months that Ford has lost a jury trial in an Explorer rollover case.

 

[DotheDamnTHing]

just what ford needs

 

[ChrisIsBored]

Doesn't bother me, as long as more abnoxious people buy them it's a few less the rest of us have to deal with in life. :thumbsup:

 

[DaTT]

bS....especially if the strength meets or exceeds iindustry standards....

 

[theGlove]

so Ford tries to cut corners at the risk of their customers.......

 

[Toastedlightly]

so someone was greedy and wanted money... ok.

 

[Calin]

There are no industry standards that cover the strength of a car's roof. What some consider "industry standards" is what most of the players in the industry do.
Strengthening the roof will move the weight center a bit higher. However, I would choose a solid and heavy top over a light and flimsy one.
Hmmm, if the strength of the roof is of no concern in rollovers, then why all the rally car have the steel bar structure to support the car's top?

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Calin
There are no industry standards that cover the strength of a car's roof. What some consider "industry standards" is what most of the players in the industry do.
Strengthening the roof will move the weight center a bit higher. However, I would choose a solid and heavy top over a light and flimsy one.
Hmmm, if the strength of the roof is of no concern in rollovers, then why all the rally car have the steel bar structure to support the car's top?

I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

 

[rh71]

How about going well above standards so the roof doesn't cave in so easily, thus causing lawsuits and [more] bad press for their company ? How's that sound ?

At any rate, I'd like to know what goes through someone's mind when they receive something like $10.2mil after their wife dies... does he live a lavish lifestyle at her expense now ? Freaky.

 

[gscone]

Originally posted by: rh71
How about going well above standards so the roof doesn't cave in so easily, thus causing lawsuits and [more] bad press for their company ? How's that sound ?

At any rate, I'd like to know what goes through someone's mind when they receive something like $10.2mil after their wife dies... does he live a lavish lifestyle at her expense now ? Freaky.

Hi RH71!!

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: gscone
Hi RH71!!

wassup G funk.

 

[gscone]

Sorry to hijack this thread- but has anyone seen the new BMW M6's roof? Its fully carbon fiber....

 

[mobobuff]

This is getting ridiculous. Eventually the question to ask after you hear someone has died will be, "Who got sued for it?".

 

[Indolent]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

No, if there's more weight on top, that raises the center of gravity. It will tip easier.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

Yes, but you'd add even more weight to the SUV making it even more less fuel efficient. That's the downside of the push for greater fuel efficiency. You end up with lighter and less sturdier vehicles.

 

[PingSpike]

Good plan, now when some tardbag moron jerks the wheel 90 degrees at 70mph and flips the thing, they'll probably die instead of just being paralyzed. And dead people don't sue.

 

[geno]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

The more weight towards the top of the car = more topheavy

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

The more weight towards the top of the car = more topheavy

Which in turn raises the center of gravity and makes it more likely to roll. Evening it out on the top really won't do hardly anything. The only way to make the top heavier and not adversely affect the rollover would be to make the bottom heavier proportionally...or make the bottom wider without making the top wider.

Actually...now that I think about it...wouldn't spreading the weight out across the top actually make the problem worse?

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: gscone
Sorry to hijack this thread- but has anyone seen the new BMW M6's roof? Its fully carbon fiber....

That car is pure hotness.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

The more weight towards the top of the car = more topheavy

well that much is obvious, but it's not like it's disproportionately wider or its weight unevenly distributed at the top to make it tip. Again, you'd have to be practically already tipping over for that to have any effect (in my opinion)... and the argument was about strength of the roof vs. its weight. I'd rather have a stronger roof.

 

[Kilrsat]

Maybe Ford was onto something with that urban survival concept vehicle (http://www.ford-trucks.com/news/idx/12/..._TAKES_URBAN_LIVING_TO_NEW_LEVEL.html) they were showing off at the auto-shows. Seems like morons will sue them until all their vehicles look like that anyway.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: geno

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

The more weight towards the top of the car = more topheavy

well that much is obvious, but it's not like it's disproportionately wider or its weight unevenly distributed at the top to make it tip.

Even the up-armored Humvees in Iraq experienced problems when they were first introduced because they were so much heavier than before. Those were being rolled as well until soldiers learned and adjusted their driving habits.

The most dangerous component to any car is the driver.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
Maybe Ford was onto something with that urban survival concept vehicle (http://www.ford-trucks.com/news/idx/12/..._TAKES_URBAN_LIVING_TO_NEW_LEVEL.html) they were showing off at the auto-shows. Seems like morons will sue them until all their vehicles look like that anyway.

From the sounds of that, its just a ford festiva designed to look like a bank vault/truck combo. Its interesting, but is it actually "tough" in anything more than name?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Indolent

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: So
I'd rather have an explorer that is not top heavy and is therefore less likely to roll over.

If its weight is distributed evenly on both sides up there, wouldn't that also plant the car on the ground more ? You'd have to be tipping over a great deal already for the weight of a roof to tip it over even further.

No, if there's more weight on top, that raises the center of gravity. It will tip easier.

I'd rather tip over and live than tip over and die.