Melbourne archbishop says he'd rather go to jail than report child abuse heard in confession

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Mar 11, 2004
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My comments were referring to this:



It’s not a “one or the other” kind of thing...confessing to a priest doesn’t avoid any legal prosecution...

Do the folks who support locking up the priest also support locking up doctors/shrinks/ lawyers who don’t report crimes their clients/patients confess to them?

(FWIW, I do.)

Pretty sure doctors regularly do such (when its serious and an actual crime, FYI, taking drugs often isn't its the possession of them or doing other things while under the influence that is). I think shrinks also actually do such as well (although I think the common understanding is they're only required to if its a crime they think the person is going to commit, that's not actually the situation).

Oh and there's this:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/if-i-tell-psychologist-crime-i-committed-can-i-trouble.html
Child Abuse Exception
Many states have statutes requiring healthcare providers, including mental health professionals, to report any suspected abuse of children, elders, and dependent adults. So, in most cases, therapists who hear admissions of such abuse from patients not only can report their patients’ statements—they must.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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In any case, my argument is still valid, though the logic of a non-believer genuinely seeking Catholic Confession may cause a computer-like reaction in me rather like dividing by zero, and a non-genuine convert is a non-believer and a genuine convert is a True Believer.



Since that's the whole freaking point of confession, it's kinda relevant, don't you think? To honestly confess a deed implies commitment (so logically confessing is not relevant), however as I said already, the Catholic process of Confession obviously does not achieve its intended end. If it did millions could be saved in the criminal justice system: You can either confess then walk free or 'do the time'.

Since the evidence in stacked in favour of concluding that the Catholic process of Confession is a mindless ritual, then why on earth should it be considered to be above the law?

The more I think about Catholic Confession the more it disturbs me.

<--- also ex-catholic

It seems to me that when mulling over this act of confession, the practical side of me sees this act as a way for the Church to monitor the behaviors, beliefs and actions of their congregations and use this collated "data" to, among a host of other things, protect the Church from those dangers/other concerns that reveal themselves in these confessions.

Described in a more contemporary manner, the Church is comparable to the FBI as the confessional is comparable to the various social media that the FBI monitors searching for dangers or concerns of the State.
 

urvile

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2017
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BUT, confessing and getting forgiveness does not...and never has, absolved the sinner from any legal penalties for the "sin." It's meant only to get forgiveness from God...Man's laws still apply.

I don't buy into the religion bullshit...but I WAS raised around it, so I sort-of understand the mindset.

Except the sacredness of confession is a fantasy. Earthly professions are bound by ethics and professional codes of conduct to report criminal behaviour to the relevant authorities. Not facilitate it. Which the catholic church seems hell bent on doing.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
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Except the sacredness of confession is a fantasy. Earthly professions are bound by ethics and professional codes of conduct to report criminal behaviour to the relevant authorities. Not facilitate it. Which the catholic church seems hell bent on doing.

Confession to a priest in a confessional isn't a fantasy...but the alleged forgiveness that results from such a confession? Welp...I don't believe in such things, but to those who actually ARE believers...it's as real as the mountains, stars, and seas.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Id hate to be the priest that was confessed "im going to set off a nuclear bomb in downtown NYC next week" and then millions or people are killed because you felt the confession was sacred and above the law....
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Id hate to be the priest that was confessed "im going to set off a nuclear bomb in downtown NYC next week" and then millions or people are killed because you felt the confession was sacred and above the law....
I certainly hope that the Roman Catholic Church and the priest in question considers saving lives to be far more "sacred" then Confession.

I myself value human life and well-being, so my moral system requires me to take action to help preserve both of myself and others.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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If an individual tells their personal attorney that they committed a crime, is the attorney required to report it?
For example, if a mob boss who is in his lawyers office discussing a tax evasion case informs his attorney that he committed a murder 4 years ago, is the attorney required to report the crime?
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
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If an individual tells their personal attorney that they committed a crime, is the attorney required to report it?
For example, if a mob boss who is in his lawyers office discussing a tax evasion case informs his attorney that he committed a murder 4 years ago, is the attorney required to report the crime?
I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. On the other hand, if the Mob Boss told his lawyer that he is planning to kill someone or have them killed then the lawyer does to have report it.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. On the other hand, if the Mob Boss told his lawyer that he is planning to kill someone or have them killed then the lawyer does to have report it.


If the disclosure describes intention to commit then the lawyer can break client confidentiality.
If the crime is in the past, I'm not sure.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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True

If there was really a god then priests who rape kids should be his #1 priority. If anything was to get him off his impotent ass and force him to actually accomplish something it would be his own hand-picked representatives abusing his followers and besmirching his name. But he seems pretty chill about it. God used to kill millions of people just for complaining, now nothing raises his wrath. I wonder how he got over his anger issues.


"And then He partook of the ganja that He sewed upon this earth, and He saw that it was good."
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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I certainly hope that the Roman Catholic Church and the priest in question considers saving lives to be far more "sacred" then Confession.

I myself value human life and well-being, so my moral system requires me to take action to help preserve both of myself and others.

Hope all you want, but the Catholic doctrine here is clear. The seal of confession is sacrosanct. No exceptions.

This sort of thing underscores what is wrong with religion as a system of morality: it isn't one. It's a set of rules, often arbitrary. There is no moral reasoning involved because the deity has purportedly already done that for us.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Hope all you want, but the Catholic doctrine here is clear. The seal of confession is sacrosanct. No exceptions.

This sort of thing underscores what is wrong with religion as a system of morality: it isn't one. It's a set of rules, often arbitrary. There is no moral reasoning involved because the deity has purportedly already done that for us.
So if a if serial killer confesses that he enjoys raping and killing young women, and currently has plans to keep doing it, the priest isn't supposed to the break seal of confession to put a stop to it?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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So if a if serial killer confesses that he enjoys raping and killing young women, and currently has plans to keep doing it, the priest isn't supposed to the break seal of confession to put a stop to it?

AFAIK, the answer to that question is "no." Civil law may make exceptions to the clergyman-penitent privilege but there are no exceptions under Catholic doctrine. Hence the conflict here.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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AFAIK, the answer to that question is "no." Civil law may make exceptions to the clergyman-penitent privilege but there are no exceptions under Catholic doctrine. Hence the conflict here.
Is clergyman-penitent privilege even recognized in the US?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
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Is clergyman-penitent privilege even recognized in the US?

Yes it is. The rules vary from state to state. Generally, it applies to any confidential communications between clergyman and penitent, regardless of the religion. Some states may still require reporting of certain things, while others may not.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Yes it is. The rules vary from state to state. Generally, it applies to any confidential communications between clergyman and penitent, regardless of the religion. Some states may still require reporting of certain things, while others may not.
I would have thought that all States require the clergyman to report if a penitent is actively causing harm or intend to harm himself and/or others by now.